easyJet. Having a laugh.

[TFR]

Easy Switzerland DEC conditions

thehighflyer, when you have any up to date details on these improved Ts & Cs would you be so kind as to share them with everybody? The original conditions seem extremely poor....

[Global Warrior]

Hi

Dont forget that in all probability, every out of work 320 Capt are sending their CV's directly to the airlines as well as to contract agencies so management will have a pretty good idea of how many pilots there are out there looking for a job and will then be able to price the contract accordingly, knowing that one pilot is absolutely prepared to shaft another one for the sake of a job. So if they know there are say, 80 A320 Capts looking for work and they need 10 for a contract period, they will offer the money that they think 8 will go for and knowing the desparate circumstances some find themselves in, that could be £4,000 a month with no benefits. After all, £4,000 is better than nowt to some.

And given that some in the airline have convinced themselves that they are all right and their T's and C's wont be affected.......... why should they fight for those that they deem to be beneath them? Its spineless, but sadly airline pilots are never tested for the rigidity of their vertebrae and management know it. But then again, management yukspeak, that those in senior positions seem to adopt when they want to be totally apathetic towards T's and C's claim its "market forces"!!!!!!!

Good luck and God Bless

GW

[stansdead]

Do these people think that Captains can't add up?

Unbelieveable really, but then again, to be expected I guess.

So, the "improved" terms are:

8500 CHF per month = 5180 GBP ( x 12 months 62160 GBP per YEAR basic.... which is 20000 GBP less than an emplyed easy UK Captain earns.)

Sector pay at the standard easyJet rate.

1500 CHF per month accommodation & transport allowance (914 GBP per month).


AND, they seem to have removed the monthly bonus for completing the contract.

So, all in all, there is no improvement.

What a joke. They are laughing at us.

I hope everyone ignores this shocking deal.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

I am up for pretty-well any fight to stop this erosion. The employment of contract captains is simply not acceptable anywhere in easyJet. We effectively now have it at both easyJet companies - CTC provide summer contract captains from their own trainers. I was most disappointed to discover that we are employing CTC pilots as Line Trainers too - that simply is robbing an easyJet Captain of a Training Captain's job. The bottom line is that this is a line too far for me. All I have to do is receive the strike papers in the post and my answer will be yes. The problem is that there are so many battles out there to be fought that it makes it almost impossible to fight them all. This one, however, has to be at the top of our list.

[Alsacienne]

OK so the deductions required by the Swiss government will affect the net pay of these employees, but might I just remind folk that these employees could find accommodation just over the border in France - in the St Louis/Huningue area for a start - and therefore pay less than in Switzerland.

However, that 'little gleam of hope' does not remove the fact that the amount of pay for the conditions of employment (and the responsibility that the job requires), is unrealistic in terms of everyday living and quality of life.

[Global Warrior]

Here we go

I was most disappointed to discover that we are employing CTC pilots as Line Trainers too - that simply is robbing an easyJet Captain of a Training Captain's job. The bottom line is that this is a line too far for me. All I have to do is receive the strike papers in the post and my answer will be yes. The problem is that there are so many battles out there to be fought that it makes it almost impossible to fight them all. This one, however, has to be at the top of our list.

Finally it's reached the "its affecting ME now" level so lets get the whole airline out on strike to save ME

Perhaps if you had a spine and stood up to the erosion of Co-Pilot T's & C's by ACTIVELY refusing to train P2F people, this apparent erosion of Capt's T's & C's would never have got this far.

There are simply much bigger battles to fight, specifically, those that affect safety, safety of the travelling public.......... like eliminating P2F in your company and getting the experienced Co-Pilots off the dole and back in the flight deck.

Take a number and join the queue seems pretty apt!!!!!

[5150]

[QUOTE]Finally it's reached the "its affecting ME now" level so lets get the whole airline out on strike to save ME

Perhaps if you had a spine and stood up to the erosion of Co-Pilot T's & C's by ACTIVELY refusing to train P2F people, this apparent erosion of Capt's T's & C's would never have got this far.[QUOTE]


Spot on - I'm alright jack (oh, until it affects me)

[angelorange]

Strike me in/out?

