Air new zealand jobs
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Springbokflyer
Don't worry about what slamer says, he's just another of those who have swallowed the brochure and probably never ventured outside these shores.
He doesn't get that just one of those trips to Majorca exposes a pilot to busier airspace and more technical challenges than any the ANZ pilots he reveres so much are ever likely to see. Nothing hard about joining the queue into LHR or LAX.
He doesn't get that hours are irrelevant when most of them have been gained instructing or piloting some dodgy old twin around doing charters.
And as for "more experience, time, ratings and other quals than you do"... well I doubt it, but even if that were so... so what? What does that mean in real life?
The "New Zealand experience" thing is just a device to keep foreign or returning Kiwi pilots out. There is NOTHING in NZ flying that is not common in Europe or the States, in fact flying in and around the Alps (the real ones) is far more demanding and specialised than anything over here.
What springbokflyer145 is saying is completely correct. The only people who believe the crap that slamer is spouting are those who have never been there and never done that.
Don't worry about what slamer says, he's just another of those who have swallowed the brochure and probably never ventured outside these shores.
He doesn't get that just one of those trips to Majorca exposes a pilot to busier airspace and more technical challenges than any the ANZ pilots he reveres so much are ever likely to see. Nothing hard about joining the queue into LHR or LAX.
He doesn't get that hours are irrelevant when most of them have been gained instructing or piloting some dodgy old twin around doing charters.
And as for "more experience, time, ratings and other quals than you do"... well I doubt it, but even if that were so... so what? What does that mean in real life?
The "New Zealand experience" thing is just a device to keep foreign or returning Kiwi pilots out. There is NOTHING in NZ flying that is not common in Europe or the States, in fact flying in and around the Alps (the real ones) is far more demanding and specialised than anything over here.
What springbokflyer145 is saying is completely correct. The only people who believe the crap that slamer is spouting are those who have never been there and never done that.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please dont confuse NZ pilots with airline mgmnt. Especially regional mgmnt! Those guys are there mostly because they have failed to ever move on. The insular and inbred ideas and rules that Remoak hates are simply passed from one generation to the next.
NZ airlines have very slow progression with strict seniority the norm. Dont hate the regular jet pilots you meet round the world, especially the ones that got out!!
We dont make the rules!!
NZ airlines have very slow progression with strict seniority the norm. Dont hate the regular jet pilots you meet round the world, especially the ones that got out!!
We dont make the rules!!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL450
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBF
I have to say I agree with your sentiments entirely but found it not only in NZ but OZ too. "How much Australian flying experience have ya got?"
I did manage to get a job in NZ but the airline didn't last. Utterly boring flying though. Since spending years trying I gave up and returned to reality.
OZ/NZ let you in based on flying experience and then refuse to recognise it. It's a f@@ked up system and I see no oportunity there ever in avaition!
I have to say I agree with your sentiments entirely but found it not only in NZ but OZ too. "How much Australian flying experience have ya got?"
I did manage to get a job in NZ but the airline didn't last. Utterly boring flying though. Since spending years trying I gave up and returned to reality.
OZ/NZ let you in based on flying experience and then refuse to recognise it. It's a f@@ked up system and I see no oportunity there ever in avaition!
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBF145
I guess experience is a relative thing.
Im sorry I dont know much about the "NZ experience thing" and the genesis of it so I will reserve comment, but on the surface it sounds like a fairly dumb idea. however as much as it appears like its some sort of protectionist mechanism, Ill bet theres some other logic behind it that someone thought a good idea at the time..... just dont ask me what.
I hold/held a few diff licences over the years, they have all had their idiosyncrasies in obtaining.
And your correct, I wouldnt be paid $11.50/hr to fly a C172. But often "pay" considerably more to enjoy that sort of flying myself.
Good luck with your career path, I doubt being a non NZ national in itself will be an impediment.
I guess experience is a relative thing.
Im sorry I dont know much about the "NZ experience thing" and the genesis of it so I will reserve comment, but on the surface it sounds like a fairly dumb idea. however as much as it appears like its some sort of protectionist mechanism, Ill bet theres some other logic behind it that someone thought a good idea at the time..... just dont ask me what.
I hold/held a few diff licences over the years, they have all had their idiosyncrasies in obtaining.
And your correct, I wouldnt be paid $11.50/hr to fly a C172. But often "pay" considerably more to enjoy that sort of flying myself.
