Ryanair & Storm McGinley
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Ryanair & Storm McGinley
Hi All,
Flightglobal has a (new?) ad for TR and NTR commanders with FR through SMcG. Dare I ask is this a new 'axis of evil' or an attempt to move on from the BRK debacle? Fully expecting to be 'flamed' from a great height. All input welcome,
Happy Christmas & Safe Flying in 2012
Flightglobal has a (new?) ad for TR and NTR commanders with FR through SMcG. Dare I ask is this a new 'axis of evil' or an attempt to move on from the BRK debacle? Fully expecting to be 'flamed' from a great height. All input welcome,
Happy Christmas & Safe Flying in 2012
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They are masters at divide and conquer and this is another trait.We stand to gain nothing from Ryanair's tactics only division of the pilot group and further decrease in conditions.
However we the Ryanair pilot group have something that cannot be beaten, something
that the civil rights movement in America in the 60's had, something the French resistance, Arab spring, Russian revolution and countless others had. Its called
SOLIDARITY !
EXERCISE YOUR BASIC CIVIL AND HUMAN RIGHT TO ORGANISE YOUR LABOUR!
JOIN IALPA!
However we the Ryanair pilot group have something that cannot be beaten, something
that the civil rights movement in America in the 60's had, something the French resistance, Arab spring, Russian revolution and countless others had. Its called
SOLIDARITY !
EXERCISE YOUR BASIC CIVIL AND HUMAN RIGHT TO ORGANISE YOUR LABOUR!
JOIN IALPA!
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The ad says the location is 'United kingdom'.
Same old same old. Any people upgrading can kiss good-bye to a UK base so.
It must be FR's bargaining tool for these DEC's. 'We will grant you your preferred base if you sign this rubbish deal'.So anyone upgrading currently can expect kaunus or wroclaw etc
The deal in itself is more divide and conquer. 135 per hour,not sure if this is before or after the sim deduction.Most likely before. However the new new BRK contract is for 145 per hour before sim deduction.
Aside from the above observations its now glaringly obvious that FR has ,or is about to have, huge crewing difficulties. The need for DEC's says it all. However the new annual leave mechanism is another example of rostering filling holes.My guess is that all bases that have a choice of only winter months are the bases most at risk during the summer if lads throw in a few resignations.Therefore a summer leave ban is imposed.
Same old same old. Any people upgrading can kiss good-bye to a UK base so.
It must be FR's bargaining tool for these DEC's. 'We will grant you your preferred base if you sign this rubbish deal'.So anyone upgrading currently can expect kaunus or wroclaw etc
The deal in itself is more divide and conquer. 135 per hour,not sure if this is before or after the sim deduction.Most likely before. However the new new BRK contract is for 145 per hour before sim deduction.
Aside from the above observations its now glaringly obvious that FR has ,or is about to have, huge crewing difficulties. The need for DEC's says it all. However the new annual leave mechanism is another example of rostering filling holes.My guess is that all bases that have a choice of only winter months are the bases most at risk during the summer if lads throw in a few resignations.Therefore a summer leave ban is imposed.
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Well one thing's for for sure, it's not going to be a step up for any Pilot concerned.
Hourly rate is EUR 10 less than the new 'New' Brookfield contract, although it's not clear if the EUR 4.50 for RST (Recurrent Sim T'ievery) is included. I see there are guaranteed minimum hours though....so that's a possible shafting for BRK pilots.
Before this thread gets obscured by the usual FR Pilot bashers, might I suggest the following link, where this topic is already being discussed:
REPA Members Sign In - Ryanair European Pilots Association
Please join REPA & IALPA.
Thanks.
Safe Flying!
PS. Storm McGinley sounds like a Male Porn Star....you're sure to get a right shaftin' too!
Hourly rate is EUR 10 less than the new 'New' Brookfield contract, although it's not clear if the EUR 4.50 for RST (Recurrent Sim T'ievery) is included. I see there are guaranteed minimum hours though....so that's a possible shafting for BRK pilots.
Before this thread gets obscured by the usual FR Pilot bashers, might I suggest the following link, where this topic is already being discussed:
REPA Members Sign In - Ryanair European Pilots Association
Please join REPA & IALPA.
Thanks.
Safe Flying!
PS. Storm McGinley sounds like a Male Porn Star....you're sure to get a right shaftin' too!
