Virgin recruiting soon...
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Riskybis if it makes you feel any better I slightly disagree with Bex I think job losses at BA are inevitable at this point. The gravity of the situation facing us as an industry right now and the unknown of when and how this can “recover” I think strongly implies that, despite us not wanting to contemplate it. The whole question is by how much it can be mitigated by part time and retirements and how much the stop on recruitment this year will also help the situation. They’re (Jason Mahoney anyway) talking about being back up at 80% capacity by Christmas but I think that’s completely living in fantasyland right now. I’ve got my own thoughts and worries about the number and how it would be done but I’m not going to share them because it’s completely without any foundation at this point and would only be adding to what a stressful time it already is.
Last edited by RexBanner; 18th Apr 2020 at 09:11.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 42
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rex.....I was trying to be positive 
but honestly I don’t see how we will keep everyone in the short term. If we do have some CR let’s just hope it can be a career break with a option to return. I have said it before and I’ll repeat myself. I’ll take some pain so we don’t see some completely screwed. I don’t think anyone can say they are safe through seniority.
Now the skill bite session, attendance was good........
Hopefully Virgin guys can come together to protect their jobs, if not future career prospects
but honestly I don’t see how we will keep everyone in the short term. If we do have some CR let’s just hope it can be a career break with a option to return. I have said it before and I’ll repeat myself. I’ll take some pain so we don’t see some completely screwed. I don’t think anyone can say they are safe through seniority.Now the skill bite session, attendance was good........
Hopefully Virgin guys can come together to protect their jobs, if not future career prospects
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rex.....I was trying to be positive but honestly I don’t see how we will keep everyone in the short term. If we do have some CR let’s just hope it can be a career break with a option to return. I have said it before and I’ll repeat myself. I’ll take some pain so we don’t see some completely screwed. I don’t think anyone can say they are safe through seniority.
Now the skill bite session, attendance was good........
Hopefully Virgin guys can come together to protect their jobs, if not future career prospects
but honestly I don’t see how we will keep everyone in the short term. If we do have some CR let’s just hope it can be a career break with a option to return. I have said it before and I’ll repeat myself. I’ll take some pain so we don’t see some completely screwed. I don’t think anyone can say they are safe through seniority.Now the skill bite session, attendance was good........
Hopefully Virgin guys can come together to protect their jobs, if not future career prospects
I would happily take a sabbatical and be a HGV driver or whatever, just be nice to have something to return to in the future
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can't really regret something that you couldn't foresee.
Certainly focuses the mind somewhat for future "chasing the dream" airline package. Cargo and Air Ambulance looks pretty safe right now....despite the perceived lack of glamour.
Certainly focuses the mind somewhat for future "chasing the dream" airline package. Cargo and Air Ambulance looks pretty safe right now....despite the perceived lack of glamour.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have faith RB
no one has mentioned the 20% everyone seems to be going on about! Yes the will be job losses unfortunately BUT there are a lot of people retiring, Managed exit, part time and a workforce pay cut will see a good few jobs saved! It’s a horrible time! But try to stay positive.
If the axe does fall on you or me I’ll be taking, if possible the unpaid leave option (they’ve done this in the past)
Good luck to all!
no one has mentioned the 20% everyone seems to be going on about! Yes the will be job losses unfortunately BUT there are a lot of people retiring, Managed exit, part time and a workforce pay cut will see a good few jobs saved! It’s a horrible time! But try to stay positive.
If the axe does fall on you or me I’ll be taking, if possible the unpaid leave option (they’ve done this in the past)
Good luck to all!
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
20% certainly seems to be a number thrown around a lot at the moment, seemingly with no foundation. Someone in BA mentioned 80% capacity by Christmas - this does not automatically mean they're about to chop 20% of the airline. What about after that?
It's difficult not to chastise oneself over decisions made that in retrospect now look like the wrong ones. I dare say I'd have been considerably more secure at my previous airline than where I now sit on the MSL at BA. You make the best decision you can based on all the information you have available at the time. Had you turned down a move based on fear of a global pandemic threatening jobs, you'd have been branded insane.
Ultimately no-one knows how this will ride out. If there's a vaccine developed in the timescale some reports seem to suggest, it may not be as long as some of the pessimists would have you believe.
