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BA - lifestyle and work/life balance

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BA - lifestyle and work/life balance

Old 17th Jul 2011, 08:32
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FLR

Ok... I'm mid seniority Airbus, and achieve about 2 weekends off a month, with about 3-4 nightstops a month, I bid for mainly day trips...Days off a month between 12-14, depends on whether I'm bank building or not (bank withdrawals are a good way of achieving ad-hoc days off you require-in addition to swapping with open time....)

Never been long haul....so I won't comment there!
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 08:42
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Let's be honest here FLR is just verbalising what we all want. It's v sensible to investigate all of the pros and cons before jumping ship.

In all sincerity I'd love to know which airlines do offer a stable roster with 15 days encompassing 2 weekends.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 08:49
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Thanks Cough and Sudden Twang.

It's never a simple comparison, but having seen many rosters from charter guys and guys at Virgin it seems they are not far off achieving what I suggest. However, they don't have the job security etc.

Want to make a balanced decision from all the factors.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 09:39
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I can help a little with the longhaul side. I flew shorthaul for another airline before joining BA.

The main lifestyle issues for me at my previous company were roster instablilty (multiple changes of roster, only the days off were untouched) and my desire to live a few hours away from LHR with my family.

BA longhaul allows me to commute (can be frustrating at times, but my choice), many fewer nights in hotels at LHR (I try to avoid any reports before mid afternoon and at just below halfway down the list on my fleet I can achieve this), and the rosters don't change, so I can plan things in advance.

Bluntly, you won't achieve two weekends off a month until you get at least a third up the list on whatever fleet you join, -how long that takes depends on all the usual factors (retirements(!), expansion etc), of late I'd say 6 years but that means nothing for future prospects. Bind line longhaul, I'd say 15 days off a month is possible, but working every weekend and no choice (but shorter flights/fewer hours). Shorthaul (I'm guessing 13-14).

I think we all need to be realistic about the nature of the profession we've chosen (anti-social hours etc), it does put a strain on many peoples family lives.

Am I glad I joined BA? Yes, It's exceeded my expectations. It's about as secure as any flying job in the UK, the other pilots I work with are great company and despite the recent issues with the crew strikes, I sense a new a beginning in that relationship and in fairness have never had any issues as I treat people as I wish to be treated myself. That said, I also really enjoyed working at my old company and was really unsure about leaving.

I didn't apply to VS as I didn't know if longhaul would suit me, at least at BA you can move back to shorthaul if the jetlag becomes too much!

I think the best advice is decide what is important to you (quick command, nights at home, roster stability, choice of days off, salary, ability to commute) and make the decision from there.

Hope that helps.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 10:14
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Calltheball, thank you very much.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 11:51
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FLR

If the lifestyle is more important to you, join and go part-time if you are not getting enough time off. Aspirational part-time is available to all on a seniority/availability basis.

I'm long haul, about half way up my fleet seniority. In July I have 17 days off (2 weekends off). In August I have 14 days off (1 weekend off).
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 13:42
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GS alpha - that is interesting stuff. Thanks.

What you describe sounds good to me.

Do many pilots work part time?
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 14:22
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It is NOT the flag - carrier , but may be perceived to be by many . Not flown the Union Jack on its hulls for YEARS
Eh? I must have imagined the large Union flag that adorns the fin of every single BA aircraft, and has done so for many years!
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 14:37
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There are two sorts of people: those who want it now, and those who are prepared to make sacrifices to get something better later.

If you want it now, BA with its seniority driven system is not the place for you.

If you are happy to work your way up the system and stick with it, BA is still pretty hard to beat when you get the seniority in.

We had exactly the same discussions in BA many decades ago, when people hopped off to get early commands, then found themselves without jobs.
Those who stuck it out in BA mostly felt in the end they had had by far the better overall deal.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 15:40
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Despite the embellishment on the tails, BA is NOT a British company. In fact it is not a company at all. Since the formation of ICAG this year, BA and Iberia have become brands owned by a Spanish registered company. Spain is also where it will pay its corporation etc. taxes. At the moment it started trading on the London and Madrid stock exchanges ICAG was owned 55% by former BA shareholders and 45% by former Iberia shareholders. ICAG was not owned jointly by BA aand Iberia. They have gone. They are over as standalone companies and reduced simply to brands. From the minute when the first shares in ICAG were traded it therefore became irrelevant how they were obtained. By now their shareholders could be entirely different. ICAG's Head Office is currently in London (North Side , Heathrow) but it could be anywhere. Again, its country of registration is Spain. It is a Spanish company so the notion of it being "The UK flag carrier" is now a fiction.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 16:27
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I have been on the 320 fleet for ~2.5 years. I enjoy being able to jiggle my roster to have time at home with Mrs CB and the four legged money pit - granted with no children the days off I want arent necessary weekends so I tend to get them and have done for a while.

The skips I fly with are 99.9% great guys and gals - good sence of humours, happy to take the back seat on 'your' sectors, friendly and very human (not the steely eyed BA stereotypes that non BAers sometimes imagine) - we too laugh at the whole Nigel thing.

Theres oodles written about career (fleets, training, management, recruitment) opportunities so I'll leave that alone.

The hotels are very good.

The union is very good - and very strong (IMHO).

The allowances are very good.

The crew food is very good.

The T5 pre-flight 'experience' is very good.

The staff travel perks are very good - havent been further aft than WT+ since joining but mostly club and first - v nice.

The anciliary perks such as free sim practice if you want it, car park usage whilst on holiday, taking partners away on trips etc etc are all little pluses.