NSF said "All I have to do is receive the strike papers in the post and my answer will be yes"

There's the problem! The only way you'll rx any strike papers is if you send them to yourself and your colleagues.


EZY has a CTC/P2F addiction and it is now starting to hit the Line Captains......

[Binder]

Norman,

CTC Trainers.

So what is the mood in the training department about this? Are your colleagues accepting this willingly or indifferent? Are any trainers prepared to quit over this? I doubt it. How many trainers are Balpa members? 40%? 50%? I doubt that as well. No body in Balpa is suggesting that we strike over P2F cadets when there are experienced F/O's on the dole so why should they go to war over this?

Balpa are trying to fight too many battles on too many fronts and if the company gets fed up they will just go to 90 day consultation for whatever reason......because they can.

Nothing will change until either the market does or senior employees at the big bases decide to get their reps fired up.

I don't see any evidence that things are about to change soon and this is not so much "I'm alright Jack" more a case of resignation and dare I say it -ignorance.

Binder

[JW411]

Is it not just wonderful to see NSF starting to get uncomfortable?

Luckily for him, BALPA will be along in a trice to solve the problem.

[Bruce Wayne]

I am up for pretty-well any fight to stop this erosion. The employment of contract captains is simply not acceptable anywhere in easyJet. We effectively now have it at both easyJet companies - CTC provide summer contract captains from their own trainers. I was most disappointed to discover that we are employing CTC pilots as Line Trainers too - that simply is robbing an easyJet Captain of a Training Captain's job. The bottom line is that this is a line too far for me. All I have to do is receive the strike papers in the post and my answer will be yes. The problem is that there are so many battles out there to be fought that it makes it almost impossible to fight them all. This one, however, has to be at the top of our list.

So whats BALPA doing about it, you have BALPA in EZ.. and to coin an well worn phrase.. "You are BALPA, BALPA is you"

[Mister Geezer]

A friend in easyJet recently said to me... the attitude on the Orange street nowadays is 'If you don't like it... then f*%k off'! Very sad to see.....

[Global Warrior]

Well People

This is why you get the MOL's of this world......... the bloody staff are wimpy, spineless, pathetic whingers who believe that somehow contributing to this forum is like taking action. Send me the papers and ill strike. Its hardly Tsun Siu the art of war is it. Can you imagine FM Montgomerie in the 2nd World War....... ooooh come over here campers and lets have a chat and a bicuit. Hardly a rallying cry.

You have yourselves to blame.

Ok let me just repeat that for those that don't like it............. IM NOT SORRY, YOU HAVE YOURSELVES TO BLAME!

And then like a pathetic plea from a sinking ship......... "please lets go on strike because now MY terms and conditions are being affected". Didn't give a s**t when it was someone else but now its ME so help!!!!! And this from a moron that bangs on about BALPA. BALPA is only as good as its membership he says. Well BALPA aint some kind of exclusive club for you. They are there to look out for every level. If you don't have the gonads to support your less well off colleagues, you are failing BALPA, which in turn translates to you are failing yourself.

DEMORALISED CAPTAINS FLYING WITH P2F CANDIDATES IN THE SAME FLIGHT DECK DOES NOT MAKE FOR A SAFE ENVIRONMENT.

Your company is an accident waiting to happen.

The true tragedy in all of this is the failure to realise that its the spineless employees that have allowed the degradation of the T's & C's, not a strong a successful management team that despite the downturn still makes profits......... which is why its there..... to make money....... not keep you in silk boxer shorts!

[wizzkid]

stansdead

I beg to differ. The pay PAS is offering is better that certain company in the east is willing to pay after the Swiss tax is imposed on the peons. Thanks for pointing me to their (PAS) way, as if it was not for this thread I would have remaind ignorant of the offer. I am sure to apply for a position as soon as I get more details from them.

Edited for beer infused, rough all night out comments that where not deserved by Stansdead. Apologies

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Global Warrior - you are simply talking utter rubbish. You have no idea what is going on or not at easyJet as you do not work there. You have failed to grasp significant details of the contract system there and have completely misrepresented what little you do understand. No one is saying they like the current FO deal - it is, however, NOT pay-to-fly and you seem unable to grasp that. There are NOT countless demoralised captains at easyJet flying with p2f candidates. That seems to be impossible for you to take on board, but that is the way it is.

