Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
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Jedy
I think you should apologise to Ryanair for that remark. On the live flight info page it clearly states it is an ATC delay. A nine and a half hour delay on a domestic flight. Estimated arrival time 15.20z. All quite reasonable.
Repeat after me....
There is no flight crew shortage. Nobody is leaving. It's all under control. We are not worried. We haven't pushed people too far with our greed. Ryanair Pilots are the most under worked overpaid Pilots in Europe. DRINK the Kool-aid.....
I think you should apologise to Ryanair for that remark. On the live flight info page it clearly states it is an ATC delay. A nine and a half hour delay on a domestic flight. Estimated arrival time 15.20z. All quite reasonable.
Repeat after me....
There is no flight crew shortage. Nobody is leaving. It's all under control. We are not worried. We haven't pushed people too far with our greed. Ryanair Pilots are the most under worked overpaid Pilots in Europe. DRINK the Kool-aid.....
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Gazman
Chinese Cadets? Don't be daft. Don't you think the Chinese airlines need them?
The expansion is eye watering over there, only a mere dribble in FR.
FR can only hope tat lots don't leave, because there isn't a whole load of well financed, intellectually challenged, unregistered 737 type individuals left to rip off.
The Chickens are coming home to roost.
The expansion is eye watering over there, only a mere dribble in FR.
FR can only hope tat lots don't leave, because there isn't a whole load of well financed, intellectually challenged, unregistered 737 type individuals left to rip off.
The Chickens are coming home to roost.
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I would like to reply to the statement that some company like BA would not take guys coming from Ryanair:
If it were really the case, why invite them on the selections anyway???? It doesn't make sence to let people come over for the selections if you know beforehand you are gonna turn them down....
Now if nobody from Ryanair had been invited in the first place, that would have been a different story.... but it's not the case!
If it were really the case, why invite them on the selections anyway???? It doesn't make sence to let people come over for the selections if you know beforehand you are gonna turn them down....
Now if nobody from Ryanair had been invited in the first place, that would have been a different story.... but it's not the case!
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The problem that FR is facing has nothing to do with the cadets ready to pay for a TR to get some time on a jet but has a lot more to do with the fact that once the people with any 'intelligence' have some hours behind them they try to leave before the get even more shafted....the stupid people (unlike myself) go for the command upgrade.
Stansdead you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder don't you....if your working for FR then you have come through the same route that I have so I don't know where animosity is coming from? Stop being so hypocritical!
If you DON'T work for FR then what are you doing commenting on a FR thread?!
The problem is not these 'well financed, intellectually challenged, unregistered 737 type individuals' there are plenty with my common sense that decided that any terms and conditions are better than none at all! Its the fact that we have no captains and even fewer are going through the command process....as for PB's attrition rate I am curious to know what the rate is from BRK... any moron knows that you can make figures tell you what you want, all you need to do is look at the guy at the top of the fuel league!
As for TELSTAR
"There is no flight crew shortage. Nobody is leaving. It's all under control. We are not worried. We haven't pushed people too far with our greed. Ryanair Pilots are the most under worked overpaid Pilots in Europe. DRINK the Kool-aid....."
Erm people are leaving, its under control now but when captains in stn are working 80 - 90 hours at the moment what are we going to do when the fleet size doubles over the summer? You sound like the sort of person who would fall for the media spin that the management dishes out on a regular basis!
Bring on the summer schedule!
U737
Stansdead you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder don't you....if your working for FR then you have come through the same route that I have so I don't know where animosity is coming from? Stop being so hypocritical!
If you DON'T work for FR then what are you doing commenting on a FR thread?!
The problem is not these 'well financed, intellectually challenged, unregistered 737 type individuals' there are plenty with my common sense that decided that any terms and conditions are better than none at all! Its the fact that we have no captains and even fewer are going through the command process....as for PB's attrition rate I am curious to know what the rate is from BRK... any moron knows that you can make figures tell you what you want, all you need to do is look at the guy at the top of the fuel league!