The inter departmental magazine is very open and a good read.

The outside-of-work clubs are plentiful and well attended.

The BARP pension is not as good as APS or NAPS true but its still a very good package. And may I say that unlike the other two its a transferable package for when working in the UK becomes no longer tax viable as it surely will in my lifetime.

Yes thats right I doubt I'll still be in BA when it comes to retirement but thats the fault of that fat greying one eyed wally Gordon ''she just a horrible biggoted woman' Brown not BA.

I like working for BA because its as good as you want it to be.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 17:10
  #32 (permalink)  
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But who is the troll?
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 17:54
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Just a brief response from the 'other' side of the fence.

As a former partner of a mid-seniority BA pilot who I was with when they were on shorthaul and then longhaul; I far preferred it when they were long-haul.

Shorthaul - being woken up irregularly at 3.30am. Lots of coming and going - not enough time to go away on trips together.

Longhaul - liked my own space so trips away meant exactly that - opportunity to kick it in first class and go away on trips together. Lots of foreign pressies to look forward to.

Do you know if they actually want you around as much as you think they do? Space is good in a relationship and is wholly underrated which is why so many fail.

I'm sure you must have talked this over. If not be honest..!!

Good luck

(Also bear in mind that a few BA pilots over the past few years will have artificially low hours after crossing their colleagues picket line to work as CC from time to time.. I had several friends do this.)

Last edited by Craggenmore; 17th Jul 2011 at 18:14.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 20:07
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Full Left Rudder I imagine you are British so i really don t see where the difficult decision is. Of course BA is the best option.
Just my opinion
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 20:40
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Bringbackthe80s - that is why I started this thread. IE to avoid falling into the trap of joining BA just because it is BA. Is an easy one to fall into, but I believe only a fool would do so without finding out about the reality of life there.

It is clear from this thread that BA is a good place to work, but it has major drawbacks. The decision comes from whether you are happy to take the good with the bad, or find alternative employment that balances things more the way you like them.

For example, virgin guys get paid less but have a more relaxed lifestyle.

The grass is not always greener on the other side.
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Old 17th Jul 2011, 21:57
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For example, virgin guys get paid less but have a more relaxed lifestyle.
I really don't know how you could draw that conclusion.

I'm pretty chilled. Long haul BA about a third off the bottom of my fleet. I think the sliding scale of control over your lifestyle is the winner here.
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 08:01
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Mr ripley - my conclusion is drawn from the info I have read on this thread in comparison with many rosters I have seen from guys at virgin.

I know you fly credit hours, but do those 900 credit hours really equate to close to the 750 log book hours that the virgin guys are capped at?
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 08:07
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virgin guys get paid less but have a more relaxed lifestyle.
Not strictly true one both accounts.

Virgins 750, as previously pointed out, does not include all of the other 'BA credited' niff-naff and trivia such as 4:30 credit for Sim checks per day and ground training per day. Time credited for medicals and duty free weeks etc. etc. etc. So whilst some on LH are hitting 900 'credited' hours that will take into account positioning (often happens LH and very comfy it is too!), training, medicals, duty free working weeks, credited days off for Union duties, School Governership, Magistrates duties and so on. The actual 'log book hours' are considerably less. Add that to 3/4 crew LH trips and you get a very relaxed lifestyle indeed with a wide variety of destinations and a payment system that allows you to choose your trips free of financial constraint/seniority (at least when you are off the bottom).

Pay per 'flying hour' is, probably, comparible. Pay per 'Credited Hour' is not.

Great place to work. My work/lifestyle balance is dictated by how I wish to bid using Bidline. I can ramp up my work to 'bank' hours and then release those hours when I need/want time off in the future. The company are very sympathetic, generally, to the pilot workforce when it comes to family emergencies and sickness. As has been mentioned before the seniority issue is the big one. If, like me, you are happy to restart, give up your command and do the BA command course it is a great place to work. If you want to jump straight into the LHS then it is probably not for you but the time in the RHS, from my experience, was excellent insofar as the crew concept stretches across the cockpit and 'your' sector is truely you own if you wish it to be so.

As to pilots crossing picket lines of ill thought out IA, they were pushed to the back by the hordes of Unite sub branch workers who were getting in there first. Nice little temperamental hand grenade as the number of pilots as VCC was very small indeed.

Enjoy!
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 08:24
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Wirbelsturm,

I need to correct a misnomer. It appears you are confusing "credit hours" and "flying hours". There is an important distinction.

A BA pilot at LHR is contracted for 1045 credit hours. This includes leave, simulators, other duties, etc. This is not to be confused with flying hours for which you are not specifically contracted. The way credit per trip is calculated varies and is not strictly to do with the number of flying hours on a particular trip (there is some weighting to recognise low hours days for example - ie. on shorthaul, you are guaranteed a minimum of 4:30 credit hours per day worked).

In practice, this means a longhaul pilot achieves around 850 flying hours and a shorthaul pilot will achieve 700-750 flying hours per year whilst both achieve the annual CAP (credit hours) of 1045. Those hitting 900 flying hours will generally have done some overtime.
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 08:29
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I understand what you say and you explain it better than I can, but, in my experience, I have never hit the 900 'flying hours' limit without being credit hours limited first. The question has always been whether the lifestyle balance can be achieved within BA.

As you say those hitting 900 hours have been choosing to do overtime. Careful bidding will see you hitting your credit hours limit well before you hit the flying hours limit which is more comparible to the VS position. Most importantly the way you bid, the hours you achieve and the destinations you go to are yours to choose when you have the seniority in either seat.

Sorry I didn't make that clearer.
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