As has been mentioned I expect lots of options are being looked at, in every airline, to protect as many jobs as possible. I sincerely hope that pilots at the top of seniority lists, with no mortgage and big pension pots, are having a long hard look in the mirror right now.
It's difficult not to chastise oneself over decisions made that in retrospect now look like the wrong ones. I dare say I'd have been considerably more secure at my previous airline than where I now sit on the MSL at BA. You make the best decision you can based on all the information you have available at the time. Had you turned down a move based on fear of a global pandemic threatening jobs, you'd have been branded insane.
Ultimately no-one knows how this will ride out. If there's a vaccine developed in the timescale some reports seem to suggest, it may not be as long as some of the pessimists would have you believe.
As has been mentioned I expect lots of options are being looked at, in every airline, to protect as many jobs as possible. I sincerely hope that pilots at the top of seniority lists, with no mortgage and big pension pots, are having a long hard look in the mirror right now.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: between the M6 and M25
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virgin Atlantic told to resubmit bailout bid by ‘unimpressed’ UK Treasury
https://www.ft.com/content/e2636703-...8-b944e032db1f
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virgin Atlantic told to resubmit bailout bid by ‘unimpressed’ UK Treasury
https://www.ft.com/content/e2636703-...8-b944e032db1f
tell me something I don’t know
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again I’d be taking that with a pinch of salt! Our CEO said just last night that the talks with the Government are progressing! If I have learnt anything the past few weeks is not to believe anything written in the paper or social media!
Virgin are dealing with Morgan Stanley to sort out funding and until I hear otherwise the above is compete nonsense.
Virgin are dealing with Morgan Stanley to sort out funding and until I hear otherwise the above is compete nonsense.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And especially after that tosspot reporter Jim pickards question to the health secretary 🙄 last week regarding Virgins bailout prospects, id hazard a guess in pointing out that “The times” has some sort of agenda with Virgin!
Last edited by A320baby; 18th Apr 2020 at 13:19.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Courchevel
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course with some papers but not the FT. Let's face it Virgin Atlantic are trying to get a leg up to keep in business because they don't have the cash in the bank like IAG and wizzair do. They'll only get the taxpayer to cough up (again as they're already avialing of the 80% of wages help) if they take more serious measures to stave off going out of business. There's quite a few on here hoping it ain't so bad probably because they work there which is totally understandable but I'm afraid this virus pandemic is really bad, I think deep down they know that though. We need to see the owners do more, a lot more before taxpayers money gets used to prop up an airline which has been making significant losses in recent years. Remember FlyBe..?
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
20% certainly seems to be a number thrown around a lot at the moment, seemingly with no foundation. Someone in BA mentioned 80% capacity by Christmas - this does not automatically mean they're about to chop 20% of the airline. What about after that?
It's difficult not to chastise oneself over decisions made that in retrospect now look like the wrong ones. I dare say I'd have been considerably more secure at my previous airline than where I now sit on the MSL at BA. You make the best decision you can based on all the information you have available at the time. Had you turned down a move based on fear of a global pandemic threatening jobs, you'd have been branded insane.
Ultimately no-one knows how this will ride out. If there's a vaccine developed in the timescale some reports seem to suggest, it may not be as long as some of the pessimists would have you believe.
As has been mentioned I expect lots of options are being looked at, in every airline, to protect as many jobs as possible. I sincerely hope that pilots at the top of seniority lists, with no mortgage and big pension pots, are having a long hard look in the mirror right now.
It's difficult not to chastise oneself over decisions made that in retrospect now look like the wrong ones. I dare say I'd have been considerably more secure at my previous airline than where I now sit on the MSL at BA. You make the best decision you can based on all the information you have available at the time. Had you turned down a move based on fear of a global pandemic threatening jobs, you'd have been branded insane.
Ultimately no-one knows how this will ride out. If there's a vaccine developed in the timescale some reports seem to suggest, it may not be as long as some of the pessimists would have you believe.
As has been mentioned I expect lots of options are being looked at, in every airline, to protect as many jobs as possible. I sincerely hope that pilots at the top of seniority lists, with no mortgage and big pension pots, are having a long hard look in the mirror right now.