Last edited by 737 Jockey; 23rd Dec 2011 at 18:45. Reason: Little overlap from previous poster & to add humour!
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I would seriously warn those individuals thinking of applying to take a long hard think about what they are doing.
At present, there is a large number of pilots (from shiny FO's to Base Captains and TREs) who are leaving to go, well, anywhere else other than Ryanair. We have a massive crewing issue going forward into 2012 and this is their idea of shoring up the numbers so we won't get royally screwed. It won't work. People don't pack in their jobs and go to another continent without good reason, especially those in secure, senior training positions. If it were me, i'd want to ask those people why it's so bad they left, and wonder whether it is the sort of thing I want to get involved with.
If the advert is to be believed and you get first dibs on UK bases, then expect to be fully ostracised by the existing workforce and those waiting to come back to the UK as newly upgraded commanders. Between the number of people using REPA and joining IALPA, and the others who are leaving, does not leave many other people apart from FO's who have not been fully indoctrinated yet. The fact they Storm are offering 10 Euros per hour BELOW the existing rate given to Brookfield Captains should indicate what a perilous state of affairs the company is in, and the contempt to which they hold the workforce.
Of course, perhaps Ryanair DID offer more (not likely), and Storm are creaming off more as their cut, but then you need to look at the whole setup.
The whole thing stinks.
At present, there is a large number of pilots (from shiny FO's to Base Captains and TREs) who are leaving to go, well, anywhere else other than Ryanair. We have a massive crewing issue going forward into 2012 and this is their idea of shoring up the numbers so we won't get royally screwed. It won't work. People don't pack in their jobs and go to another continent without good reason, especially those in secure, senior training positions. If it were me, i'd want to ask those people why it's so bad they left, and wonder whether it is the sort of thing I want to get involved with.
If the advert is to be believed and you get first dibs on UK bases, then expect to be fully ostracised by the existing workforce and those waiting to come back to the UK as newly upgraded commanders. Between the number of people using REPA and joining IALPA, and the others who are leaving, does not leave many other people apart from FO's who have not been fully indoctrinated yet. The fact they Storm are offering 10 Euros per hour BELOW the existing rate given to Brookfield Captains should indicate what a perilous state of affairs the company is in, and the contempt to which they hold the workforce.
Of course, perhaps Ryanair DID offer more (not likely), and Storm are creaming off more as their cut, but then you need to look at the whole setup.
The whole thing stinks.
Last edited by MrHorgy; 23rd Dec 2011 at 22:24.
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It's interesting to see lots of Ryanair guys on here say "DON'T JOIN RYANAIR". I want to to hear from any pilots out there who would consider joining Ryanair and why. Almost three years ago a quote from senior management was "we have hired everybody worth hiring".....So where will the new DEC's come from!. I can fully understand if a pilot has no job and needs to work. A Ryanair job is better the no job ...just about. Although many Ryanair Brookfield contractors would have earned more on social welfare over the last 3 months than did did at Ryanair...(oh yeah you are not entitled to any social welfare as you are self employed and this in turn has helped ryanair avoid paying conributions). It should also be remembered that there was a very high attrition rate among NTR dec's last time around. No TRE/LTC lower standards for a DEC when high standards are expected of our Captains (just for the record the numbers getting into BA and Emirates demonstrate the integrity of the training department unlike the pikey bonus hunting management).....So please tell us why you want to join Ryanair ...the low pay airline....the Non existant Terms and Conditions airline...the airline everyone loves to hate (especially the employees ..sorry drones)....Tell us please !!
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Yes, I do wonder.
The last round of DEC had its fair share of guff. Guys with 1000s of 737 hours. Alleged training qualifications, backgrounds in both short and long haul operations. They weren't exactly cherished by the training department! Now Ryanair is not without it's faults, far frigging from it. However I for one am glad that some standards remain somewhere in this operation. Going forward, I hope this remains the case. I for one can't see anyone of any reasonable standard applying for this position. As doniedarko so rightly states, our beloved management claimed that they have hired everyone worth hiring!
If this recruitment doesn't go to plan, there are no more dice to throw for PB, DR et al.
The last round of DEC had its fair share of guff. Guys with 1000s of 737 hours. Alleged training qualifications, backgrounds in both short and long haul operations. They weren't exactly cherished by the training department! Now Ryanair is not without it's faults, far frigging from it. However I for one am glad that some standards remain somewhere in this operation. Going forward, I hope this remains the case. I for one can't see anyone of any reasonable standard applying for this position. As doniedarko so rightly states, our beloved management claimed that they have hired everyone worth hiring!
