Ryanair Standbys
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AIMINGHIGH123
Just because we love, well like, what we do does not mean we should put up with reduced pay. In my opinion its not just about the 65K outlay in order to get the job in the first place. Its about responsibility. I take an enormous amount of responsibility as a Captain every time I sign the tech log and fly 189 passengers from A to B safely, and I should be paid accordingly! Otherwise whats the point??
Just because we love, well like, what we do does not mean we should put up with reduced pay. In my opinion its not just about the 65K outlay in order to get the job in the first place. Its about responsibility. I take an enormous amount of responsibility as a Captain every time I sign the tech log and fly 189 passengers from A to B safely, and I should be paid accordingly! Otherwise whats the point??
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Nevermind, I got a yokel to translate.
No, why would they?
How would I know? Do I even care?
Again, I neither know nor care.
If you are able to read then I suggest you have another look at my posts because at no point did I say that I was great because I didn't pay for a job.
Actually I had no contacts but I was lucky enough to get an interview. Even if someone has got contacts somewhere then they still have to pass all the exams and simulator checks don't they? So does that not rely on a minimum standard of intelligence and ability?
Would you kindly show me where I said they should sit and wait?
I hope your three and five times multiplication is better than your subtraction. Or maybe you're one of these twenty year old hot shot children of the magenta line who doesn't need that kind of skill anymore. You can probably quote verbatim your operating manual but when it comes to experience then you are sadly lacking. How long have you been flying?
Your a god! free job fair play..did they give you a medal with it too?
Are they the best of the best Lord Sapndex??
Or is it more just coincidence their family works/worked there???
SO if you want free training then you better no someone very very well..and in that case dont come on spouting off how great you are for not paying!
So come down off your throne into reality because 90% chance your contact got you your job not your ability to fly, and certainly not your brain.
If you entered it years before that then wake up and realise things have changed and dont tell these guys sit and wait and dont pay..because they will be waiting untill the year Christmas falls in July!
you cant debate fact Aer Lingus are set to do about 10 type ratings, they recieved 1500 applicants. Lord Spandex you telling me the 1450 should wait till get time around??
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I'm glad you're not worried Toby, that wasn't my intention, I'm sure everybody appreciates your cyber hug though. However, there must be something wrong because statements of facts don't usually elicit such responses from 'normal' people.
If you can find any post of mine that has "put down" Ryanair or it's employees please do quote it for all to see.
As it stands so far I have stated that there are airlines who do not charge you money to work for them. Do you dispute that fact? I have also said that I am lucky enough to have never paid for any job and this has elicited the most aggressive of reponses. I'm a cun*, apparently, because I haven't had to pay for a job. You can clearly see the responses, do they appear reasonable to you? Now, who's got a chip on their shoulder?
I also asked a pertinent question about Ryanair contracts and minimum number of flying hours. If you have any more revealing information regarding this then please do let everyone know.
Most of your post is just rambling, vitriolic, guff aimed at me. You spend more time composing an attacking post about something you claim you don't give a toss about than the actual subject at hand. Well done.
Finally,
Surely I would have an inferiority complex no? Maybe you should practice your amateur attempts at psychoanalysis in private before you publicly make an arse out of yourself again.
Tobias118118 appears to have deleted his post.
If you can find any post of mine that has "put down" Ryanair or it's employees please do quote it for all to see.
As it stands so far I have stated that there are airlines who do not charge you money to work for them. Do you dispute that fact? I have also said that I am lucky enough to have never paid for any job and this has elicited the most aggressive of reponses. I'm a cun*, apparently, because I haven't had to pay for a job. You can clearly see the responses, do they appear reasonable to you? Now, who's got a chip on their shoulder?
I also asked a pertinent question about Ryanair contracts and minimum number of flying hours. If you have any more revealing information regarding this then please do let everyone know.
