BA - lifestyle and work/life balance
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Basically, a Duty Free Week is a week of leave that you can choose to work through. (i.e. a week free of duty). The emphasis here is that you can choose - say, for extra cash or credit - you can't be forced.
Leave weeks cannot be touched. You can't work through them and the company can't make you either.
Leave weeks cannot be touched. You can't work through them and the company can't make you either.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Thanks for the info, personally I think people make out the seniority system to be harsher than it is for newbies. If you work shifts for any company in any job you will always have to work your way up to the best roles/shifts, BA is no different. It sounds like everyone can get 10 weekends off a year, and as soon as you start moving up the ladder that is only going to improve.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Are they bid for like leave weeks, or are they company allocated?
But if you forget to bid they will be allocated. You can swap with other pilots or subject to availability change via the rosterer. The Duty Free Week is I believe to allow for all the Bank Holidays etc. If you are creative enough it doesn't really matter where your Duty Free Week is, but that is subject of another lesson.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Sorry for butting in but the rose tinted glasses need taking off.
Bid Line Rules gives transparent rosters to 80% of pilots. At the end of a 2 week process when the top 80% have bid once to achieve a trip line and then a second time to fill in any gaps, the rubbish that no-one wants is then allocated to the bottom 20% and is called a Blind Line. No-one wants to work weekends, so essentially if you are in that bottom 20% you will work every weekend (apart from leave) until you move out of that bottom 20%.
On a plus side, if you only work weekends you will work less hard overall with all your time off mid week. If you have any desire to do anything at a weekend you need to have at least 6 months notice so you can book a weeks leave over that date (not always successful), otherwise you are screwed.
If you have a family or an active weekend social life, you really are going to have to compromise everything until enough people have been recruited below you. If you dare complain about the system you will be treated like a pariah by the senior who will claim they were screwed by it so why shouldn't you. Rather like consultants who play golf on friday whilst the junior doctors do their 70 hour weeks. When you do fly with them, they will harp on about how hard done by they are having to go to JFK on a Sunday
Oh, and if you're not doing a Blind Line you do Reserve. 21 days at the behest of BA. The system makes you do it 3 times more than someone who has 10 years in the company. Once again because the rules say so and if you complain you are called selfish.
Bid Lines Rules is only fair once the rosters are published. Before that, it is like an Indian caste system.
All objections to my candid description originate from people who are involved in recruitment. I guarantee it!
Bid Line Rules gives transparent rosters to 80% of pilots. At the end of a 2 week process when the top 80% have bid once to achieve a trip line and then a second time to fill in any gaps, the rubbish that no-one wants is then allocated to the bottom 20% and is called a Blind Line. No-one wants to work weekends, so essentially if you are in that bottom 20% you will work every weekend (apart from leave) until you move out of that bottom 20%.
On a plus side, if you only work weekends you will work less hard overall with all your time off mid week. If you have any desire to do anything at a weekend you need to have at least 6 months notice so you can book a weeks leave over that date (not always successful), otherwise you are screwed.
If you have a family or an active weekend social life, you really are going to have to compromise everything until enough people have been recruited below you. If you dare complain about the system you will be treated like a pariah by the senior who will claim they were screwed by it so why shouldn't you. Rather like consultants who play golf on friday whilst the junior doctors do their 70 hour weeks. When you do fly with them, they will harp on about how hard done by they are having to go to JFK on a Sunday
Oh, and if you're not doing a Blind Line you do Reserve. 21 days at the behest of BA. The system makes you do it 3 times more than someone who has 10 years in the company. Once again because the rules say so and if you complain you are called selfish.
Bid Lines Rules is only fair once the rosters are published. Before that, it is like an Indian caste system.
All objections to my candid description originate from people who are involved in recruitment. I guarantee it!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Depending on where you came from its not as bad as it sounds.
I came from an airline where the chosen few picked trips and sweet talked crewing, where rosters often, changed multiple times per day. where there were no protections and rules about what could and couldn't be done.
