What is going on with Olympic Air ????
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5 RINGS.....
First of all, VFR flights are allowed to small crafts....and is very common in LGGG.
I dont know, if you chaps from UK know how a plane flies without the usage of FMC's, FMGS, MCDU's and all that crap, but once I gave the opportunity to a fellow chap from UK, to make a visual approach in LGIR, and he lost himself ....Actually, new "era" teaches "computer and panel operators", the old era, as I am, was teaching real aviators...
According to the capt. who did this, I know also a brit, cpt, who miscalculate the hdwind, coming inbound to LHR, and he miss the runway, for a couple of hundred yards, due to fuel starvation...
This same day I was also inbound to LHR, with A340, and had 2,5 tons more fuel on board for hdw....
I was "lucky" and landed a few minutes earlier, with some fuel in my tanks...
First of all, VFR flights are allowed to small crafts....and is very common in LGGG.
I dont know, if you chaps from UK know how a plane flies without the usage of FMC's, FMGS, MCDU's and all that crap, but once I gave the opportunity to a fellow chap from UK, to make a visual approach in LGIR, and he lost himself ....Actually, new "era" teaches "computer and panel operators", the old era, as I am, was teaching real aviators...
According to the capt. who did this, I know also a brit, cpt, who miscalculate the hdwind, coming inbound to LHR, and he miss the runway, for a couple of hundred yards, due to fuel starvation...
This same day I was also inbound to LHR, with A340, and had 2,5 tons more fuel on board for hdw....
I was "lucky" and landed a few minutes earlier, with some fuel in my tanks...
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OXOGEKAS340, what are you on about ? who missed the runway in LHR by a few hundred yards due to fuel starvation ? ?
Just in case you are alluding to a BA B777 3 and a half years ago, please please don't make a total tw@t of yourself by going down that road.
Just in case you are alluding to a BA B777 3 and a half years ago, please please don't make a total tw@t of yourself by going down that road.
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I dont know, if you chaps from UK know how a plane flies without the usage of FMC's, FMGS, MCDU's and all that crap
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OXOGEKAS340
I talk CRM/flight management to you and you reply stick and rudder.
It(s not because flying VFR in LGGG is common that it's a good idea. It's like wearing a helmet when riding a bike in Athens...everybody gives it a miss, but is it really the way to go?
I'm no newbie either, so please save me your 'old generation real pilot' rubbish...I too flew good old reliable aircraft with steam gauges instead of a start of the art FMS.
I really enjoyed flying in that part of the world, that was a very good professionnal experience.
But how come that a high caliber professionnal like yourself with hours on 340, went to Sri Lankan? no offense to this amazing country, the company downsides are world famous...
I talk CRM/flight management to you and you reply stick and rudder.
It(s not because flying VFR in LGGG is common that it's a good idea. It's like wearing a helmet when riding a bike in Athens...everybody gives it a miss, but is it really the way to go?
I'm no newbie either, so please save me your 'old generation real pilot' rubbish...I too flew good old reliable aircraft with steam gauges instead of a start of the art FMS.
I really enjoyed flying in that part of the world, that was a very good professionnal experience.
But how come that a high caliber professionnal like yourself with hours on 340, went to Sri Lankan? no offense to this amazing country, the company downsides are world famous...
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Yes, i am talking about this incident with the 777 who missed the 27L by a hundred yards...I am not so stupid (I do not have Alzheimer's till now..) to listen thousands of craps stating millions possible causes for engines flame-out due to fuel starvation.
According to CRM, well, in a mass of aviators, I am sure that there is a number of them, who do not respect the CRM. Maybe this was the case, for the particular captain.
According to "stick & rudder", older generation pilots, where more aviators...New generation p ilots, are more SOP's funs, and "infected" by the computers....I was also trained in UK, OATS, some 30 years ago. And I was teached to fly with needles an radials, instead of FMS...(at this time FMS was something out of our minds).
About srilankan, there is another post....and for your info, i am flying at the moment 737 and not 340...which i hope to fly again in a few weeks.
You see, this are the problems after OLYMPIC AIRLINES closure....
According to CRM, well, in a mass of aviators, I am sure that there is a number of them, who do not respect the CRM. Maybe this was the case, for the particular captain.
According to "stick & rudder", older generation pilots, where more aviators...New generation p ilots, are more SOP's funs, and "infected" by the computers....I was also trained in UK, OATS, some 30 years ago. And I was teached to fly with needles an radials, instead of FMS...(at this time FMS was something out of our minds).
About srilankan, there is another post....and for your info, i am flying at the moment 737 and not 340...which i hope to fly again in a few weeks.
You see, this are the problems after OLYMPIC AIRLINES closure....
Yes, i am talking about this incident with the 777 who missed the 27L by a hundred yards...I am not so stupid (I do not have Alzheimer's till now..) to listen thousands of craps stating millions possible causes for engines flame-out due to fuel starvation.