If this recruitment doesn't go to plan, there are no more dice to throw for PB, DR et al.
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Just as a footnote ...O'Leary cancelled the Christmas party years ago in the name of cost cutting !. (€550 million profit this year!). This year the miserable b**tard could not even bother to put up the "Thanks for all your efforts Happy Xmas " message on the internal company website. I really think Ryanair begrudge having employees or at least having to pay them 
.....and in an effort to be balanced an fair I have worked for RYR for a long time and you are always paid on time and the correct amount !
Happy Christmas to all.....now join a union
.....and in an effort to be balanced an fair I have worked for RYR for a long time and you are always paid on time and the correct amount ! Happy Christmas to all.....now join a union
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I think what you say donniedarko is very evident. There has been no usual christmas message from any of the management this year that spend their time beating us into shape all year.
It couldn't be more evident that they despise the pilot group for existing and especially that we made an effort as a group this year to be treated in the following year with fairness and with proper conditions not 28k a year for a pilot that has spent about 100k on training over a period of about 2-3 years.
ORGANISE YOUR LABOUR PEOPLE! IT IS YOUR HUMAN AND CIVIL RIGHT!
IF YOU DON'T EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS WHAT ARE THEY GOOD FOR!
JOIN IALPA AND MAKE NEXT YEAR A YEAR OF SOLIDARITY!
a proud IALPA member
It couldn't be more evident that they despise the pilot group for existing and especially that we made an effort as a group this year to be treated in the following year with fairness and with proper conditions not 28k a year for a pilot that has spent about 100k on training over a period of about 2-3 years.
ORGANISE YOUR LABOUR PEOPLE! IT IS YOUR HUMAN AND CIVIL RIGHT!
IF YOU DON'T EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS WHAT ARE THEY GOOD FOR!
JOIN IALPA AND MAKE NEXT YEAR A YEAR OF SOLIDARITY!
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What they despise is what it has cost them. Crewroom chit chat mentioned a figure of €500,000 last summer in out of base and off day payments. As more left, rostering plugged more holes. Now the cat has been let out of the bag. Some poor bastard has had to saunter into MOL's office and tell him he is ****** for Captains. I'm sure he is also aware of the pilots attempts to unify via REPA and IALPA. Christmas message.....he'd lace our hot waters with scianide if he could.
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Happy Christmas to MOL and Co. Enjoy it because it will be the last good one you will have. The sh1t will hit the fan next year and the shareholders will have you out on your smart cocky arse
two things strike me,
number one, it might say UK but I don't believe it. (read their website)
number two, REPA and IALPA need to point out to folk that all they will do by accepting these positions is enrich Storm McGinley. The structuring of this offer is heavily weighed against those who accept it. You could end up owing them or Ryanair money at the end of each month.
Good luck if you do...you will need it.
number one, it might say UK but I don't believe it. (read their website)
number two, REPA and IALPA need to point out to folk that all they will do by accepting these positions is enrich Storm McGinley. The structuring of this offer is heavily weighed against those who accept it. You could end up owing them or Ryanair money at the end of each month.
Good luck if you do...you will need it.
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Widered, I assume that in pursuit of a stronger union you are at very least a company rep if not a union official.
If conditions in Ryan are so appalling I would expect to hear calls for action (strike).
One must assume that people who are considering what are clearly poor contracts are in dire straits. There are a lot of people out there who are unemployed through no fault of their own. They need to feed their families and pay the bills. £64 a week jobseekers allowance won't go far!
You vociferously advocate that they join a union. If they do, what will your union do for them? Will it put food on their table? Will you activate the union members in your company to support them.
Or will you be faced with reluctance on the part of those who are on better T&Cs,not wishing to jeopardise their position? (I'm old enough, and been in the job long enough, to be cynical!)
I've seen how other pilot unions have behaved in the past, perhaps you and
your members will surprise me this time.
Surely you must have enough union members in the company now to really put pressure if you wanted to? Perhaps it's time to demonstrate to those you wish to recruit what your solidarity can achieve.
Good luck to those in work, and to those who are not, don't give up!
A safe 2012 to all.
If conditions in Ryan are so appalling I would expect to hear calls for action (strike).