Even if you are junior in BA, the system is utterly 'fair' and transparent. (for a given value of 'fair'! some people may not think its fair but there are a set of rules and equations etc that govern the system and everyone is treated equally within those rules. No management pets or crewings 'mates' nicking all the good stuff)
Nothing changes. Once the roster is published its cast in stone. Again depending on where you come from that may or may not be a big change. But for me that is a huge lifestyle improvement - I had no Idea how much of a improvement that roster stability makes to your life - but its indescribable how much it improves everything - even on a psychological level, knowing that you are not one phone call away from having your life f**ked up again is great.
Yeah, you may work weekends -I'm on a smaller fleet so its not as bad as maybe the large fleets are for junior guys - but I've got blindlines this month with a few weekend days off. The days I 'worked' werent that bad either. a saturday with a 21:00 local report. Today with an early day trip but back for a late lunch.
Also The one roster I've had so far with all weekends worked, I had every single Tue-Thurs off and some mondays and fridays - so a couple of 4 day blocks off and about 15 odd days off in total.
Personally I think its a great system. Those that moan about it the most probably haven't experienced first hand some of the other systems that are around!
I came from an airline where the chosen few picked trips and sweet talked crewing, where rosters often, changed multiple times per day. where there were no protections and rules about what could and couldn't be done.
Even if you are junior in BA, the system is utterly 'fair' and transparent. (for a given value of 'fair'! some people may not think its fair but there are a set of rules and equations etc that govern the system and everyone is treated equally within those rules. No management pets or crewings 'mates' nicking all the good stuff)
Nothing changes. Once the roster is published its cast in stone. Again depending on where you come from that may or may not be a big change. But for me that is a huge lifestyle improvement - I had no Idea how much of a improvement that roster stability makes to your life - but its indescribable how much it improves everything - even on a psychological level, knowing that you are not one phone call away from having your life f**ked up again is great.
Yeah, you may work weekends -I'm on a smaller fleet so its not as bad as maybe the large fleets are for junior guys - but I've got blindlines this month with a few weekend days off. The days I 'worked' werent that bad either. a saturday with a 21:00 local report. Today with an early day trip but back for a late lunch.
Also The one roster I've had so far with all weekends worked, I had every single Tue-Thurs off and some mondays and fridays - so a couple of 4 day blocks off and about 15 odd days off in total.
Personally I think its a great system. Those that moan about it the most probably haven't experienced first hand some of the other systems that are around!
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I must applaud 757_Driver!
I believe he is totally correct in what he just said, and I second that!
If you were to see my roster when it was received this month and what I actually worked, you wouldn't believe it’s the same month we are talking about.
I know it’s in human nature to moan and complain, but if you come from a lot worse those fields on the other side of the fence could look very green and lush for a very long time (my memories from previous employers do not fade quickly).
Looking at my October roster right now, I see one Sunday off and that’s it for weekends (and I am senior in a non seniority company).
I just wish they would put an end to my swimming soon!
I believe he is totally correct in what he just said, and I second that!
If you were to see my roster when it was received this month and what I actually worked, you wouldn't believe it’s the same month we are talking about.
I know it’s in human nature to moan and complain, but if you come from a lot worse those fields on the other side of the fence could look very green and lush for a very long time (my memories from previous employers do not fade quickly).
Looking at my October roster right now, I see one Sunday off and that’s it for weekends (and I am senior in a non seniority company).
I just wish they would put an end to my swimming soon!
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In the 5 or so months that I've been at BA, I've worked one blindline which was my choice due to not willing to work wrap days during leave, which would mean I would fall short of CAP and thus not get paid fully. As they allocated me work I got paid in full (and didn't work very hard at all). I have had loads of weekends off (part and whole) and every day that I have required off I have got through bidding. You do have to play the game and bid cleverly (night DMEs or SOFs in a tripline that senior bods don't want and thus delete).