As for TELSTAR
"There is no flight crew shortage. Nobody is leaving. It's all under control. We are not worried. We haven't pushed people too far with our greed. Ryanair Pilots are the most under worked overpaid Pilots in Europe. DRINK the Kool-aid....."
Erm people are leaving, its under control now but when captains in stn are working 80 - 90 hours at the moment what are we going to do when the fleet size doubles over the summer? You sound like the sort of person who would fall for the media spin that the management dishes out on a regular basis!
Bring on the summer schedule!
U737
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Unregistered737
I wish to agree with my honorable colleague: Whoosh!
I guess you prefer your sarcasm sliced a little thicker?
Also:
It's you're. It's a contraction for you are. Have an awesome day!
I wish to agree with my honorable colleague: Whoosh!
I guess you prefer your sarcasm sliced a little thicker?
Also:
if your working for FR
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For any Ryanair management following this thread here's a quick tip on how to slow the hemorrhage:
A more transparent base transfer system. If people could see their names on a base list and monitor their progress it would encourage a lot more upgrades, along with convincing captains and FO's who are stuck away from home to stay with the company. This would only work if they didn't hear of new upgrades or direct entries usurping their place on the list. Oh and the monetary investment is minimal which I hear is one of MOL's recent stipulations.
Here's a quick tip on how to open the floodgates:
5/3
A more transparent base transfer system. If people could see their names on a base list and monitor their progress it would encourage a lot more upgrades, along with convincing captains and FO's who are stuck away from home to stay with the company. This would only work if they didn't hear of new upgrades or direct entries usurping their place on the list. Oh and the monetary investment is minimal which I hear is one of MOL's recent stipulations.
Here's a quick tip on how to open the floodgates:
5/3
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A more transparent base transfer system. If people could see their names on a base list and monitor their progress it would encourage a lot more upgrades, along with convincing captains and FO's who are stuck away from home to stay with the company. This would only work if they didn't hear of new upgrades or direct entries usurping their place on the list. Oh and the monetary investment is minimal which I hear is one of MOL's recent stipulations.
There are commuting contracts being handed out in Asia that give more days off at home per month than a 5-4 ryanair roster. These contracts also pay alot better and with better working conditions. 5-3 won't be faesable for them unless they introduce with it a proper and fair base transfer system, not a hope in hell.
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Unregistered 737,
Chip on my shoulder? When a greasy little Daddy's boy like you can offer me advice, I'll accept that I have a chip on my shoulder.
However, seeing as you're a 2 bit loser who doesn't know how to spell Command, let alone hold one, I'll be waiting a while.
Can you tell me where that 2.5% loan is available? Thought not.
Not that I need one, because unlike you, I've never paid for a rating and I have my Command. I have my own money, through not being a waster and a debtor.
Why comment on an FR thread? Well, why not? It's a free country where I'm sat.
Now run along and see what tosh you can dream up next. The only thing you can teach us all is how to get into unmanageable debt and then pretend you're smart. Jeeezus. What a clown you are.
Chip on my shoulder? When a greasy little Daddy's boy like you can offer me advice, I'll accept that I have a chip on my shoulder.
However, seeing as you're a 2 bit loser who doesn't know how to spell Command, let alone hold one, I'll be waiting a while.
Can you tell me where that 2.5% loan is available? Thought not.
Not that I need one, because unlike you, I've never paid for a rating and I have my Command. I have my own money, through not being a waster and a debtor.
Why comment on an FR thread? Well, why not? It's a free country where I'm sat.
Now run along and see what tosh you can dream up next. The only thing you can teach us all is how to get into unmanageable debt and then pretend you're smart. Jeeezus. What a clown you are.
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Thank you all for correcting my spelling never been my strong point!
Stansdead - Read post 300 just incase you can't find it here is a copy of what i said....