I have been completely honest in my posts over the years about what is good and what is bad at easyJet. There are significant aspects of our current contracts and work practices that I totally disagree with. The 2 specific items that I would take issue with are contract captains and the current deal for new First Officers. Both these issues are worth striking over, and if invited to vote on the issue, I would vote for industrial action. However, the characterisation of the current situation at easyJet by you and others is increasingly ludicrous and does not help our cause one bit. It comes across as an irrational rant, which is exactly what it is. The idea that easyJet aircraft are waiting to fall out the sky due to the presence of hacked-off captains and p2f FOs is just so much hogwash. I am not even sure that Global Warrior is a pilot - he may just be interested SLF, judging by his limited knowledge of what is going on. He is, of course, entitled to his own view, but it would help if these opinions had some basis in fact.

[stansdead]

Wizzkid,

Good for you. Off you go then.

What will you do with all your spare money when the 5 month contract ends? Wizz won't take you back. And there's nothing else in Europe.

My whole point is that for a short term contract, the terms are very poor. But, you obviously don't think so. Each to their own.

Let me be straight about this: I don't care less about joining as a contract DEC in somewhere, even God forbid, the hallowed easyJet. The business has changed forever in this recession and I will look after number one. BUT only for a commensurate wage next to other pilots in that airline.... And only on terms that reflect the contract length.

I'm glad you are aware of the contract now I started this thread. I don't know why you attacked me though?

Good luck. If you need a calculator to see the truth in my figures, feel free to ask. I will send you one.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Too-Easy Jet.

Norman, old thing, I'll have to call you on that one. Resorting to finger pointing and claiming "he's not even a pilot" is a step too far against poor old Global Warrior. Anyone who reckons he's got 12,500 hours P1 on jets at 42 must have flown his arse off, so give the poor chap a break, would you?

Besides, he has a point. Among vocational occupations such as ours, there simply is no collective responsibility and that is the reason why BLAPA and similarly malicious organisations continue to exploit the decency and loyalty to be found at the core of a precious few people, Norman. People such as you.

Your redoubtable support of BLAPA over the years is, I'm reluctant to admit, admirable. But like all good spaniels, after placing slobbery slippers at the feet of your master for so long, isn't it reasonable to expect something more satisfying than a boot in the balls for your trouble?

If you don't have the gonads to support your less well off colleagues, you are failing BALPA

Global Warrior didn't mean for this little gem to apply to those further up the tree and beyond Orange shores, but of course it does and is the principal reason why BLAPA's day in the sun is over. Where is the BA outrage over the appalling erosion of T&C (sic) at Easyjet? Where are the picket lines of uniformed Barons outside the architectural monstrosity that is Terminal 5? Nowhere, that's where. That's right, Norman, they don't give a ****. Quelle surprise!!!

Were you serious about actually doing something about what you see as the erosion of terms and conditions at Easyjet, or whatever it might be called from June, you'd start your own in-house organisation. That would most certainly get their attention. Who knows, Norman, you might actually achieve something!

Tread carefully though, old friend. With a new CEO from that pinko rag The Guardian, and a prickly female to boot, the feathers are bound to fly.

[Global Warrior]

NSF........ i have asked you previously to explain how these people are different. Your company, due to the CRUD TRAINING COMPANY has been instrumental in even allowing P2F to exist. If the candidates that are there now are from the pool of "pilots" that are actually P2F "cadets" who have been languishing on the dole for the past 8 months......... thats still P2F products you are flying with........ even though they have been offered a package that would make a burger chef at Mac Donalds walk out.

You might have your disagreements with whats going on with your employer but you only actually mentioned going on strike when it affected you

I was most disappointed to discover that we are employing CTC pilots as Line Trainers too - that simply is robbing an easyJet Captain of a Training Captain's job. The bottom line is that this is a line too far for me. All I have to do is receive the strike papers in the post and my answer will be yes

BALPA must be really happy to have a membership that so wantonly announces under what circumstances its membership will stand behind it....... "its now affecting me.........help!"