Good luck with your career path, I doubt being a non NZ national in itself will be an impediment.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm, Cadets pay 30k to get a job with RY, don't get paid while they are training, probably takes about 6 months to get on line, end up living in country they don't want to live in. All you have to do is get paid, all be it a pitance, to fly a 172 for 6 months and then you would probably have more than a decent chance to get the job you want, or do you not want the job and just like moaning about it. Did you emigrate to NZ on the strength of your flying experience,since there isn't a shortage of pilots in NZ, or do you have some other highly sort after skill. If you are really that keen on a flying job in NZ then come up with what the companies want. Although SBF, if the management at the NZ regionals read this then it will make it hard for any South African to get hired.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: airside
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BFF
Well BFF, unless you a Kiwi, I think any nationality will have a hard time getting a job here. I dont give a stuff if management read these. Maybe its something they need to read and wake up to more upto date recruitment procedures.
As for the C172, even if you took the job mate, I dont think you going to get too much IFR experience in it. If you didnt know, I think it is abit to slow for airways and has no deicing systems on it as well as not having all othe other gear.
And the so called moaning you are on about....well I am not moaning, I just want an equal opportunity to apply, seen as I have the right to live and work here.
Unless you have actually been here and tried to apply for these jobs, I dont think people can actually comprehend the mission and frustration that you experience. For the likes of you BFF sitting in the UK, the aviation industry is a vast amount more buoyant than down here in NZ. If I went back to the UK, I know I could walk into another job. The point being I have sacrificed in the past to study, qualify and do the so called sh...tty flying to eventually get into the bigger better aircraft. I just didnt think I would now need to go do it all again.
I now have a family, a kid and unlike the 250 houred RyanAir cadets, I now am unable to go work for $11.50 an hour as I have committments to my family.
All I am trying to do is get back in the air.
Fly safe
As for the C172, even if you took the job mate, I dont think you going to get too much IFR experience in it. If you didnt know, I think it is abit to slow for airways and has no deicing systems on it as well as not having all othe other gear.
And the so called moaning you are on about....well I am not moaning, I just want an equal opportunity to apply, seen as I have the right to live and work here.
Unless you have actually been here and tried to apply for these jobs, I dont think people can actually comprehend the mission and frustration that you experience. For the likes of you BFF sitting in the UK, the aviation industry is a vast amount more buoyant than down here in NZ. If I went back to the UK, I know I could walk into another job. The point being I have sacrificed in the past to study, qualify and do the so called sh...tty flying to eventually get into the bigger better aircraft. I just didnt think I would now need to go do it all again.
I now have a family, a kid and unlike the 250 houred RyanAir cadets, I now am unable to go work for $11.50 an hour as I have committments to my family.
All I am trying to do is get back in the air.
Fly safe
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBF I think yo have missed the point, never mind. SInce I have moved several times and started at the bottom and worked my way up, you might understand that I have little sympathy for you. Maybe I'll try SAA for a job and see if they will give me a DEC.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where the work is
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for your information SBF, among a number of other nationalities, there are at a rough count at least 5 ex South Africans with Pac Blue . Two are flight examiners and one a training captain so I doubt there is any bias against any nationality there.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the arrival of Pac Blue and Jetstar and to an extent Jetconnect the national bias thing seems to have disappeared to a large extent. Air Nelson is still enforcing the whole '50 hours recent NZ flying experience'. Crazy I guess, I can get a Captains seat flying a Jet around NZ but couldn't even get an Air Nelson interview for a FO spot on the Dash 8 (despite over 2500 hours on type) in my preferred base because I made the cardinal mistake of going overseas and working to gain experience.
Let me put it this way, the money is sh*t, the career opportunities are sh*t and lastly the flying is perhaps the most boring I have encountered anywhere. People put up with this though as living in New Zealand is worth it, that is how I feel anyway. Hopefully the more kiwis that return from overseas the more diluted the whole 'we do things better than everyone else' attitude will become.
Let me put it this way, the money is sh*t, the career opportunities are sh*t and lastly the flying is perhaps the most boring I have encountered anywhere. People put up with this though as living in New Zealand is worth it, that is how I feel anyway. Hopefully the more kiwis that return from overseas the more diluted the whole 'we do things better than everyone else' attitude will become.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well the reality is that companies like Air Nelson will never change until you get rid of all the aero club rejects that sit in middle management.
As I have said before in these pages, when I first came back to NZ I tried to get into Air Nelson. Despite having instructed for a while in the local area, and having significant jet experience in the busiest airspace in Europe, I had no success, having been issued the standard "must have 50 hours recent NZ IF time" letter.