'As for finding a loan I dealt with RBS (before the recession!) and it was a student training loan which was 2% above base rate which = 2.5%...I can pass on the loan advisors number if you wish I am sure i can get a finders fee. '
It is a free country but why do you care what FR are doing? It would be incredibly naive (i looked that one up in the dictionary) to think that FR was the cause of degrading terms and conditions across the industry. I am presuming thats why your an FR hater?!
As for taking loans unfortunately it is a sign of the times....everyone my age has a loan whether that be from uni or other training. I however can pay off my loan quicker than your average uni graduate can pay theirs.
Just as an example....the cost for a medical degree is £35,000 for the tuition fees and £25,000 for the student loans (5 year degree!). Your starting salary is likely to be in the region of £29,000 and thats after another 2 years of specialised training.
Tosh....i think not!
as for '2 bit loser' - really that's what you've got?
U737
Stansdead - Read post 300 just incase you can't find it here is a copy of what i said....
'As for finding a loan I dealt with RBS (before the recession!) and it was a student training loan which was 2% above base rate which = 2.5%...I can pass on the loan advisors number if you wish I am sure i can get a finders fee. '
It is a free country but why do you care what FR are doing? It would be incredibly naive (i looked that one up in the dictionary) to think that FR was the cause of degrading terms and conditions across the industry. I am presuming thats why your an FR hater?!
As for taking loans unfortunately it is a sign of the times....everyone my age has a loan whether that be from uni or other training. I however can pay off my loan quicker than your average uni graduate can pay theirs.
Just as an example....the cost for a medical degree is £35,000 for the tuition fees and £25,000 for the student loans (5 year degree!). Your starting salary is likely to be in the region of £29,000 and thats after another 2 years of specialised training.
Tosh....i think not!
as for '2 bit loser' - really that's what you've got?
U737
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Unregistered 737,
You're not going to find any willing takers for your tales, a veritable parable of debt & misery, at least not amongst any right minded individual.
You said it all. BEFORE the recession....
There were lots of people doing lots of rash things, such as lending impressionable young fools large sums of money. Much of this rash lending has, of course, been well commented upon in the press in the intervening times.
There is no virtue whatsoever in saddling yourself with a mortgage sized debt, in order to jump the queue into the RHS.
One day you will realise your gross folly yourself. Then you'll pipe down a touch.
Until then, there will be plenty of people to remind you of it free of charge on here.
You're not going to find any willing takers for your tales, a veritable parable of debt & misery, at least not amongst any right minded individual.
You said it all. BEFORE the recession....
There were lots of people doing lots of rash things, such as lending impressionable young fools large sums of money. Much of this rash lending has, of course, been well commented upon in the press in the intervening times.
There is no virtue whatsoever in saddling yourself with a mortgage sized debt, in order to jump the queue into the RHS.
One day you will realise your gross folly yourself. Then you'll pipe down a touch.
Until then, there will be plenty of people to remind you of it free of charge on here.
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Apart from joining the forces how do you become a pilot without forking out some cash then? 
This goes back way before the recession. As of 9-11 all the major carriers ceased their scholarships and after that unless you want to spend 5/6/7 years working for nothing just to build up the hours to get that jet job what else is out there?
Oh and as for enjoying the years before the recession your no doubt sat in a nice house on your captains salary and enjoyed the benefits of the housing boom? Like all your posts your a bit hypocritical.
And as for blaming me (meaning ALL trainee pilots post 9-11) for the recession is just idiotic. In the eyes of a bank i believe we are a much safer bet than someone with a 110% mortgage!
Its business and my balance sheet is doing alright thank you.
This goes back way before the recession. As of 9-11 all the major carriers ceased their scholarships and after that unless you want to spend 5/6/7 years working for nothing just to build up the hours to get that jet job what else is out there?
Oh and as for enjoying the years before the recession your no doubt sat in a nice house on your captains salary and enjoyed the benefits of the housing boom? Like all your posts your a bit hypocritical.
