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Parc Aviation's crappy pay for TNT's new B 777 freighter dogs

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Parc Aviation's crappy pay for TNT's new B 777 freighter dogs

Old 27th Jan 2011, 13:00
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Age: 44
Posts: 125
Parc Aviation's crappy pay for TNT's new B 777 freighter dogs

Parc Aviation has an opportunity available for Boeing 777Pilots to be based in Liege, Belgium - Airline Profile: TNT Airways S.A.

Belgium's TNT to lease three Guggenheim 777 freighters

.... that sounds quite attractive to me - until, i read a bit further on ....

REGISTERED IN:Kingdom of Belgium
REQUIREMENT:Boeing 777 Captains an First Officers
COMMENCEMENT DATE: Mid June , with interviews in February / March
DURATION: One Year from June 2011
EXPERIENCE OF PERSONNEL: Boeing777 valid TypeRating,
with 500hrs on type
Valid and Current License and Medical;
Applicants must be current and qualified;
and You must have minmum ICAO Level Four English

... so far - so well, now, i was waiting to see some decent T&Cs. / pay...

Terms and Conditions:

Per month pro rata:
FirstOfficers: EURO €5003.22 per month prorata,
- less the appropriate applicable employee’s social security/
which is min. 4.00% in the case of Ireland

Will be paid to the contractor at the applicable rate as per the TNT Operations Manual.

Block-Hours–subject to maximum of 75 hours per month–subject to a maximum of 100 hours in 30days.
Hours in excess of 75 will be paid at one seventy-fifth of the monthly payment of each excess hour.

A minimum of 8 consecutive days free of duty per month.

TNT Airways shall provide:
Hotel Accommodation whilst on duty at outstations;
Accommodation will be of international airline-standard.

TNT Airways shall provide:
All ground transportation to/from airfields at out stations.
TNT Airways shall provide:
Positive airtransportation at commencement and termination of contract;

Whow --- how bad is that ???

NO accomodation allowance provided at the TNT base in Belgium & NO transport provided there either - for a magre salary of 5.000 Euro - for that extremly exhausting long-haul freight flights towards far east ...
that's unbelievable poor payment - and that's even before TAX !!

Come-on guys, that must be the worst B 777 "Terms and Conditions" ever been offered to fly a wide-body rated B 777 worldwide - for rated an current takers ! Can't believe it - our industry can't get any lower - can't it?

Uuuups -i forgot: those bastards /liars from IntaWay (stay away at all costs !!) offer even less /3.300 Euros !!!) for rated B 777 F/O's to fly for BIMAN in and out of crappy Bangladesh ...
and that's NOT the nicest colony our kingdom ever had ...

Comments ? Takers ? definitively NOT me :
... as i earned already some 50% more bucks- or so - as young F/O with Scandinavian on the MD80 in the early nineties - my thirties ...

Last edited by Cyberbird; 27th Jan 2011 at 13:16.
Cyberbird is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2011, 13:26
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Quahog
Posts: 26

But not to worry, had they offered a pay to fly program there would still be folks lining up, just check out the enquires about Lion Air on this website.
Capt. Glenn Quagmire is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2011, 15:51
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 625
Bad condition

If you want to be legal in all terms you need to pay Tax somewhere.... That means even less money remaining after Tax. Unfortunatly there will be guy´s going for it an lower the threshold for appropriate pay.

If you go to China and fly a B737 you can generate over 15.000$ after Tax for flying freighters there.

The contract is one year only.... and after one year? Too short to consider. As a summary it is easy to say: Too bad terms and conditions, just have the gutts to tell it PARC. I will do it when I get the offer.

Fly safe and land happy
B737NG is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2011, 09:13
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere but not at Home
Posts: 283
flew a lot for PARC.
Was always a good contract, means fair pay etc. For me PARC was good.

W A S good.
Starting since the last few years all, well, almost all contracts they offerd were just poor. the same low pay, same low T and C the same crap like everywhere.
This TNT-contract is just another poor, bad example, that PARC no longer cares to get reasonable T and C for their pilots. Unfortunately.

