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BA - lifestyle and work/life balance

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BA - lifestyle and work/life balance

Old 19th Jul 2011, 16:32
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If BA pilots are doing 900 hrs a year why am I doing 700?
I suspect you know this but obviously it's down to the fleet you're on and what you bid for/are assigned ( e.g. consistently doing "flying hours" trips such as to/from the Eastern Seaboard). Some in Long Haul certainly are ringing the 900 hours "bell".
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Old 19th Jul 2011, 16:43
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Apologies for the rhetorical question.

Just pointing out that not all of us fly 900 hrs and really in most cases its down to choice.
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Old 19th Jul 2011, 16:59
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really in most cases its down to choice.
True to some extent, but on some fleets many of the lines of work are packed with short trips (e.g. three days away, 13-14 flying hour trips)......and being junior means you only have so much choice............but being junior doesn't last for ever
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Old 19th Jul 2011, 17:30
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The other thing to remember is that all the stuff about bidline, seniority and other opportunites in a company like BA (management, training, sim panel operators, pilot-ambasadors etc) means that you can have a developing career. As you develop seniority you get more choices, you have different fleets and oportunities etc.
Seniority has its detractors but probably mostly amongst junior guys - although I'm the most junior on my fleet and one of the most junior in the company as I only joined a month or so back, but I can see the future benefits in the system, but to be honest even a blindline of junior work is still head and sholders above my previous job with random rostering to the limits (and beyond) of the law and massive roster disruption.
Maybe some people prefer the 'equality' of an low cost airline fixed roster pattern etc - and I'm sure its great for some - but where is the career development, the change and improvement over time? day 1 ezy - heres your 5-4-5-3 (or whatever it is) - and this is what you will still be doing in 40 years time - I'm sure it can be a great job but I don't call that a career. BA I certainly call a career
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Old 19th Jul 2011, 19:21
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It depends what you want out of your career I suppose. True, with BA you are on a slowly improving trajectory in that the lifestyle and pay gradually become better as you progress up the seniority list. I think the key to deciding whether BA is for you depends wholly on whether you will be happy living the BA lifestyle because you're not going to be doing it for the money. A great deal of your time will be spent away from home so you need to be prepared to throw yourself into all the activities that are on offer downroute. The happiest Nigels that I know are the ones who take great pleasure in telling you about their latest trip to xxxxxxxx. Jetskis, golf, etc etc. They love it and who can blame them!!

BUT, as for BA being the best then it absolutely depends on what your priorities are. For me the orange machine is better. The days out are almost invariably very pleasant and devoid of any 'office politics'. I do about 6-12 nightstops a year which are always good for a laugh and I only found out what my manager looks like a couple of weeks ago. I'm around at home with my family alot and drop/pick up my kids from school very regularly. I can afford a very good lifestyle well ahead of when I could have done so had I joined BA and I can live without the first class food, 5 star hotels, jetskis and golf in exchange. Let's not even start on the cash people are making on the continental contracts! It's about priorities and for me and lifestyle at home takes precedence over lifestyle at work.

Everyone's got some mates that work for BA so I suggest you offer to take them out and get them drunk in return for all the inside information. It would probably be a good investment!

Last edited by WHYEYEMAN; 19th Jul 2011 at 20:04.
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Old 19th Jul 2011, 23:17
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Great thing about BA in my mind is the variety of flying and aircraft fleets. You want shorthaul flying? Can't stand long flights and layovers in distant lands (or American malls)? A319/20/21 and 737-400. You want some exotic flying and you have had enough of Europe? Want to fly the latest-generation aircraft? 777, 744, 767, and soon-to-be 787 and A380. You only like sidesticks and Airbus? You can bid those. You prefer traditional yoke and American made? Plenty of Boeing choices. Get my point? When seniority permits, pick your poison and enjoy. Not many other airlines can provide the range of choices. That said, you will sit as an FO for a very, very long time at BA. So, consider the pros and cons. That's my 2 cents.

Cheers

Last edited by Iver; 19th Jul 2011 at 23:37.
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 07:37
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But in 5 years he won't have 2 stripes he'll have 3, and if the 1000 pilots over 5 years turns out to be correct he wont be working Thurs to Tues either (unless he wants to).
As an SFO he will easily be over half way up the seniority list of any fleet he wants, with a great deal of control over his home life.
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 07:53
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BlackandBrown....But here in lies the answer to what has been bashed out here for several pages now!