That annoyed me, so I eventually managed to get the Chief Pilot on the phone and asked him what the problem was.
I was told in no uncertain terms that "little b@stards like me" who had "jumped the queue" by working overseas, were absolutely "not welcome in Air Nelson" who only wanted people who had "paid their dues, swept out the hangar, cleaned the aeroplanes (for nothing)", etc etc etc.
Well OK it's their train set, so I just went back to Europe. But the attitude on display here is endemic in Air Nelson, and you will never change it.
Aviation in NZ is closed-minded and petty, and always has been. Good luck!
As I have said before in these pages, when I first came back to NZ I tried to get into Air Nelson. Despite having instructed for a while in the local area, and having significant jet experience in the busiest airspace in Europe, I had no success, having been issued the standard "must have 50 hours recent NZ IF time" letter.
That annoyed me, so I eventually managed to get the Chief Pilot on the phone and asked him what the problem was.
I was told in no uncertain terms that "little b@stards like me" who had "jumped the queue" by working overseas, were absolutely "not welcome in Air Nelson" who only wanted people who had "paid their dues, swept out the hangar, cleaned the aeroplanes (for nothing)", etc etc etc.
Well OK it's their train set, so I just went back to Europe. But the attitude on display here is endemic in Air Nelson, and you will never change it.
Aviation in NZ is closed-minded and petty, and always has been. Good luck!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not that you could ever be accused of that eh, Remoak?
Tarring every NZ industry participant with that brush
They probably did you a favour.
If you want to know WHY Air Nelson is like that, just look back to the guy that started it. A more arrogant and nasty individual would be hard to find. It's his legacy you are seeing.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: airside
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BFF: go for it
BFF: I think I did get the point and I totally agree with Remoak.
I would love you to apply to SAA, hope they turn you down as you dont have any recent SA experience.....classic
While all that bullsh.t continues, NZ will always be stuck in their old ways. Maybe they should update their ways and stop try being like this big aviation governing body when there is only a small aviation industry within a small country.
I am not too worried anymore as I have been offered a great job in OZ. I think the wait was much more worth it than getting into some piss willy subsidery and being unhappy and actually gaining no more quality experience.
Like most guys I know they just do there time and then head off to OZ and thats why this economy will never be bigger enough to sustain anything. Thats why most of the goods tradesman have left. Even your fellow Kiwis.
The money is better, life is good, better economy, future and still a great lifestyle. At least that country moves with the times.
So enjoy Auckland to Wellington, Wellington Auckland till the day you retire!! Great experience for you mate. ENJOY
Maybe catch up in OZ!!
Apologies if i have offended anyone unintentionally.!!
I would love you to apply to SAA, hope they turn you down as you dont have any recent SA experience.....classic
While all that bullsh.t continues, NZ will always be stuck in their old ways. Maybe they should update their ways and stop try being like this big aviation governing body when there is only a small aviation industry within a small country.
I am not too worried anymore as I have been offered a great job in OZ. I think the wait was much more worth it than getting into some piss willy subsidery and being unhappy and actually gaining no more quality experience.
Like most guys I know they just do there time and then head off to OZ and thats why this economy will never be bigger enough to sustain anything. Thats why most of the goods tradesman have left. Even your fellow Kiwis.
The money is better, life is good, better economy, future and still a great lifestyle. At least that country moves with the times.
So enjoy Auckland to Wellington, Wellington Auckland till the day you retire!! Great experience for you mate. ENJOY
Maybe catch up in OZ!!
Apologies if i have offended anyone unintentionally.!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: airborne
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBF - you go dude
SBF: good news for your job. All good things come to those that wait.
I tried Air Nelson and Eagle Airways with no joy. Phoned them and they tried to fob me off with pathetic reasons. I ended up arguing with the recruitment lady over something so insignificant that actually had nothing to do with my application or flying. She could not actually come up with a reason why I was not employable so just made things up. Looking back both companies actually did me a favour.
You are right, they do need to change their ways but might just need management to move before any changes will take place. Might not be in our life time so a long time to keep applying. I moved on and was the best thing I ever did.
Nz is not the b all and end all of aviation, could be the latter but i think OZ was a good way to go. Leave those guys to carry on doing the same things they do and let them be happy with it.
By the sounds of things you have gained some great experience in various parts of the world so lets let them gain what ever it is they gain while flying in NZ.