And as for blaming me (meaning ALL trainee pilots post 9-11) for the recession is just idiotic. In the eyes of a bank i believe we are a much safer bet than someone with a 110% mortgage!
Its business and my balance sheet is doing alright thank you.
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I do love a good slanging match but if we could keep it about the thread and not air your various unfounded petty insults that would be fantastic. Inane comments about each other are really a thing for the playground don't you think!
End Rant
As per the rating argument, we live in a world where unfortunately that seems to be the way forward. I believe some have already broken it down as to the differing ways to go about it but the reality is that most are doing it: FR, EZY, ex XL, TCX, J2, Baby and Fly Be just to name a few. I am sure you can all add more to this list. I woul have loved to live in a world where you could be given a rating but alas such was the way when I completed my training!
To the thread, unfortunately IMO I think it will take a huge number of resignations/command upgrade rejections to make an impact on this bunch!
Enjoy anyway and happy days to all.
73
End Rant
As per the rating argument, we live in a world where unfortunately that seems to be the way forward. I believe some have already broken it down as to the differing ways to go about it but the reality is that most are doing it: FR, EZY, ex XL, TCX, J2, Baby and Fly Be just to name a few. I am sure you can all add more to this list. I woul have loved to live in a world where you could be given a rating but alas such was the way when I completed my training!
To the thread, unfortunately IMO I think it will take a huge number of resignations/command upgrade rejections to make an impact on this bunch!
Enjoy anyway and happy days to all.
73
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Now if nobody from Ryanair had been invited in the first place, that would have been a different story.... but it's not the case!
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Well done 73addict, for wrestling the thread back on track, and for keeping the tone civilised.
And Tripitaka is spot on: for minimal cost there are lots of ways to keep the pilots happy, particularly the imminent command upgrades, as these are the ones companies need to hang on to, and the ones most likely to leave.
Transparent basing policy is one.
And if 5/4 goes, exodus will be entirely the correct word.
And Tripitaka is spot on: for minimal cost there are lots of ways to keep the pilots happy, particularly the imminent command upgrades, as these are the ones companies need to hang on to, and the ones most likely to leave.
Transparent basing policy is one.
And if 5/4 goes, exodus will be entirely the correct word.
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In response to D105, my acct recently mentioned watch this space regards the government (read revenue commissioners) looking closely at Ryanair's contracting situation vis a vis Ireland tax.
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Unregistered 737,
I didn't blame you, or other pilots for the global recession. Can you point me to where I did? What I did say is that banks did things that were rash, pre recession, such as lending large sums of money to impressionable young fools.
"unless you want to spend 5/6/7 years working for nothing"......what are you doing now then? All that debt to service. You're working for the banks and FR shareholders only.
You seem to think that you're incredibly clever for loading yourself in debt and putting your ability to own a home, or save meaningfully back by 15 years. You're not.
You'll find many people in BA who spent 5/6/7 years "working for nothing" in order to get there. At your interview in February, I'd knock off some of your smug attitude and knuckle down.
As for hypocrisy. Why am I hypocritical? I didn't get in debt in order to fly. I've never been a flash Harry with a Porsche. I've saved and I've worked hard.
That's not hypocrisy. It's called not being dumb.
Good luck with your interview into BA. Are you going to devise a way to try and fast track their seniority system? But only in order not to waste 5/6/7 years being an FO?
I didn't blame you, or other pilots for the global recession. Can you point me to where I did? What I did say is that banks did things that were rash, pre recession, such as lending large sums of money to impressionable young fools.
"unless you want to spend 5/6/7 years working for nothing"......what are you doing now then? All that debt to service. You're working for the banks and FR shareholders only.
You seem to think that you're incredibly clever for loading yourself in debt and putting your ability to own a home, or save meaningfully back by 15 years. You're not.