BA isn't for everyone, neither is easyJet, neither is Jet2 or any of the other airlines. It all comes down to personal preference and as they always say, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Full Left Rudder started this thread in order to get a better idea of what life is like on the other side, not to sit here and squabble about who has the better life.

I believe Super Stall has filled in the other inaccuracies in your last post about still having 2 stripes... and you should perhaps ask him in 10 years whether he still likes it because I would place my bets on the fact that he will say "YES".
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 08:11
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Even if I was 28 and a captain with easyJet I would STILL move to BA because it offers a far better and more sustainable lifestyle. But then again, as said before, it comes down to personal choice.

Trust me, 5 earlies and being rostered to within 15-20 mins of discretion is not a nice thing to be doing for another 35 years or so...especially if you have no control over your roster or days off and have to wade through a mud field of rostering agreements to figure out whether or not your can refuse a duty etc etc etc...

I believe we are trying to present a balanced view on here, which is good, however ultimately Full Left Rudder will have to make up his own mind by perhaps experiencing it all for himself(?)
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 08:43
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@black and brown,

your mate with 5 years on the airbus working thurs to tues? Not quite true i'm afraid. That is similar to my place in the list and I mainly get weekends off, save the occasional late sunday afternoon daytrip or something......

If it is true then he needs to stop bidding for weekend work if he doesnt want to!

My first few years yes, lots of weekend work, but not for the last 2 years. Also, 3rd stripe after 4yrs+unfrozen ATPL not 5.

D2k.
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 09:08
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Timing is everything with BA. Your seniority in the company dictates everything and those who joined at the end of the last recruiting phase have had a long time on the bottom.

If, however, you joined at the start of a recruiting phase then the outlook is totally different! For example you could join on the Airbus whilst wishing for a Jumbo and then watching as the Jumbo recruits DEP for the next 4 years. However after your intial type freeze (5 years) you can then slide into the Jumbo seniority roster above all those joining after you. It all pans out even in the end based upon how long you have been in the company.

The last few years have been slow and difficult with productivity increases pushing up the workload and lack of recruitment resulting in stagnation. However the employment was secure and the incremental pay rises remained.

The reduction in the 757 fleet was supposed to be tied in with the acceptance of the 787 which, as we all know, was delayed. The 757 was backfilled with Airbus and an extra order of 6 airbus aircraft was taken from Iberia into BA. So now BA has an expanded Airbus fleet, 24 787's on order expected next year with the bid opened this year for positions. The A380 bid also opened this year for deliveries expected at the end of next year. All of the 744's have been pressed back into service and the venerable old 767 has been given a life extension with cabin refits being carried out now.

What does this mean in the long term? Fleet accquisition with no/little fleet retirement (737 notwithstanding and a decision to be made on that soon, possibly A320 NEO). If you get in at the start of that expansion then the time to command can change very rapidly, if that is your primary concern. I know colleagues who went from 2 stripes to 4 very quickly (1 to 2 years in BA) as they were in the right place at the right time.

The destinations are varied and interesting. The ability to bid from them if you wish or not is excellent. Time at the bottom is dictated by recruitment which is difficult to predict. You can work as much or as little as you wish with many pilots trading trips for cash on the eMaestro online bidding system allowing them to retain 'credit' whilst paying the allowances to who wishes to pickup the trip. Leave is good, two duty free weeks per year, overtime and family days all add up.

But, as has been mentioned, any company is a panacea for some and hell for others. The general concensous within the company is that it is a good, safe and fun place to work. The days of the 'Transatlantic Hamble Barons' are long gone. Time at the bottom is a pain but everyone has gone through it and the time at the top offsets that pain. Many, many of the 'new' guys have come from airlines where they held commands and seem to have no trouble chilling out in the RHS prior to getting their command back. Remember that the SFO payscale on LH for basic tops out at >£100,000 mark before you add in allowances.

All told, from an insiders point of view (and I had a command prior to coming to BA) it is an excellent, chilled out and fun place to earn your pay!

Edit to add:
I have a friend who is a TC at Easy and thoroughly enjoys it. We now have a large amount of DEP's who have joined from Easy into BA on the airbus who seem to find the BA scheduling far more pleasant. Only the individual can judge what is and isn't favourable for them.