All the best mate
I tried Air Nelson and Eagle Airways with no joy. Phoned them and they tried to fob me off with pathetic reasons. I ended up arguing with the recruitment lady over something so insignificant that actually had nothing to do with my application or flying. She could not actually come up with a reason why I was not employable so just made things up. Looking back both companies actually did me a favour.
You are right, they do need to change their ways but might just need management to move before any changes will take place. Might not be in our life time so a long time to keep applying. I moved on and was the best thing I ever did.
Nz is not the b all and end all of aviation, could be the latter but i think OZ was a good way to go. Leave those guys to carry on doing the same things they do and let them be happy with it.
By the sounds of things you have gained some great experience in various parts of the world so lets let them gain what ever it is they gain while flying in NZ.
All the best mate
SBF
Tell us how many 200 hour FO's are there flying jets in New Zealand? Or turbo props for that matter? Your argument on this is a bit thin I suspect. Compared to some parts of the world New Zealand is awash with pilots with experience.
Yes, you might have more, or in your view better experience, but telling that to a local, and it doesn't matter where in the world you say that, isn't the way to endear yourself to them especially when you want a job.
The problem you face is that seniority is they way things are largely done in NZ. This almost rules out any DEC for guys with your experience. Like it or not that is the way it is. It affect locals, just as badly as yourself, who decide to jump off then want to come back, they have to start at the bottom. Don't take it personally. Perhaps your expectations were based on different circumstances.
However at the risk of sounding presumtious and/or offending you I cannot help wonder that your attitude might have counted against you when talking to the recruiters at the places you have tried to get into. You seem to have failed where others like you have succeeded. I remember being told it's not your flying experience/ability that matters most it's your ability to be able to relate and work with people that counts, your flying comes next.
Put your family/kids in that plane....... now tell me you are happy to see a 200hour FO behind the stick.
Yes, you might have more, or in your view better experience, but telling that to a local, and it doesn't matter where in the world you say that, isn't the way to endear yourself to them especially when you want a job.
The problem you face is that seniority is they way things are largely done in NZ. This almost rules out any DEC for guys with your experience. Like it or not that is the way it is. It affect locals, just as badly as yourself, who decide to jump off then want to come back, they have to start at the bottom. Don't take it personally. Perhaps your expectations were based on different circumstances.
However at the risk of sounding presumtious and/or offending you I cannot help wonder that your attitude might have counted against you when talking to the recruiters at the places you have tried to get into. You seem to have failed where others like you have succeeded. I remember being told it's not your flying experience/ability that matters most it's your ability to be able to relate and work with people that counts, your flying comes next.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: airborne
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SBF
Dont worry what 27/09 says.
He is prob an Air NZ pilot trying to justify his place in the company. Probably joined at 22 and now at 55 still awaiting an upgrade. Let him be mate.
Like you said you are now working for a better company than Eagle and you are correct.........anywhere is better.
You views on experience do count. I would rather employ you with no NZ experience than an NZ pilot who has 1000 hours of teaching CPL's. This is where exeprience does count and that should not be looked past and someday it will bite some company in the arse.
I sure as hell hope that no Kiwi pilot expects a DEC in another country when we cant get it in theirs!! Discrimination comes to mind.
Laters
He is prob an Air NZ pilot trying to justify his place in the company. Probably joined at 22 and now at 55 still awaiting an upgrade. Let him be mate.
Like you said you are now working for a better company than Eagle and you are correct.........anywhere is better.
You views on experience do count. I would rather employ you with no NZ experience than an NZ pilot who has 1000 hours of teaching CPL's. This is where exeprience does count and that should not be looked past and someday it will bite some company in the arse.
I sure as hell hope that no Kiwi pilot expects a DEC in another country when we cant get it in theirs!! Discrimination comes to mind.
Laters
SBF and Approachchecks
Congratulations to both of you on your jobs. I'm pleased things have worked out well in the end.
SBF
Quite true I wouldn't want to be "
around" as you say either. One thing in life I have observed is very often you never get told the real reason when you get rejected for/about something. You get given a convenient answer. However I do know that several foreigners are/have been employed in various airlines in New Zealand so your assertation that you need to be a New Zealander to get a job in New Zealand is quite untrue. This is what made me wonder why you didn't get a look in.
I don't think many New Zealand pilots heading off overseas would expect to get a DEC, which I think was the thrust of one of BFF's posts, a point you seemed to miss.
Approachchecks
No, I'm not an Air NZ pilot and I'm not that insecure I need to justify my position to anybody.
Congratulations to both of you on your jobs. I'm pleased things have worked out well in the end.