This is when you’ll see lots of very selfish individuals both in the cabin and flight deck.
However I fear/caution that binning all the senior guys might not be a panacea in the current situation at e.g. BA where it looks like it wants to keep certain fleets running but might possibly be happy to consign other fleets to history....think they are going to indulge in fleet moves for all pilots?
Last edited by wiggy; 18th Apr 2020 at 16:13.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct Wiggy. Those thinking that BA (and this could apply to any airline with multiple fleets and bases) will just chop the bottom (or top) X% and then happily pay the bill to retrain those left are living in cloud cuckoo land. That’s before you even get into the - at very least - questionable legality of making someone redundant and then retraining someone else to take their role. That’s why no one can feel safe from this process if/when it happens.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct Wiggy. Those thinking that BA (and this could apply to any airline with multiple fleets and bases) will just chop the bottom (or top) X% and then happily pay the bill to retrain those left are living in cloud cuckoo land. That’s before you even get into the - at very least - questionable legality of making someone redundant and then retraining someone else to take their role. That’s why no one can feel safe from this process if/when it happens.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LIFO is illegal... pure and simple! It’s age discrimination as Airlines know. 120 of us got kicked out of Thomson under LIFO with a few bells and whistles added on... Which alluded to pure LIFO.
The only option to challenge it is a strike.... Good luck to any workforce who considers a move like that during these uncertain times. Unfortunately meritocracy is the future and tough times like this will only drive home this agenda.
The only option to challenge it is a strike.... Good luck to any workforce who considers a move like that during these uncertain times. Unfortunately meritocracy is the future and tough times like this will only drive home this agenda.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Up north
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is true, LIFO in and of itself is not illegal as criteria for selection. However “as the sole measure of selection it’s legally unsafe”. Quoted direct but not verbatim from the lawyers sorting out the Flybe mess in 2013.
Last edited by RexBanner; 18th Apr 2020 at 16:44.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think some here are missing the point.
LIFO may well be acceptable, but in BA's case consider:
1. Is it advisable to make redundant, and replace, a cheap junior A320 FO with a senior A380/747 FO (who's role has become redundant)?
2. Will BA want to incur the cost of re-training a senior B747/A380 FO into the position of an already trained a ready to go cheap junior A320 FO. Why would they want to incur ANY cost when they're haemorrhaging cash?
3. As this situation is such an unknown, will BA want to get rid of a load of cheap junior, ready to go (other than a recency sim) A320 FO's and have a pool of 747/A380 senior FO's waiting round to be go through a 4-6 week training course with aircraft unnecessarily sitting on the ground?
I mention A320 above because that's where most of the junior guys start. BA is a corporate animal. I'm sure it wouldn't bat an eye at having to make some brutal decisions over the coming months. People say BA have never made pilot redundancies - problem is, this is a very different BA. As much as this situation is hurting BA I'm also sure they're looking at ways to manipulate it to their advantage.
I sincerely hope BA keeps everybody employed but there are difficult days coming.
Good luck to you Virgins too 🤞
LIFO may well be acceptable, but in BA's case consider:
1. Is it advisable to make redundant, and replace, a cheap junior A320 FO with a senior A380/747 FO (who's role has become redundant)?
2. Will BA want to incur the cost of re-training a senior B747/A380 FO into the position of an already trained a ready to go cheap junior A320 FO. Why would they want to incur ANY cost when they're haemorrhaging cash?
3. As this situation is such an unknown, will BA want to get rid of a load of cheap junior, ready to go (other than a recency sim) A320 FO's and have a pool of 747/A380 senior FO's waiting round to be go through a 4-6 week training course with aircraft unnecessarily sitting on the ground?
I mention A320 above because that's where most of the junior guys start. BA is a corporate animal. I'm sure it wouldn't bat an eye at having to make some brutal decisions over the coming months. People say BA have never made pilot redundancies - problem is, this is a very different BA. As much as this situation is hurting BA I'm also sure they're looking at ways to manipulate it to their advantage.
I sincerely hope BA keeps everybody employed but there are difficult days coming.
Good luck to you Virgins too 🤞