You'll find many people in BA who spent 5/6/7 years "working for nothing" in order to get there. At your interview in February, I'd knock off some of your smug attitude and knuckle down.
As for hypocrisy. Why am I hypocritical? I didn't get in debt in order to fly. I've never been a flash Harry with a Porsche. I've saved and I've worked hard.
That's not hypocrisy. It's called not being dumb.
Good luck with your interview into BA. Are you going to devise a way to try and fast track their seniority system? But only in order not to waste 5/6/7 years being an FO?
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stansdead, I am sure you are an amazing individual with the enviable experience of a seasoned pro! However, just be careful with your comments. To call people fools because they have done thing differently to you is a massive generalisation and grossly naive. I am sure that there are many on this site who trained post 9/11 when sponsorships did not exist or were incredibly sparse. UNLESS one is fortunate to have the bank of M and D then short of going down the debt route there was no other way. Yes you could have gone out to get a job to raise funds but how many years will that put you back? More than 5,6,7 I wager. As for the constant barrage for those who do have bank of M and D again WHY? Good luck to them, it doesn't make them any less qualified at the end or any less of a pilot!
It is quite simple this industry has and is surviving off of the fact that people are desperate to become an airline pilot, and given the investment to get your initial licence, are relying on the fact that people will be willing to go a bit further to fulfil their ambition.
Realistically with the theory of speculate to accumulate there are some good choices that can be made and have been made. For a young single wannabe the idea of short term debt to reap the rewards of a full career is not such a terrible thought.
I suggest you wind your neck back in and realise that difference does not mean foolishness or dumbness!!
All the best
73
It is quite simple this industry has and is surviving off of the fact that people are desperate to become an airline pilot, and given the investment to get your initial licence, are relying on the fact that people will be willing to go a bit further to fulfil their ambition.
Realistically with the theory of speculate to accumulate there are some good choices that can be made and have been made. For a young single wannabe the idea of short term debt to reap the rewards of a full career is not such a terrible thought.
I suggest you wind your neck back in and realise that difference does not mean foolishness or dumbness!!
All the best
73
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73Addict,
You're as naive and foolish as unregistered737 if you think getting circa £50 - 100k in debt is short term.
I suggest you wind your neck back in. I can say what I want on this subject.
I couldn't give a f?ck if people borrow money or not. Or at what rates. What annoys me, and many others is the view that 5/6/7 years in anything other than a jet is working for nothing and a waste of time.
The attitude of taking on huge debt in a gamble on a career in FR/Brookfield is reckless. It stinks of "I'm not waiting my turn" and has directly contributed to the rapid deterioration of conditions of employment in our profession. I pity you. You know no better.
The adage of a Doctor borrowing to fund his/her career does not add up either. They enjoy: permanent contracts/ sick pay/ final salary pension and a security of tenure.
What do you get for your £29k starting pay in FR? Err....£29k and nothing more.
Justify it all you want. It's just like buying a bigger TV than you can afford on credit. All part of the "I want it now" spoilt rotten generation.
You have much to learn.
You're as naive and foolish as unregistered737 if you think getting circa £50 - 100k in debt is short term.
I suggest you wind your neck back in. I can say what I want on this subject.
I couldn't give a f?ck if people borrow money or not. Or at what rates. What annoys me, and many others is the view that 5/6/7 years in anything other than a jet is working for nothing and a waste of time.
The attitude of taking on huge debt in a gamble on a career in FR/Brookfield is reckless. It stinks of "I'm not waiting my turn" and has directly contributed to the rapid deterioration of conditions of employment in our profession. I pity you. You know no better.
The adage of a Doctor borrowing to fund his/her career does not add up either. They enjoy: permanent contracts/ sick pay/ final salary pension and a security of tenure.
What do you get for your £29k starting pay in FR? Err....£29k and nothing more.
Justify it all you want. It's just like buying a bigger TV than you can afford on credit. All part of the "I want it now" spoilt rotten generation.
You have much to learn.