I have been flying since i was 18. I have loved every minute of it my first solo was on 26/3/86, in an OATS Tomahawk. I was a "self-improver". Since then i have flown Cargo, Corporate, Presidential, on demand charter, Airlines and got so p****d of with whinging whining pilots that i gave up the airline thing. Im in a really happy place, working along side some of the very best "people" i have ever been around. I am their boss. There is a mutual respect from the lowest rung of the ladder to the highest. Everyone is happy.

Every company could be the same, except for one denominating factor........the Pilots that populate the flight deck. Your quote above is exactly why your employers are eroding your T's & C's......... because until it affects you personally, you're not interested............ where as in our company its "does this affect the company?" If you are not company people, you have nothing to attach any allegiance to, except yourself. And therefore you wont do anything about any erosion of T's & C's until it affects you personally and so your union, my union as well by the way, hears about stuff going on in the airline but because of the total apathy of its members, is powerless to do anything. Last time i checked, BALPA didn't have a division that looks out for NSF!!!! You need to take those blinkers off, my friends. Its not all about you.

Come October 2011, i will have possessed a Professional Pilots Licence for 25 years. I feel privileged to have done so. My old man was a Pilot. We have over 50 years of combined aviation experience between us and i have a son, who one day may want to be a Pilot also.......... but its a different world and our profession is different now and my opinion is the reason it is different is because of the selfish, egotistical, spineless, apathetic, eunuchs that call themselves Pilots. Those that bitch and whinge about stuff but do nothing. Nothing, because they are individuals looking out for themselves. That is the true cancer of this once great profession....... not the tough talking, business people that are now the CEO's. You NSF, you do not stand up for the profession, you stand up for yourself. There are so many more like you. Its impossible to represent you. And this profession is all the worse for it.

And you know what, none of the erosions of your T's & C's affect me personally............ but they affect the profession and thats why i want to make a stand........ a stand against eroding this profession further..........maybe leave something behind that my children and yours may be proud to be a part of........... BUT as long as you people keep shooting the messenger rather than the message, its going to be a VERY difficult cause to fight. And my fight, right now is the P2F schemes because the only way to make this profession great again is to fix it from the bottom........... and like a pyramid, unless those at the top support those at the bottom, the bottom crumbles away and before you know it, the top is now the new bottom. As long as we have 5000 hour pilots sitting on the dole and 250 hour pilots sitting in the flight deck, things need changing.

This profession has survived as long as it has and newly qualified Pilots simply had to wait their turn. Not so long ago you needed 700 hours just to get a CPL in this country. Unless you did a fully approved course, you had to tow gliders, fly parachute aircraft, go to the states to build up hours or become a flight instructor to get those hours. Now people seem to think they have a God given right to buy themselves a job with 250 hours and there are certain individuals making themselves very wealthy selling that dream. BUT its dangerous. The US has just raised to 800 hours the minimum required to work for an air carrier. Are they so much worse in the US than here? Are they less capable? Or have they realised that there is an inherent danger in having newly qualified Piper Seneca Captains flying A320's. And because this has been countenanced by the selfish, egotistical, spineless, apathetic, eunuchs, this cancer will spread itself to the MIGHTY Left hand seat........"oh isn't that just beginning to happen?" Perhaps the future is there for all to see.

NSF whatever you do today, enjoy it, i will. I mean nothing personally. After all NSF is just a handle on a forum.

God Bless

GW

[captplaystation]

Think you hit the nail on the head there, the "straw that broke the camels back" (no not yours Leo) did have a slightly egocentric ring to it.
NSF's recent rumblings seem to have quitened down to virtual platitudes, indeed at times becoming almost defensive of the "Easy come Easy go" scandal.
Now we see a once erudite defender of what was right and wrong, somewhat decimated to become (on the face of it ) just another "I'm allright Jack" character.
Norm, I am a little dissapointed that it has taken this direct potential attack by Easy on YOU ( = ME ME ME ) for you to rediscover a little fire in your belly, as a minimum I hope this is the warning shot across your bows that alerts you to the fact that YOU are a future target of the total and utter cr@p your management have in store for ALL OF YOU, in the fullness of time.
Inhale deeply and smell that Nescafe Norm, it sure as hell ain't Illy

[Doug the Head]

Hear hear! Very well spoken GW & captplaystation!

Finally some people (incl. NSF) are starting to see the light...