PARC is no longer what it was before. everytime in the "good old times" PARC was the NAME was a GUARANTEE was a SYNONYM for a good and fair contract.
Today PARC is just down to be like all the rishworths, all the brookfields etc. just VERY SAD.
Who in PARC management is to blame for this bad changes of their previous philosophy

Aviaition and all its T and C are in a constant decline, at least for us, the pilots.

The conditions also like here at TNT is just for desperates pilots only. Let's just wait and see. It can only become better.
Airbus_a321 is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2011, 10:08
  #5 (permalink)  
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Location: on the beach
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If you don't like it, don't take it.

I'm sure there will be ex Arik crews that would will fly for free if they have to.
Evanelpus is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2011, 19:56
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: North of the 49th parallel, eh!
Posts: 219
Two things...one, I fly the 737 and must be visually challenged 'cause I didn't run across any $15000 net Chinese jobs out there. Not to say there aren't any...but can the enlightened masses point me in the right direction?

and two, what's this 5000 and three dollars, 22 cents PRO RATA crap? Hey, three bucks and twenty two cents...I am impressed, that's gotta be a bean counter orgasm. Not to mention getting shanked for February, PRO [email protected]#$%believable....
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Old 28th Jan 2011, 23:27
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 247
Years ago l met the Parc rep. in the Eurostop next to Arlanda. We accepted contracts, he gave me £500 in travellers cheques for expenses.

At the contract end he didn`t ask for it back.

Different world now my friends. A missed call inviting call back is standard.
overun is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2011, 01:08
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,376
Two things...one, I fly the 737 and must be visually challenged 'cause I didn't run across any $15000 net Chinese jobs out there. Not to say there aren't any...but can the enlightened masses point me in the right direction?
Pilot Jobs in China - VOR Holdings - For a Safe Landing in China
Metro man is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2011, 11:06
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somewhere in the sky
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Its Euros not Dollars. In dollars its around 4 bucks and a some cents.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 16:23
  #10 (permalink)  
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Location: Somewhere in the sky
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You're absolutely right, but I was refering only to the 3 euros and 22 cents, not the entire 5,003.22.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 09:41
  #11 (permalink)  
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Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Age: 44
Posts: 125
it goes from really bad to worse ... taxwise ...

As i was interested in flying 777 in europe for a change, i investigated a bit further - and guess waht:

ALL expat - and their respective (PARC-)contracts - are eligable for belgium taxes - as TNT is a belgium airline, as the IRS staff told me on the phone!

... taken from the belgium IRS-site ...

"Expatriates and Belgian citizens alike suffer from one of the highest taxation rates in the EU. In November 2009, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development confirmed once again that Belgium has one of the highest tax burdens in Europe. It amounts to – including social security – 57.3% for a single earner. This compares to an average 44.5% in Europe. An expatriate working in Belgium will typically be liable to Belgian income tax. Additionally, property tax, gift and succession duty may be relevant. In most circumstances there are no capital gains taxes or wealth tax for individuals in Belgium, thus pushing the burden firmly onto the employee"

Whooooowwww - that means, that you will be given a monthly paycheck of LESS than 3000 € per month - for flying a wide-body freighter throughout the nights towards Far East destinations, with their extended dutytimes and no nice CA there, to cheer You up with a hot coffee or chat in the middle of the night over the himalaya mountains ...
and then - on top of it !- You have to pay Your own accomodation in belgium/ Liege plus the transportation to and from work, plus alle shuttle TIX home each month - which sets You off just another grand - minimum;

that means, that You will have definitively LESS than 2000 € left in your pocket - after all the deductions like taxes and housing/ travel whatsoever as PARC AIR burdens all these additional expenses onto the poor contractee's shoulders - that UNREASONABLE poor T&C's - any busdriver in London makes more than that - and is unionized! that's way beyond believe !!
And - as mentioned above - the INTAWAY contract for the B 777 is even worse !!

Last edited by Cyberbird; 3rd Feb 2011 at 10:08.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 10:19
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Location: Up north
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Yea but look at AeroLogic pay for FOs. I don't have the exact numbers but have been told that FOs net somewhere just over 30K euro per year. Perhaps someone from AL can confirm..?
CaptainProp is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2011, 10:21
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The wino at the end of the bar
Posts: 97

Maybe the contract/ package you left behind in EK(Dubai) is starting to look attractive again? Sometimes the devil you know is the better option?

