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Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?

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Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?

Old 24th Feb 2011, 14:28
  #481 (permalink)  
 
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there is no future for ryr as long as MOL is at the helm because in the real airline world where staff are respected, his business model has lilttle foundation
His business model has only been based on respect for one thing - COST. He has been CEO of FR since 1994. People have came and went in their droves since then; however he has still managed to control a phenomenal level of growth without buttering up anyone whatsoever. I wish it were different, but it's not.

Where's the future for a company who's staff have zero loyalty and respect for a boss/management system which holds them is such distain and disregard across all bases from Dublin to Trapani and every other one in between?!!
See above. If there is a mass exodus in progress then old houdini up in the white house will pull out the stops to prevent handing over long term and meaningful concessions to the workforce. Michael isn't afraid of a flutter and has deep pockets - just look at the Aer Lingus debacle and the fuel hedging (or lack of) farce. Summer wet leasing anyone? Its been done before.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 14:36
  #482 (permalink)  
 
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@d105 about new captain jumping the que to get a major europe base!!!
Can you please forward the list to me?? Love to know where I am on the que for Dublin!! Personal opinion is there is no list, theres is however luck and knowing the right people.

LOL at chinese cadets!!Funniest rumour yet.My only experience of new chinese pilots was while hour building in florida.Listening to them busting airspace and causing runway incursions and generally getting in way due to poor english.
Ryanair are not stupid!The hassle/time of language issues,paperwork and license issues....besides its Capts they need!Plenty of FOs from Europe still queing for interview.

Not sure was it there all the time but Ryanair website now has section for Direct Entry Captains wanted.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 15:12
  #483 (permalink)  
 
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Have you gents seen this one? Hot off the Irish Revenue Commissioners presses via the 2011 Finance Bill:


Tax treatment of flight crew in international traffic.

SECTION 16
36. In page 37, before section 16, to insert the following new section:
The Principal Act is amended in Chapter 5 of Part 5 by inserting the following
section after section 127
127B ( 1 ) Income arising to any individual, whether resident in the State
or not. from any employment exercised aboard an aircraft
(a) that is operated in international traffic and
(b) where the aircraft is so operated by an enterprise that has its place
of effective management in the State
shall be chargeable to tax under Schedule E
(2} For the purposes of an arrangement to which this section and section
826 applies. 'international traffic' , in relation to an aircraft, does not include
an aircraft operated solely between places in another state "
An tAaire Airgeadais

It basically provides that staff working on board aircraft that owned by an Irish company are liable to Irish tax REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY ARE RESIDENT AND WHERE THEY EXERCISE THEIR DUTIES.

In other works, a German working for an Irish Airline who lives in Germany and flies from Germany to the US only might now be properly liable to Irish tax - even though he never sets foot in Ireland. Of course the various Double Tax Treaties might have something to say about this.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 23:34
  #484 (permalink)  
 
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I dont.........
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 23:43
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YouTube - Air China "talks" to JFK Ground

Apart from the few guys on UK contracts everyone pays tax in ireland so that changes nothing! Most ryr pilots dont set foot or even fly into ireland.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 00:06
  #486 (permalink)  
 
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lol that link is brilliant, sounds just like when I hear them operating into Madrid, also pretty much the same when ordering a take away, i put up with it for the food as its awesome, but rather not have them poke a big a@@ plane up my sitting tool.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 07:42
  #487 (permalink)  
 
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d105

From what I understand the whole month off is there to avoid UK labour legislation. On paper you are a contractor hired by Brookfield. If they hire you for 12 months in the year you are technically a full-time employee and that would entail more costs for Brookfield.
Maybe, but this doesn't explain why the guys employed directly by Ryanair as employees on a Ryanair contract, also now have to take one month off.

I have it on good authority that it was introduced simply to make the rostering department's job easier, by cutting down on the number of annual leave requests they had to process before this rule was introduced. Unfortunately as the pilot workforce has grown, the back office systems (most of them non computerised !) have struggled to cope .....


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Old 25th Feb 2011, 09:15
  #488 (permalink)  
 
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My accountant rang me last week to notify me I could now start paying uk tax and NI.

Not sure how that new legislation affects me now.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 09:18
  #489 (permalink)  
 
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@d105, as Aldente says it also counts for RYR contracts. It is too silly for words that the pilots cant decide how they want their leave. You can really go without leave for a long time like this and if you look how intense the work can be, it can be sometimes just too long between leave periods for people and that can be a safety issue as well.
It does make life easier for a few people in Rostering, but possibly messes up the lives of 2000+ pilots and their families.

If you look at what has happened over the last years and what we have to accept and has been changed for the worse, it is all just adding up and is getting pretty close for me and many others to decide to leave. The job in RYR is not as good anymore as it was and also the pay and all that comes with it. Other jobs cant be that much worse and you might get some respect there. And I know what I am talking about, coz I have been around a few of them in my flying years so far. It seems that even now, when the economical crisis is not even officially over, RYR is already losing people at a significant rate. So imagine what happens when they will enforce 5/3 and other companies just start hiring even more.

Also new Capts will be send to the Canaries a lot. For just very few hours extra positioning from your home you are in the Middle East. So that is something to consider as well for command ready FO's. And they are, coz lost of them are leaving to there. Some hang in there with the hope they will get their requested base soon, but for not many this happens and some of them waiting are eventually so fed up that they just leave.

For the Chinese FO story. Never heard of that beside Pprune by the way, but would be curious what English Language proficiency level these guys would have.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 11:27
  #490 (permalink)  
 
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Which accountant is this? Are you with MCM, or CXE on the new contract?
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 11:34
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Do you mean as well as paying them in ireland?!
By your accountant, do you mean CXC, MacNamara etc?
I'd prefer to pay into the UK, rather than sponsor the Celtic Tiger, Irish flippin Miracle.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 12:35
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Cxc, I'm uk based and uk resident so my they said to make it easier for us for mortgages etc we can pay uk tax only.