PB had plenty of fuel in his tanks and too much ice in his fuel filters.
That you cold make the totally ridiculous statement above puts you in the very bottom of any barrel when it comes to relevance...
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OXOGEKAS340 - It is clearly difficult for you to realise how much of a laughing stock you are making of yourself by your woefully ignorant and staggeringly foolish assertions. Your views are total fantasy and lack one shred of credible evidence to support them. Comments such as yours from someone purporting to be a B737/A340 captain are truly jaw-dropping for any professional pilot to read. Alas, you are thereby demonstrating that the worst fears of others outside your nation about the capabilities and judgements of those within it are totally correct. Your comments do more than any other post on this thread to damage the reputation of your country and its aviation community.
You may genuinely believe that British Airways, Boeing, Rolls Royce, the AAIB, the NTSB plus the various other agencies and companies involved are all liars and have conspired together to concoct a story to protect the UK national interest. The reams of technical evidence assembled to support the claims of the aforementioned people are no doubt falsified and large bribes have obviously been paid to numerous individuals and agencies to prevent the truth from coming out. There is another alternative, that in your quieter moments you may wish to consider - you are in fact a cretin who lacks judgement and is unfit to hold the position you claim to have. I wonder which of those options any rational person reading your comments is going to choose......
You may genuinely believe that British Airways, Boeing, Rolls Royce, the AAIB, the NTSB plus the various other agencies and companies involved are all liars and have conspired together to concoct a story to protect the UK national interest. The reams of technical evidence assembled to support the claims of the aforementioned people are no doubt falsified and large bribes have obviously been paid to numerous individuals and agencies to prevent the truth from coming out. There is another alternative, that in your quieter moments you may wish to consider - you are in fact a cretin who lacks judgement and is unfit to hold the position you claim to have. I wonder which of those options any rational person reading your comments is going to choose......
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Norman- I wouldn't go that far! They do say that the CVR and FDR on the
AirFrance A320 that crashed during the airshow were switched, in the interest of national and economical security (Airbus & Air France).
I don't agree with everything OXYGEKAS writes, but for only one 777 to have ice build up in its fuel filters with temperatures in the UK that rarely go below freezing at 8000', they will have to try a lot harder to make me believe that.
Don't forget that there is a lot of rich people's money on the line, and they wouldn't be happy to lose it.
Accident or not, we will never know....we can only read the investigation report, and hope everyone reported what they knew...we are just pawns.
Before anyone starts trying to comment on what I have said, its my opinion.
I worked as Capt in the Uk and Greece. I have not noticed one difference in either countries way of flying planes! Bad guys here, bad guys there! Great guys here, great guys there!
So lets stop bickering about who's pilots are pillocks, because its a fair share.....now back to Olympic.....PLEASE!
AirFrance A320 that crashed during the airshow were switched, in the interest of national and economical security (Airbus & Air France).
I don't agree with everything OXYGEKAS writes, but for only one 777 to have ice build up in its fuel filters with temperatures in the UK that rarely go below freezing at 8000', they will have to try a lot harder to make me believe that.
Don't forget that there is a lot of rich people's money on the line, and they wouldn't be happy to lose it.
Accident or not, we will never know....we can only read the investigation report, and hope everyone reported what they knew...we are just pawns.
Before anyone starts trying to comment on what I have said, its my opinion.
I worked as Capt in the Uk and Greece. I have not noticed one difference in either countries way of flying planes! Bad guys here, bad guys there! Great guys here, great guys there!
So lets stop bickering about who's pilots are pillocks, because its a fair share.....now back to Olympic.....PLEASE!
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YYZ Instructor - sorry mate but you are absolutely wrong. You cannot state 'accident or not - we will never know' and expect everyone else to accept that there is some doubt on the issue. In so doing you are accepting the possibility of widespread corrpution at every level of the UK and US accident investigation system - that is not something I can comfortably leave unchallenged. If you have the slightest evidence to suggest that the BA crash is not as it has been stated by the AAIB, let us hear it. If not, as I am 100% sure is the case, you should not be lowering yourself to the 'B52 found on the Moon' level occupied by most conspiracy theorists. It gives credence to the lunatic fringe end of aviation - in this case an Olympic pilot who is stating as fact things that are demonstrably not the case. If you lower yourself to accepting a basic premise that all aviation in the world is the same and that the corruption endemic in various parts of the world is also prevalent here then you can start to believe the issues are the same everywhere. That is absolutely not the case and is at the centre of this whole thread. Incorrect and inaccurate information must be tackled if we are to arrive at a sensible conclusion. As I have stated previously, show me one scrap of evidence to support these views. The world is full of conspiracy theories - I am completely open to each and every one of them on a case by case basis, if there is a shred of evidence to support them. In this case there is not, and you being complicit in the ludicrous accusations just takes the heat off the issues being discussed.