Most of your post is just rambling, vitriolic, guff aimed at me. You spend more time composing an attacking post about something you claim you don't give a toss about than the actual subject at hand. Well done.
Finally,
he seems to have a superioty complex probably stemming from when he was a kid and was always last to get picked for someone's team
Tobias118118 appears to have deleted his post.
Last edited by Lord Spandex Masher; 18th Dec 2010 at 15:37.
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Coming on here telling people it's wrong to pay for type and to wait for the tiny percentage of jobs for which you need a huge contact to get is acting like your better then others! Your in and didn't pay and your quite happy to see nobody else get a job! Your attitudes all wrong Spandex! Obvious you havent been faced with issues new guys have and your too stuck up to give them advice, good advice "wait and don't pay" is pathetic advice
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A) You do not need a 'contact' to get a job which does not require paying for.
B) At no point did I say wait for a job. I was asked a question and I answered it.
C) Why does suggesting that you shouldn't pay for a type rating mean I'm better than others?
D) What makes you think I'm happy to see nobody get a job?
E) I don't have an attitude. I have an opinion. If you're not happy listening to other opinions and stamp and shout every time someone disagrees with you how on earth do you cope in the sim?
F) It may well be pathetic advice which is why I didn't offer it as such.
G) Wanna answer this yet?
H) Would you rather my advice was 'Yeah just pay through the nose for a job you haven't earned'? No need because that's what you've done anyway.
B) At no point did I say wait for a job. I was asked a question and I answered it.
C) Why does suggesting that you shouldn't pay for a type rating mean I'm better than others?
D) What makes you think I'm happy to see nobody get a job?
E) I don't have an attitude. I have an opinion. If you're not happy listening to other opinions and stamp and shout every time someone disagrees with you how on earth do you cope in the sim?
F) It may well be pathetic advice which is why I didn't offer it as such.
G) Wanna answer this yet?
Even if someone has got contacts somewhere then they still have to pass all the exams and simulator checks don't they? So does that not rely on a minimum standard of intelligence and ability?
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RYR are the fast track scheme into the biz. I would have been happy to take it had I been called. But they never called.
There are jobs out there but working yourself up to the airlines is a lot more painful as you progress through the ranks ever so much slower.
I had effed around two years in the GA but eventually succeeded when I got hired by a major, against all odds. Modular training, early 30s. Boy it was tough! Keeping up faith was the hardest of all. In fact, worse than my IR training!
So far I have not had to pay for anything, all been paid for by the company. No, I had not known someone on the inside before I got hired. All down to my own efforts.
That constant battle between pro and contra RYR is really good stuff to read, pretty entertaining actually, however it leads to nowhere. Some people don't mind paying for the rating, some people do. Personally, I favor a company putting it out first, as there's only very little motivation for them to get rid of the investment again and that's great to know.
There are jobs out there but working yourself up to the airlines is a lot more painful as you progress through the ranks ever so much slower.
I had effed around two years in the GA but eventually succeeded when I got hired by a major, against all odds. Modular training, early 30s. Boy it was tough! Keeping up faith was the hardest of all. In fact, worse than my IR training!
So far I have not had to pay for anything, all been paid for by the company. No, I had not known someone on the inside before I got hired. All down to my own efforts. That constant battle between pro and contra RYR is really good stuff to read, pretty entertaining actually, however it leads to nowhere. Some people don't mind paying for the rating, some people do. Personally, I favor a company putting it out first, as there's only very little motivation for them to get rid of the investment again and that's great to know.
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Why's that???
Maybe I should have mentioned I had not bothered with RYR for 18 months after finishing my training as I believed their deal was crap. However, after more than a year seeing myself pass interviews (note use of plural) but only thrown in holding pools, getting older but only logging SE time and not getting paid for my efforts I had started to think about eventually biting the bullet and applying to the 'devil.'
Luckily, I had not been called, instead got an interview out of the blue with my current outfit and after passing all got hired - happy end.