One must assume that people who are considering what are clearly poor contracts are in dire straits. There are a lot of people out there who are unemployed through no fault of their own. They need to feed their families and pay the bills. £64 a week jobseekers allowance won't go far!
You vociferously advocate that they join a union. If they do, what will your union do for them? Will it put food on their table? Will you activate the union members in your company to support them.
Or will you be faced with reluctance on the part of those who are on better T&Cs,not wishing to jeopardise their position? (I'm old enough, and been in the job long enough, to be cynical!)
I've seen how other pilot unions have behaved in the past, perhaps you and
your members will surprise me this time.
Surely you must have enough union members in the company now to really put pressure if you wanted to? Perhaps it's time to demonstrate to those you wish to recruit what your solidarity can achieve.
Good luck to those in work, and to those who are not, don't give up!
A safe 2012 to all.
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Looking at the Storm advert on website 'airlinepilots.com' the figure is well below the 135Euro. they are stating a figure of 112.23 .Is that Euro? they are showing £60/hr . Surely not??????
I can only imagine this is attractive to pilots on Emb or Crj or Business jets and want to get on heavier jets.
I can only imagine this is attractive to pilots on Emb or Crj or Business jets and want to get on heavier jets.
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Flyingstig you raise so many points in one post that it may be difficult to cover all of them but I will try my best.
Firstly I am not a union official or a representative of IALPA, I am simply a Ryanair pilot who has been here long enough to understand the divisions between management and its employees or 'disguised employees' and the vindictiveness and ruthless nature of the way they treat their staff.
Ryanair operate their employee cost base on the basis that they use individual bargaining, we all have seen evidence of this. The divide and conquer method works better for them, we can see that in the recent sackings of pilots in their power display.
'You say that if conditions are so appalling in Ryanair why do we not hear calls for strike'.
Well firstly we do all the time on REPA however their can be no action without a strong majority of pilots joining the same union hence my calls for people to join and exercise their basic human and civil rights to organise their labour.
You say 'what will the union do for them? 'will it put food on their table'
The union is its members all we are looking for here is a fair working enviroment and decent conditions not to be pickpocketed by the company at any oppurtunity.
Of course the union won't put food on your table although I remember cases where they have. They will help you achieve collective barganing and all the benefits that this entails for its members, Ryanair's so called collective barganing on non elected ERC's is non existent and is a puppet show.
Pilot999 I wouldn't gloat so much that you got home for Christmas we have seen so many people who were not in a union being targeted by the company in a power display that failed by the way, people who have never been on REPA either.This company is ruthless and you may find yourself looking for protection from the same people that you dismiss so easily. A decrease in one pilot's terms is an attack on all our conditions and the future of everyones conditions can be seen in the new contracts for Captains.
My thoughts this Christmas and New Year is with Paul Ridgards family and the family of the 15 sacked contracters, Will you live your life always looking over your shoulder from an unfair employer or stand united with your colleagues for your rights?
JOIN IALPA
ORGANISE YOUR LABOUR! EXERCISE YOUR HUMAN AND CIVIL RIGHTS!
Firstly I am not a union official or a representative of IALPA, I am simply a Ryanair pilot who has been here long enough to understand the divisions between management and its employees or 'disguised employees' and the vindictiveness and ruthless nature of the way they treat their staff.
Ryanair operate their employee cost base on the basis that they use individual bargaining, we all have seen evidence of this. The divide and conquer method works better for them, we can see that in the recent sackings of pilots in their power display.
'You say that if conditions are so appalling in Ryanair why do we not hear calls for strike'.
Well firstly we do all the time on REPA however their can be no action without a strong majority of pilots joining the same union hence my calls for people to join and exercise their basic human and civil rights to organise their labour.
You say 'what will the union do for them? 'will it put food on their table'
The union is its members all we are looking for here is a fair working enviroment and decent conditions not to be pickpocketed by the company at any oppurtunity.
Of course the union won't put food on your table although I remember cases where they have. They will help you achieve collective barganing and all the benefits that this entails for its members, Ryanair's so called collective barganing on non elected ERC's is non existent and is a puppet show.
Pilot999 I wouldn't gloat so much that you got home for Christmas we have seen so many people who were not in a union being targeted by the company in a power display that failed by the way, people who have never been on REPA either.This company is ruthless and you may find yourself looking for protection from the same people that you dismiss so easily. A decrease in one pilot's terms is an attack on all our conditions and the future of everyones conditions can be seen in the new contracts for Captains.