More importantly the type of characters on display here are at the root of the problems at Olympic - employees living in cloud cuckoo land for year upon year while their company languished in overt bankruptcy, kept afloat by handouts from the state. Many of those now in management at the new Olympic are the same people who were in and around Olympic Airways, and are now using the same practices that led them into difficulty in the first place.
This thread is about the behaviour of a management culture and there are people on here questioning much of what passes for normality in Greek business and aviation practice. Rather than address the issues, there are employees of Olympic turning to the insane end of the scale, and thereby doing enormous damage to their own cause. I will therefore continue to challenge the suggestions being made here by yourself and others, since they have no evidence to support them.
More importantly the type of characters on display here are at the root of the problems at Olympic - employees living in cloud cuckoo land for year upon year while their company languished in overt bankruptcy, kept afloat by handouts from the state. Many of those now in management at the new Olympic are the same people who were in and around Olympic Airways, and are now using the same practices that led them into difficulty in the first place.
This thread is about the behaviour of a management culture and there are people on here questioning much of what passes for normality in Greek business and aviation practice. Rather than address the issues, there are employees of Olympic turning to the insane end of the scale, and thereby doing enormous damage to their own cause. I will therefore continue to challenge the suggestions being made here by yourself and others, since they have no evidence to support them.
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 11th Nov 2010 at 13:28.
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Norman, relax...
I never said it wasn't an accident. Everyone can read the AIB report and make of it what they want.
About corruption: its everywhere....more than you think..
live with it or live not knowing it.
Good luck
I never said it wasn't an accident. Everyone can read the AIB report and make of it what they want.
About corruption: its everywhere....more than you think..
live with it or live not knowing it.
Good luck
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YYZ
temperatures in the UK that rarely go below freezing at 8000',
I think you may have missed the point about the fuel starvation, it was little to do with UK temperature at the time. I also think you are either drunk or a bit of a fool.
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NSF, maybe you don't know the word "corruption"....
Well, if you believe that the reason of the engines shut-down of the 777 was the ice in the pumps, then i will throw my licenses into the bin, and will never fly again!
You make me laugh with all this crap!
If this 777 was Olympic, or another smaller airliner, then the explanation of the incident, would be completely different...
I may be greek, but i am not stupid, to believe all this crap!
Sorry mate!
Well, if you believe that the reason of the engines shut-down of the 777 was the ice in the pumps, then i will throw my licenses into the bin, and will never fly again!
You make me laugh with all this crap!
If this 777 was Olympic, or another smaller airliner, then the explanation of the incident, would be completely different...
I may be greek, but i am not stupid, to believe all this crap!
Sorry mate!
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NSF, you are not only arrogant, but also ......
First of all, ex Olympic pilots are NOT in the "new" Olympic's flight decks. Only 40 among the 450 joined the new company, which has nothing to do with the old Olympic.
You are too "small" to understand what happened to OA, since 1989 and the liquidation of the company....
I was lucky, extremely lucky, thanks God, that I joined this grate airline since 1982. There will be no olympic anymore, and the way we operate.
I know, this made us "enemies" to most of our ex-competitors..
You must first know the facts, and then write about what happens.
In this company, no one of the management is ex-Olympic, except the chief pilot, whose role is just typical.
Most of the others are from Aegean....
So, before you write something, give some time to your brain, so your hand doesn't write things that are into your imagination.
First of all, ex Olympic pilots are NOT in the "new" Olympic's flight decks. Only 40 among the 450 joined the new company, which has nothing to do with the old Olympic.
You are too "small" to understand what happened to OA, since 1989 and the liquidation of the company....
I was lucky, extremely lucky, thanks God, that I joined this grate airline since 1982. There will be no olympic anymore, and the way we operate.
I know, this made us "enemies" to most of our ex-competitors..
You must first know the facts, and then write about what happens.
In this company, no one of the management is ex-Olympic, except the chief pilot, whose role is just typical.
Most of the others are from Aegean....
So, before you write something, give some time to your brain, so your hand doesn't write things that are into your imagination.
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NSF, maybe you don't know the word "corruption"....
But don't make the mistake of taking that as the normal behavior in other parts of europe. Mistakes are done everywhere, how you cope with them and how upfront you are about them is the difference.
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Denti....i see....corruption is not known in your country, yeah?
Well don't let me to remind you, that first your country has to return to us the stollen marbles of Parthenon....and then you may be in the position to discuss the word "corruption"....
Well don't let me to remind you, that first your country has to return to us the stollen marbles of Parthenon....and then you may be in the position to discuss the word "corruption"....
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Well don't let me to remind you, that first your country has to return to us the stollen marbles of Parthenon....
Of course this is the same like paying 50€ extra to see a doctor with your sick child!
Of course this is the same like paying 50€ extra to see a doctor with your sick child!