The willingness to sign up for the RYR deal was based on pure frustration and just trying to explore all options. I actually do not know whether I would have really gone for it and spent another 30k. The thought of having no rights and the possibilty of getting shown the door despite the investment of 30 grand scared me big time.
However, that said I have a few friends, who have been FOs with RYR for nearly two years now and, as much as many might hate to read it, they are doing great. No, their employer does not pay for the uniform nor for parking or sim rides, yet their net take-home is a great deal more than mine and, on top, they are logging jet time.
Still, am I jealous or do I want to be in their shoes? No.
Maybe I should have mentioned I had not bothered with RYR for 18 months after finishing my training as I believed their deal was crap. However, after more than a year seeing myself pass interviews (note use of plural) but only thrown in holding pools, getting older but only logging SE time and not getting paid for my efforts I had started to think about eventually biting the bullet and applying to the 'devil.'
Luckily, I had not been called, instead got an interview out of the blue with my current outfit and after passing all got hired - happy end.
The willingness to sign up for the RYR deal was based on pure frustration and just trying to explore all options. I actually do not know whether I would have really gone for it and spent another 30k. The thought of having no rights and the possibilty of getting shown the door despite the investment of 30 grand scared me big time.
However, that said I have a few friends, who have been FOs with RYR for nearly two years now and, as much as many might hate to read it, they are doing great. No, their employer does not pay for the uniform nor for parking or sim rides, yet their net take-home is a great deal more than mine and, on top, they are logging jet time.
Still, am I jealous or do I want to be in their shoes? No.
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Surely not! However, in all fairness, none of my friends has ever complained about being given a dozen or two standbys a month. Then again, when people have made the wrong decision, do they say? Most don't. If that two dozen standbys practice does occur in RYR than that IS bad, very bad.
Again, I am happy to NOT have had to take that route.
Again, I am happy to NOT have had to take that route.
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FO , 80 hrs in December. What's all the fuss about?
November hours are always low, but you still average 750 hrs per year in the right seat.
Nothing wrong with that.
A few slow weeks in winter worth a thread on pprune?
Come on.
November hours are always low, but you still average 750 hrs per year in the right seat.
Nothing wrong with that.
A few slow weeks in winter worth a thread on pprune?
Come on.
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It's quite apparent that this is your attitude towards low hour professional pilots anyway.
Where has low houred professional pilots ever come into it? Just how bad is your reading comprehension?
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There's no luck involved at all Irishpilot1990. I'll wager you haven't breached second or third payscale yet. You're cheaper than an FO with more hours, so you fly more.
Once you have more hours you'll see those nicely filled rosters dwindle in favor of the new cadets at your base.
Mr. Spandex: People do what they must to get on in life. Sometimes that requires sacrifices, something which nobody likes. You're entitled to your own opinion as is everyone. From previous posts of yours though I can't help but sense a pertinent, be it quite subtle, condescending attitude towards people willing to join schemes such as Ryanair's. Unless I am misinterpreting that, in which case disregard my post, where I live it's considered reputable to come out for one's opinion openly and fully. Not by hiding behind phrases like "that's not what I said."
Regardless of all that, remember we are all colleagues who share the same passion and love for flying. The paint on the outside of the fuselage shouldn't matter when it comes to how we treat eachother.
disclaimer: English is my 3rd language. No references to errors in spelling or grammar, please.
Once you have more hours you'll see those nicely filled rosters dwindle in favor of the new cadets at your base.
Mr. Spandex: People do what they must to get on in life. Sometimes that requires sacrifices, something which nobody likes. You're entitled to your own opinion as is everyone. From previous posts of yours though I can't help but sense a pertinent, be it quite subtle, condescending attitude towards people willing to join schemes such as Ryanair's. Unless I am misinterpreting that, in which case disregard my post, where I live it's considered reputable to come out for one's opinion openly and fully. Not by hiding behind phrases like "that's not what I said."