It's better for me for sure.

Anyone who is uk based and uk resident call you accountants to sort it for you.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 19:10
  #493 (permalink)  
 
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Actually, high houred FO's leaving IS a problem. These are the individuals that will be moving to the LHS and crewing the aircraft within the next 18 months. Cadets are easy to train, but who do you think trains them? Line Training FO's? We still need Captains to train cadets...
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 22:45
  #494 (permalink)  
 
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can safely say you are not funding any Celtic Tiger any longer
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 16:46
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Aldente

I was recentely made aware that Ryanair contracts now also have to take a month off. Not sure why but your explanation seems plausible. At least in a company like Ryanair. This is however a new thing since it was not the case when I joined the company.

Horsepowerr

I don't doubt you know what you are talking about. I'm pretty much of the same mindset as you. I'm tolerating Ryanair for the near future but I'm keeping my eyes open for other opportunities as well. I'm not yet of an age where joining the bottom ladder of a legacy is no longer feasible.

My personal stance towards the Canary Island bases is extremely sceptical. Some of you might remember what happened to the first Valencia base. Pilots moving entire families to Valencia only to be told the base is closing merely a year later. One should be cautious with any new base or any holiday destination base in the Ryanair network. They are prone to large fluctuations in aircraft numbers.

Another issue that arises with remote bases such as the Canaries, Faro or Porto is standbys. Their route networks are based on long flights (2u+ single way) which results in pilots maxing out on hours quickly. Once maxed they go on standbys which are spread to the convenience of rostering.

Phones

I'm glad to see at least two people are taking my advice on refusing to answer their phones during off days. Pilots need to be made aware that there is no benefits whatsoever for Brookfield contractors to fly on off days.
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 17:33
  #496 (permalink)  
 
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Return to the debate...

Hi all!

I do read these things with interest, as going through most of the posts it amazes me on how you can read some utter rubbish. I am a RYR pilot and one who is only a few weeks away from leaving for other pastures. After 27 pages the thread has been lost a bit, but currently the bottom line is:

The "official" line is that the management know, who, when and why people may be leaving and its in line with expected planned numbers. True or false that's the RYR Line. Do people really expect them to say anything other than that?

Comments made by people moaning about paying for TR, etc are fine but not helpful. The current market allows for it and whilst it does RYR will continue. Lets face it, their not the only ones! However due to numerous reasons, the total number of people leaving (Exact number is debatable) can not be replaced by cadets.

What, if anything RYR will do to try and reduce the amount of people leaving will struggle to be close to peoples grand ideas. From an RYR oldie I would agree with a comment posted earlier that the canx of 90% salary for new Capts & a better choice of base (be it the pilots current or any other preferred option) would make things better. However this also may not stop people from leaving. The industry is enjoying a cautious upturn and resignations will occur, be it for RYR, EASY, BA, EK, BMI, AA, UA, etc.

People around the 2,500hr mark now have the opportunity to almost be on an even keel with those with 6,000 if they join EK (as an example). This is understandably appealing. Why stay on to do your command with RYR (adding a 2yr bond), different base and 90% salary for at least 1 yr, to end up with 4,500hrs (with some command experience) only to leave and go back to the right seat (Mandatory for EK) for another 3-5yrs?

Stay as an F/O - move into a different company and 3-5yrs later (EK) you up for command. People who became Capt with RYR and then move, will be your F/O's!

RYR is a company that can give a lot of practical experience in a short period of time. The training standards are high (Noted comments of carriers currently interviewing RYR pilots), and many guys who are not necessarily tied down and willing to move use RYR as a good stepping stone.

It should also be noted that people currently leaving are not just heading to EK, contrary to popular belief. BA, Aer Lingus, Korean, Jet 2, Fly Dubai, Etihad, Tiger, Jet Airways, etc continue to receive RYR guys. What will RYR do to stem the flow - probably nothing.
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Old 1st Mar 2011, 14:28
  #497 (permalink)  
 
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I see the flight from BCN to AGP was cancelled this morning.
Anyone know the "excuse"? Last time I was in AGP there were 2 A/C on the ramp all locked up. Could they not even manage a reverse sector out of it?
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Old 2nd Mar 2011, 08:58
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At Leeds last week a flight was delayed for a number of hours due to lack of flight crew - no stbys!

A crew from another base had 2 sectors added to their day to avoid a total cancellation!
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Old 2nd Mar 2011, 12:32
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Crew from major EU base arrives in Valencia. Told by dispatcher they would perform an up and down trip to Seville before returning back to their home base. This happened early last month.

Visiting colleague on off days gets 3 phonecalls from Irish numbers while at my house.

Things are happening.
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Old 2nd Mar 2011, 14:12
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Leeds base has 3 a/c but is only crewed for 2 and if you have operated to Leeds you will probably agree its up in the top ten unforgiving airports in the FR network..... Quite often crews are diverting because of crosswinds outside of operating limits or FG (low cloud really as the wind is still in excess of 10kts) or too heavy for autoland for runway 32 as its too short, wet and there is a tailwind. Hence most of the time crews have to divert to LPL which puts an aircraft out of the loop therefore its easier to get another base to do the flights rather than make the LBA crew do it and possibly be out of hours for the following day. I dont think there is a crewing problem at Leeds they have enough Captains and FOs at the moment approx 10 of each for 2 aircraft. But I have been told by a friend based there that 3 captains are off to Jet 2 in the next 2 months and all are top guys that FR should have been fighting to keep.

Oh and apparently leeds is going 5/3 for the Captains summer schedule....
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