My thoughts this Christmas and New Year is with Paul Ridgards family and the family of the 15 sacked contracters, Will you live your life always looking over your shoulder from an unfair employer or stand united with your colleagues for your rights?
JOIN IALPA
ORGANISE YOUR LABOUR! EXERCISE YOUR HUMAN AND CIVIL RIGHTS!
Last edited by widered; 27th Dec 2011 at 13:53.
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widered is very right! What many dont seem to understand is that Ryanair is also setting the future standard for the rest of the aviation industry. Other airlines copy elements of what Ryanair is doing. And you cant blame them. Ryanair is making 500 million profit in times of economical crisis.
People outside Ryanair dont realize the pilots struggle in Ryanair might one day influence their job as well and some pilots inside Ryanair dont seem to realize that although they know they will leave Ryanair some day that not fighting now might later still bite them.
Im not a big fan of unions at all, but come on, whats the alternative? The union is the lesser of two evils for sure here.
Some pilots in Ryanair keep quiet and dont support the union idea because they have what they want, like a base thats suits them, decent money, etc. But will this still be there next year, next week or tomorrow? And who will stop Ryanair from taking it away or closing a base? Therefore unity and a union is the only solution to put an end to Ryanair's illegal and inmoral practices. In my time in Ryanair it never ever got any better. They pretended it did, but if you look it didnt at all. And if the pilots wont do anything it will never change.
Forge the metal when its hot and it seems the metal is warmer than ever now
It seems Ryanair's game is coming to an end as they appear to have overplayed their hand and the funny thing is that they dont seem to even know what is still coming, because many pilots are hired somewhere else but havent resigned from Ryanair yet. The exodus wont stop! It only started and wont stop. And all that management is doing now with getting DEC's in, messing even more with the leave system and screwing with the BRK contracts will open the gates even more. Guaranteed! And also the possiblity with airlines in the Middle East possibly opening for DEC's in the future might turn Ryanair's bad dream in a total nightmare. Im no rocketscientist, but you only have to observe and you see what's going on quite clearly.
Ryanair wont accept a union without a fight ofcourse and will make things maybe even more ugly for a while, but who says they wont do that anyway and then for ever? If you take the pain now the future is more bright. If the pilots dont do nothing then you leave it up to Ryanair how your future will look.
Pilots in Ryanair, high to low, brand new cadets, BRK pilots or not, JOIN IALPA or its sister unions asap and stop the abuse and deterioration of your terms and working conditions.
Good luck!
People outside Ryanair dont realize the pilots struggle in Ryanair might one day influence their job as well and some pilots inside Ryanair dont seem to realize that although they know they will leave Ryanair some day that not fighting now might later still bite them.
Im not a big fan of unions at all, but come on, whats the alternative? The union is the lesser of two evils for sure here.
Some pilots in Ryanair keep quiet and dont support the union idea because they have what they want, like a base thats suits them, decent money, etc. But will this still be there next year, next week or tomorrow? And who will stop Ryanair from taking it away or closing a base? Therefore unity and a union is the only solution to put an end to Ryanair's illegal and inmoral practices. In my time in Ryanair it never ever got any better. They pretended it did, but if you look it didnt at all. And if the pilots wont do anything it will never change.
Forge the metal when its hot and it seems the metal is warmer than ever now
It seems Ryanair's game is coming to an end as they appear to have overplayed their hand and the funny thing is that they dont seem to even know what is still coming, because many pilots are hired somewhere else but havent resigned from Ryanair yet. The exodus wont stop! It only started and wont stop. And all that management is doing now with getting DEC's in, messing even more with the leave system and screwing with the BRK contracts will open the gates even more. Guaranteed! And also the possiblity with airlines in the Middle East possibly opening for DEC's in the future might turn Ryanair's bad dream in a total nightmare. Im no rocketscientist, but you only have to observe and you see what's going on quite clearly.
Ryanair wont accept a union without a fight ofcourse and will make things maybe even more ugly for a while, but who says they wont do that anyway and then for ever? If you take the pain now the future is more bright. If the pilots dont do nothing then you leave it up to Ryanair how your future will look.
Pilots in Ryanair, high to low, brand new cadets, BRK pilots or not, JOIN IALPA or its sister unions asap and stop the abuse and deterioration of your terms and working conditions.
Good luck!