My quality of life is very good and compared to my previous life with no roster stability nor requested days off I have no complaints!!
I can't speak for long haul newbies of course but there's my twopence worth!
My quality of life is very good and compared to my previous life with no roster stability nor requested days off I have no complaints!!
I can't speak for long haul newbies of course but there's my twopence worth!
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75 driver- We agree on the roster stability. No one in BA would argue with that. I just feel new entrants are often caught out by how their weekend lifestyle is put on hold for 2-5 years when joining us. Blind Lines are not transparent and 4 generic preferences, often ignored by Pre-Ops (Rostering), do not come under the title "transparent". You know that, I'm sure!
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Pretty much what SinBin said..
Been at BA about 5 months too and only had one blindline (again through choice). Otherwise I've got one of my top 10 trip line choices each time... had plenty of weekends off and the opportunity to do overtime is fantastic, particularly if you're still paying off flying debt. Granted I think the seniorty list is moving fairly rapidly at the moment...
Contrast this with my last carrier where roster stability was non existant (can't count how many times I picked up changes on the day at report) and I could not be happier!
Been at BA about 5 months too and only had one blindline (again through choice). Otherwise I've got one of my top 10 trip line choices each time... had plenty of weekends off and the opportunity to do overtime is fantastic, particularly if you're still paying off flying debt. Granted I think the seniorty list is moving fairly rapidly at the moment...
Contrast this with my last carrier where roster stability was non existant (can't count how many times I picked up changes on the day at report) and I could not be happier!
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Right Engine
I'm guessing that you have elected to bid off the triple - as I'm assuming you and the proponent for change on the BALPA forum are one and the same? I refer you to my earlier post. In just shy of 4 years on the bus I have seen a progressive improvement in my rosters, regularly get a TL in my top 20 and see a fair number of weekend days. Add in the capabilities of eM to swap trips and I think that life is actually pretty good.
All in my humble opinion of course....
I'm guessing that you have elected to bid off the triple - as I'm assuming you and the proponent for change on the BALPA forum are one and the same? I refer you to my earlier post. In just shy of 4 years on the bus I have seen a progressive improvement in my rosters, regularly get a TL in my top 20 and see a fair number of weekend days. Add in the capabilities of eM to swap trips and I think that life is actually pretty good.
All in my humble opinion of course....
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Brit Bus Driver. Sadly I do not conform to your stereotype. I am senior. I prefer to remain anonymous on PPrune but for what it's worth (without incriminating myself), Bid Line Rules has always been desperately unfair for those at the bottom of the seniority list. It used to be money, now it's lifestyle. The tweaks required to reduce the unfairness require a benevolent and altruistic ethos. BA pilots are on the whole collectively deficitiant in these qualities.
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FWIW I'm about as junior as it gets and I don't think its 'desparately unfair'.
I knew the rules when I joined. If I don't like them I can always bugger off elsewhere.
I'm sure there could be a few tweeks to make the system better, but I've not seen anywhere either within the airline industry or in other careers where you actually get as much control over your life as bidline rules gives you.
I knew the rules when I joined. If I don't like them I can always bugger off elsewhere.
I'm sure there could be a few tweeks to make the system better, but I've not seen anywhere either within the airline industry or in other careers where you actually get as much control over your life as bidline rules gives you.
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Even if you are junior in BA, the system is utterly 'fair' and transparent.
Last edited by Craggenmore; 27th Oct 2011 at 19:50.
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Can anyone recently hired on the Airbus ( year 1) tell me what an average net take home pay is for the month after you have completed training? And how much it varies from month to month?
Cheers
Cheers
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I'd say it's been pretty consistantly £3,600 - £3,900 per month take home since training finished. There is a chance to boost that further if you are happy to work some overtime. Having said that I've got my first reserve month coming up and I gather your pay packet can take a bit of a hit due to the reduced duty pay during reserve.