SBF
Quite true I wouldn't want to be "
around" as you say either. One thing in life I have observed is very often you never get told the real reason when you get rejected for/about something. You get given a convenient answer. However I do know that several foreigners are/have been employed in various airlines in New Zealand so your assertation that you need to be a New Zealander to get a job in New Zealand is quite untrue. This is what made me wonder why you didn't get a look in. I don't think many New Zealand pilots heading off overseas would expect to get a DEC, which I think was the thrust of one of BFF's posts, a point you seemed to miss.
Approachchecks
No, I'm not an Air NZ pilot and I'm not that insecure I need to justify my position to anybody.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: airside
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
27/09
The reason I did not get a look at was not that they were not interested but because I did not have the recent NZ experience.
I was interviewed by a well known airline who told me that I fit the company mould and were very interested in employing me but I had to go and fly for someone else for 6months to a year to get NZ experience and then come back to them.
So off I went and applied to everyone i thought fit only to be asked if I had the same thing....NZ experience.
Eventually I thought, this, I do not have to go fly a PA31 around for a year earning nothing to get my chance at a 737 800. Not that I think that is downgrading but i could not suppoort my family on that salary and as sure as hell with the amount of many I have spent over the course of my career am I NOT going to go live on a flexible friend.
I think with a vast amount of flying experience throughout the world, it would not come down to me having to prove myself for 6-12 months before offering me as job. Just chuck me in a sim, if I am not good enough then fair is fair but at least give me the chance!!
As for the airline, well I am happy not to have been accepted, since a KIWI friend has been accepted and he is unhappy with T's and C's and rosters. Spends along time away from family and has invested into the company by having to pay for his type rating.
I took my experience and knowledge and looked elsewhere and a good company liked what they saw and off I went. I was not expected to have recent flying experience within the country as experience is experience mate and it doesnt matter where in the world you gained it. if you can fly a perfect single engine ILS in Geneva, Dubai or even LAX then I am sure you will be able to shoot one in Auckland.
I got a container to pack, Im outter here
I was interviewed by a well known airline who told me that I fit the company mould and were very interested in employing me but I had to go and fly for someone else for 6months to a year to get NZ experience and then come back to them.
So off I went and applied to everyone i thought fit only to be asked if I had the same thing....NZ experience.
Eventually I thought,
this, I do not have to go fly a PA31 around for a year earning nothing to get my chance at a 737 800. Not that I think that is downgrading but i could not suppoort my family on that salary and as sure as hell with the amount of many I have spent over the course of my career am I NOT going to go live on a flexible friend.I think with a vast amount of flying experience throughout the world, it would not come down to me having to prove myself for 6-12 months before offering me as job. Just chuck me in a sim, if I am not good enough then fair is fair but at least give me the chance!!
As for the airline, well I am happy not to have been accepted, since a KIWI friend has been accepted and he is unhappy with T's and C's and rosters. Spends along time away from family and has invested into the company by having to pay for his type rating.
I took my experience and knowledge and looked elsewhere and a good company liked what they saw and off I went. I was not expected to have recent flying experience within the country as experience is experience mate and it doesnt matter where in the world you gained it. if you can fly a perfect single engine ILS in Geneva, Dubai or even LAX then I am sure you will be able to shoot one in Auckland.
I got a container to pack, Im outter here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes the old myth that NZ is somehow "different" to the rest of the world...
Wake up NZ, we operate to ICAO/PANS-OPS II just like the rest of the world. The only real difference is the sub-standard level of navaid provision, particularly in the regions. Other than that... well the only people that think there are differences are the muppets that have never been anywhere else...
Wake up NZ, we operate to ICAO/PANS-OPS II just like the rest of the world. The only real difference is the sub-standard level of navaid provision, particularly in the regions. Other than that... well the only people that think there are differences are the muppets that have never been anywhere else...
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: World
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He means an analogue RMI, and he is absolutely right.
Guys, how on earth do you end up Ryanair bashing in a thread about aviation literally on the other side of the globe. Get it together lads, it's getting ridiculous.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: airside
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JonnyBravo98
Thanks for the reply mate. Much appreciated. It was nice to see the point of view from a KIWI pilot who agrees.
Well this is something I wont have to worry about anymore either so good luck to the others who are trying and to the captains who have the 200houred pilots sitting next to them.
Happy Landings
Well this is something I wont have to worry about anymore either so good luck to the others who are trying and to the captains who have the 200houred pilots sitting next to them.
Happy Landings