Ex. EK myself. I was happy to join, and happy to leave. Lot`s of fond memories. But one thing I do not miss is all the dreadful backside of the clock work, and I would never seek that type of flying again, unless in absolute desperate need of a job.

The terms of that PARC contract is just an insult, but sadly as someone else pointed out, there will be plenty of takers, hence the bad terms.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 10:22
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 625

I am just off the phone a few minutes ago. I talked to PARC and told them that this pay is not worth to consider and that the rate after tax is below minimum you need to pay to come and go work as well as the Families back home have nothing left to safe for a summer holiday of decent christmas presents. You guess it: I earned laugher. As A321 mentioned earlier we Pilots where seen as a partner earlier, now we are a obstacle in getting to the funds directly.

I am convinced they find a few folks who run into it and after one year they learn the lesson the hard way when the IRS is after them.

Every day there is a fool getting up...... make sure you find it to make your life on someone elses back. That is my impression on the whole story.
B737NG is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2011, 12:24
  #15 (permalink)  
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Years ago, whilst working on a PARC contract, one of my slightly disenchanted colleagues pointed out to me, you do realise what PARC is spelt backwards. . . . .
well, I never found them to be, but this deal they are offering sure is.

It seems to me, with regards to Belgian IRS, that they do not look TOO hard into the affairs of expat airline employees, indeed some of my ex colleagues survived 5 or more years contracting there before awkward questions were asked of their employer vis a vis the temporary nature of a 5 year term. Read into that what you will, latitude or a brown paper bag? who knows. Lots of contractors over the years at JetAirFly ,Brussels Airlines etc, and not too many horror stories of knocks on the door in the middle of the night AFAIK.

Offering this level of renumeration I guess they are figuring you pay your dues in a cheaper place and take advantage of a billateral tax agreement with Belgium, or are hoping no-one stays long enough to get caught, or most likely of all they dont give a stuff.

For sure you need to desperately want to fly this particular type a lot to accept these terms, much better avail in both seats flying a humble 737.

As has been said before, unfortunately they will find takers. I hope that they all have the common sense to use it as a mere stepping stone, and leave TNT with the maximum of contempt and the minimum of notice.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 15:12
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somewhere in the sky
Posts: 151
As soon as we expect we will see advertisements to pay to fly a shiny new B777 and, guess what, they will find someone willing to do it!

It's a pitty, but there's no respect anymore !
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 18:23
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mostly NA
Posts: 20
Seems to me a lot of commercial flying is becoming de-facto single pilot ops, both from qualifications and pay points of view.
ExMedevac is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2011, 02:18
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 22

Looking at the T&Cs offered the last 3 - 4 years there is a clear picture. What was offered 3 years ago for a FO is now what is offered for a CPT. Thats a dramatic decline in very short time. PTF, economic crisis, prostitute pilots and LCs has certainly made heavy dents in our conditions.
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Old 6th Feb 2011, 17:41
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Munich
Posts: 22
I have also called Parc and told them that the conditions are not acceptable, especially considering it is a 1 year contract only. A complete joke! I hope they find no one! How many unemployed 777 pilots are there? Early retirees with pension should be banned to ruin the conditions for everyone else if thats the target group for them! Unbelievable!!!
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Old 11th Feb 2011, 13:14
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Age: 44
Posts: 125
latest news ...

PARC called me the other day to ask, why i haven't yet submitted all my needed docs and forms required for "the new exciting opportunity to fly the B 777 ex Belgium" ..

and - guess what - when i frankly told the recruiter, that i would appply ONLY, if the T&C's would be on par with "industry standard" - i got the answer, that their offer is "de facto" the new standard in the aviation industriy...

- that was to much for me i told him to bugger off - Naffff OFFFF !!

Never in my life i will sign such a poor contract with PARC, unless my family would be starving - and even then, i might consider to work as a busdriver in London instead - that would be about the same payment, but much better conditions - plus union !!

So - for now, i really do hope, the other rated skippers on the 777 tell PARC off as well - otherwise they won't learn their utterly needed lesson...

plus - latest news - the new kids around the blocks - the Intaway buggers - are now recruiting as well 777 skippers for TNT - and apparently offering even LESS quid!!!
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