Regardless of all that, remember we are all colleagues who share the same passion and love for flying. The paint on the outside of the fuselage shouldn't matter when it comes to how we treat eachother.
disclaimer: English is my 3rd language. No references to errors in spelling or grammar, please.
Last edited by d105; 19th Dec 2010 at 13:16.
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Sorry guys, just one more post taking this off-topic a bit.
studi, Where are those many jobs out there? Personally, I cannot see them. It's always just a handful, who get the break. Often times, many of whom already with experience and just jumping ship. Opportunities for people fresh out of the press are rare. And it stays that way even in good times. I see you are Germany based so I take it you are flying for LH? I know a few people affiliated with that outfit, too and I can confirm I have also come across that figure. However, we all know all too well selections conducted by a legacy are ever so much harder to pass and only a very few make it through. Fact is, a great many will not end up getting paid to fly at all, let alone making a profit out of their 50k plus investment. So I don't think it's fair to blame those people looking but unable to land themselves a proper flying job. Yes, I also believe there are a lot of 'whiners' out there but the truth is, the number of qualified folks exceeds by far the number of jobs. It is something wannabes must be (made) aware of!
Please also note, not everyone passes the RYR interview. I have heard of and spoken myself with several people that have been sent home. In fact, one of my best friends passed their interview and was one of eight, if I recall correctly, on the day of the interview. As far as he's concerned only he himself and one or two others have been given the go-ahead. RYR's interview procedure is highly selective. You must know your stuff to be taken onboard and it's not like you just hand over 30k to be offered the job. Another friend, OAA graduate, is telling me of former coursemates being sent home, who initially have been awarded for their performance while training. RYR just could not afford to employ flight crew, who they believe are not the right material.
Given themerve's figures I can say this:
I have been bonded for twelve months to an amount of 30k. My take-home is between 20-23k p.a. On top of that, my employer pays into a state pension scheme. So should I already walk after 12 months, which I do not intend for obvious reasons since I am extremley happy with my situation, I have earned around 50k in my first year. However, given only a payrise of net 2,700 a year, it would then be "only" 73k in two years. After another year, and another 2,700 net payrise, it is now nearly 100k take-home in 3 years. Hours flown varies from base to base but is said to be around 600-800.
On the other hand the RYR deal (I stand to be corrected, please!): Given 35k net take-home (after all has been paid for RYR do not bother paying for) and an annual 7k payrise in the second and third year (I cannot say if there is another, higher pay rise in the third year with the company), the average RYR FO is looking at around 125k in three years. However, he must have flown 750 hours to earn that figure and shall not get sick, etc. TR costs 26k after tax refund so net take-home also is around 100k in three years.
To be honest, after looking at the numbers now I am quite surprised myself, as I have never compared in detail my and the RYR deal. However, please note my contract also entails a performance-based element. I will have to fly a certain amount of hours to make end's meet. And I am not logging 738 time.
As said before, early this year I would have been thrilled to take the RYR deal but now I am so glad I have never had to bother. Job and financial security are priceless. That being said though, I feel with those looking. If, after having spent all that money and dragging yourself through that intense training, you just do not get a sniff at any flying job at all, you do start thinking...
Now back to topic!
studi, Where are those many jobs out there? Personally, I cannot see them. It's always just a handful, who get the break. Often times, many of whom already with experience and just jumping ship. Opportunities for people fresh out of the press are rare. And it stays that way even in good times. I see you are Germany based so I take it you are flying for LH? I know a few people affiliated with that outfit, too and I can confirm I have also come across that figure. However, we all know all too well selections conducted by a legacy are ever so much harder to pass and only a very few make it through. Fact is, a great many will not end up getting paid to fly at all, let alone making a profit out of their 50k plus investment. So I don't think it's fair to blame those people looking but unable to land themselves a proper flying job. Yes, I also believe there are a lot of 'whiners' out there but the truth is, the number of qualified folks exceeds by far the number of jobs. It is something wannabes must be (made) aware of!