P.S. Bidding can be a fun game. You will find that those senior on rubbish trips will always blame a 'Bid Blunder' for being their!
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 09:22
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Funny thing this "EZY is as good as BA for work & life"... except for the odd Captain who can't justify the paycut and change in family life perhaps, most of those posts come from "those" who didn't get through the BA selection... I wonder why.
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 09:23
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2 mins or 2 years, what's the difference. Brian keep dreaming of the greener grass, I'd imagine that's all you'll see of it. And if you do find a place in an airline that a fine aviator (in your opinion) like you deserves I hope you aren't back on here whinging within '2 minutes'.
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 09:24
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From Blackandbrown on the BA DEP thread:

Yes, I was there on the 11th and heard back the next day via e mail - unsuccessful. It was no big surprise for me for a number of reasons.
You seem to have been talking to the wrong people within SH as I know of friends who, after 4/5 years are in the top 3rd of the SFO rosters and never have to work a weekend if they don't want to or are pinged for reserve! That only happens every couple of years! Third stripe after 4 years, initial type freeze ends after 5 years allowing you to bid for other types.

BA is not for all people but, for the vast majority of those who join very,very few leave (and those that went to Virgin a couple of years back for 'instant' LH, got made redundant!).
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 10:13
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I have never belittled Easy Jet? I have some good friends flying for Easyjet and they enjoy it thoroughly.

I did think it relevant that someone who espose's 'the grass is always greener' to a colleague didn't make it through the interview with the company that the colleague is discussing. Previous colleagues of mine have also failed the interview/sim process. It can often depend upon various circumstances on the day and the interviewer as well as the interviewee, very much like any interview process!

It is interesting to say that you are not the 'right' person as I don't believe there is any 'right' or 'wrong' type of person in a company of 3300 pilots, everyone can find their feet and the selection process is there to determine if you are suitable 'at the time'. What transpires over the course of a potentially 45 year career is up to you and impossible to judge by any employer.

Fast track to command is not the be all and end all. Especially for those who have held commands before. The ability to change fleets and have access to a wide range of flying is what enticed me into BA, not the money, not the supposed 'kudos' and certainly not the brown nosing. I consider myself a perfectly average airline pilot who just enjoys getting the most out of my working day and having a laugh at the same time. If I can't laugh at myself then I can't laugh at any one!

Admittedly some days are tougher than others and some colleagues in the RHS need a little more supervision than others but, generally, I get paid to do a job I enjoy, see interesting places and chill out by the pool on company time with a cold, company subsidised, beer at my side.

Having any job you enjoy is a fantastic bonus irrespective of the employer. As much as you state that your opinion is valid don't try and shoot people down because they disagree with you or find certain actions valid and relevant.

This isn't a BA verses Easy/Ryanair/Monarch ..... <insert airline here> thread. It is a thread to discuss whether the life within BA fits a specific purposes of achieveing a lifestlye balance. As that balance is an extremely personal thing the answer will NEVER be the same from one person to the next. So lets keep it all on track shall we!

Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 20th Jul 2011 at 10:15. Reason: Speelung (again!)
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 10:20
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Not sure if it has been covered, sorry in that case, but:

Would it be possible to commute from abroad (Madrid for instance) as long haul pilot?

Is anybody with a bit of seniority doing so at present?
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 10:37
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Would it be possible to commute from abroad (Madrid for instance) as long haul pilot?
Undoubtably! There are alot of BA and Iberia flights from Madrid! (Beware that the Iberia flights and the BA flights depart from different terminals but quite close to each other scheduled departure wise! So getting from one to the other is difficult).

You would be wise to seek out some reliable overnight accomodation in the London area though as, being junior, you might well get some of the earlier LH departures thus need to be in London the day before. There is, however, a very active accomodation board for casual bookings in the Crew report centre (CRC).

Edited to add:

There are some of the new DEP joiners to the 744 who are commuting from Spain, Germany and the Netherlands who are at the bottom of the seniority list commuting BUT I seem to remember that Staff Travel only kicks in after 6 months so you might need to factor that into you decisions. Many just rent a short term flat for six months and then commute. I depends upon your home/family situation.
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 10:57
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You will find that those senior on rubbish trips will always blame a 'Bid Blunder' for being their!
LOS is NOT Los Angeles! - Happened
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 11:00
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Basil,

I don't know what the problem is? Surely Lagos is as 'preferrable' as LAX??????



At least its a shorter flight! although the local 'wild life' in Lagos is a little more 'exotic'!
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 12:52
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I get paid to do a job I enjoy, see interesting places and chill out by the pool on company time with a cold, company subsidised, beer at my side.
This sums it up for me. You have to decide whether you're someone who wants to spend more time at work but in a very nice way, or as little time as possible at work so you can get on with your life outside of work. I have noticed a tendency among BA employees for BA to become their lives. That's not necessarily a bad thing, you just need to decide if it's for you.
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