Please also note, not everyone passes the RYR interview. I have heard of and spoken myself with several people that have been sent home. In fact, one of my best friends passed their interview and was one of eight, if I recall correctly, on the day of the interview. As far as he's concerned only he himself and one or two others have been given the go-ahead. RYR's interview procedure is highly selective. You must know your stuff to be taken onboard and it's not like you just hand over 30k to be offered the job. Another friend, OAA graduate, is telling me of former coursemates being sent home, who initially have been awarded for their performance while training. RYR just could not afford to employ flight crew, who they believe are not the right material.
Given themerve's figures I can say this:
I have been bonded for twelve months to an amount of 30k. My take-home is between 20-23k p.a. On top of that, my employer pays into a state pension scheme. So should I already walk after 12 months, which I do not intend for obvious reasons since I am extremley happy with my situation, I have earned around 50k in my first year. However, given only a payrise of net 2,700 a year, it would then be "only" 73k in two years. After another year, and another 2,700 net payrise, it is now nearly 100k take-home in 3 years. Hours flown varies from base to base but is said to be around 600-800.
On the other hand the RYR deal (I stand to be corrected, please!): Given 35k net take-home (after all has been paid for RYR do not bother paying for) and an annual 7k payrise in the second and third year (I cannot say if there is another, higher pay rise in the third year with the company), the average RYR FO is looking at around 125k in three years. However, he must have flown 750 hours to earn that figure and shall not get sick, etc. TR costs 26k after tax refund so net take-home also is around 100k in three years.
To be honest, after looking at the numbers now I am quite surprised myself, as I have never compared in detail my and the RYR deal. However, please note my contract also entails a performance-based element. I will have to fly a certain amount of hours to make end's meet. And I am not logging 738 time.
As said before, early this year I would have been thrilled to take the RYR deal but now I am so glad I have never had to bother. Job and financial security are priceless. That being said though, I feel with those looking. If, after having spent all that money and dragging yourself through that intense training, you just do not get a sniff at any flying job at all, you do start thinking...
Now back to topic!
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d105, I'm not hiding behind phrases I am pointing out, in the interest of clarity, that what some posters here think I have said isn't what I actually said, or implied.
themerve, you can't go around putting words into other peoples' mouths. The word I used was earned, the word you used was deserve. There is a difference. Of course if somebody is holding a position they obviously deserve to be there, it's how they got there, in this instance, that is in question.
No I have never seen the Ryanair entry requirements, are they the same for all the other airlines you've mentioned? Still, you miss my point, I am not anti Ryanair, or it's employees, or low hour pilots as I fly with them every day. I am anti paying for a job.
Yes you paid for training. Training that the airline required you to complete. Without such training you would not have a job. So, you can sugar coat it as much as you like but you still paid to get a job. Why else would you have given an airline thirty odd grand? Out of the goodness of your heart?
Exactly, they have earned nothing, they bought their position, and now they are receiving nothing - or very little, as you appear to be getting a good few standbys. You're on standby whilst the new, cheaper version of you is getting some time in, when they get expensive they will be getting more standbys while the new, cheaper version of them is getting sometime in. Remember, minimum hours was not stated in your contract was it. I actually have some sympathy for you as you expected your thirty odd grand to be an investment and sadly it has turned out to be an expensive way of sitting around while other people go flying.
It appears that you have difficulty in comprehending the Ryanair business. For example, in extremis, Ryanair could employ a million pilots and fly only one aeroplane. It doesn't matter to them as they only pay you when you fly. Otherwise there is no cost to the airline when there is no need for you to fly.
Finally, my posts on this thread are mostly as an answer to a question or a statement of fact or my opinion. They are not considered advice.
themerve, you can't go around putting words into other peoples' mouths. The word I used was earned, the word you used was deserve. There is a difference. Of course if somebody is holding a position they obviously deserve to be there, it's how they got there, in this instance, that is in question.
No I have never seen the Ryanair entry requirements, are they the same for all the other airlines you've mentioned? Still, you miss my point, I am not anti Ryanair, or it's employees, or low hour pilots as I fly with them every day. I am anti paying for a job.
Yes you paid for training. Training that the airline required you to complete. Without such training you would not have a job. So, you can sugar coat it as much as you like but you still paid to get a job. Why else would you have given an airline thirty odd grand? Out of the goodness of your heart?
They have earned all they shall receive
It appears that you have difficulty in comprehending the Ryanair business. For example, in extremis, Ryanair could employ a million pilots and fly only one aeroplane. It doesn't matter to them as they only pay you when you fly. Otherwise there is no cost to the airline when there is no need for you to fly.
Finally, my posts on this thread are mostly as an answer to a question or a statement of fact or my opinion. They are not considered advice.
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Guys, there's a saying that goes "never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." So do us all a favour and just ignore whatever lord spandex posts. Maybe then we can keep to the topic.
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Tell you what, you could just ignore everyone who has ever disagreed with you or everyone who may have a different opinion to you.
Bet you have some lively discussions then.
Fingers in ears na na na na na na na I can't hear you
Bet you have some lively discussions then.
Fingers in ears na na na na na na na I can't hear you
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I am anti paying for a job.
Yes you paid for training. Training that the airline required you to complete. Without such training you would not have a job. So, you can sugar coat it as much as you like but you still paid to get a job. Why else would you have given an airline thirty odd grand? Out of the goodness of your heart?
Yes you paid for training. Training that the airline required you to complete. Without such training you would not have a job. So, you can sugar coat it as much as you like but you still paid to get a job. Why else would you have given an airline thirty odd grand? Out of the goodness of your heart?
I had to pay for my licenses, PPL, CPL, IR,(ATPL came later), all company I asked required me to have license before hiring me, none wanted to pay for it. Without such training I would not have a job.
So you can say I paid to get a job(even if I never had to pay for a rating).
Good for you that someone else paid for all your training.
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Hello chaps,
Been I while and i've rather enjoyed it but to clarify,
Highest hours month was June for me 78hrs averaged 67hrs per month for July, August and September.
Now, as I stated before, I require to fly 52hrs to break even on all bills, private pension, tax, training loan etc.
Now over the summer months that has allowed me to bank 71hrs for my month off. As stated 52hrs to break even so leaves me 19hrs banked for my 2blocks of 5 days.
November 38hrs, December 35hrs. So already I'm 31hrs in deficite to what I need to break even never mind put away all this extra which a few have stated is so easy to do. So please tell me where I go from here?
There are a few guys at the base the same as me yet there a few doing my December hours in a week. Send a email to rostering results in a canaries flight wiped off and a standby changed to an MMM. Awesome. Nice and fair.
To those twats with 80-90hrs this month I'm alright Jack attitude, thats that poison the rest of the industry complains about!
Been I while and i've rather enjoyed it but to clarify,
Highest hours month was June for me 78hrs averaged 67hrs per month for July, August and September.
Now, as I stated before, I require to fly 52hrs to break even on all bills, private pension, tax, training loan etc.
Now over the summer months that has allowed me to bank 71hrs for my month off. As stated 52hrs to break even so leaves me 19hrs banked for my 2blocks of 5 days.
November 38hrs, December 35hrs. So already I'm 31hrs in deficite to what I need to break even never mind put away all this extra which a few have stated is so easy to do. So please tell me where I go from here?
There are a few guys at the base the same as me yet there a few doing my December hours in a week. Send a email to rostering results in a canaries flight wiped off and a standby changed to an MMM. Awesome. Nice and fair.
To those twats with 80-90hrs this month I'm alright Jack attitude, thats that poison the rest of the industry complains about!