Hope for the new guys - The first shoots
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Hope for the new guys - The first shoots
Feeling all brotherly as for the first time since I started flying I saw evidence the other day of pilots further up the food chain actually talking about making a stand for those looking to get their foot into the airline industry.
It's been well documented on here some of the schemes on offer via Easyjet and alike where either the need for income or aspiration of the job is played on by airline accountants/executives to exploit newly qualified pilots.
Finally I have seen an example of captains and senior f/o's looking to address a problem that a number on here (myself included) thought wasn't possible due to a general attitude of looking out for number 1 (through our whole society rather than just our profession).
I'm glad to say that despite being in its infancy, I feel a snowball has been released down a hill and it could gain momentum. I'm only sorry to say that BALPA haven't been the catalyst for this, it has grown elsewhere.
Realisation has started to set in that if pilots now entering the market are in a position of being offered options such as paying upwards of £30k for a TR + line hours scheme, 7 months on 5 months off contracts will ultimately erode their future T&C's and benefits. A senior f/o gaining promotion to capt will have to sign a new contract with terms partly influenced by what executives have got/will try to get away with at the lower levels.
I'm also glad to say that a number of captains are unhappy and urging solidarity too, a feeling of unfairness and (who would have thought it) walking that mile in another man's (replace with "younger pilot's") shoes to compare things now to when they started out.
Knowledge in the fact these newbie pilots have no promises, only hopes that their indignant initial contract may be improved or extended. But who is to say that will happen when they can easily be shunted aside, put on a hold pool list after 1 or 2 years from their start date? Who is to know if they will go again via a school or advertise for more £30k+ ers to help the balance sheet and keep the shareholders happy rather than offer a contract to the discarded pilot that comes with the benefits and standard pre-requisites that is expected in our profession (loss of licence insurance, medicals, pension, full employee opposed to summer only).
An understanding that some of the more unscrupulous airline management know there will always be people to help fund their balance sheet means that the message is getting out there to people who can really influence the airlines.
Be aware, the pilots with clout in this industry are now wincing at the smell of this behaviour by their airlines and even though it is just talk at present but I hope it progresses and escalates exponentially.
NB I can't reveal the airline in question as it would betray the confidence placed in me and may pre-warn the management that things are stirring, so please don't ask either publicly or by PM.
It's been well documented on here some of the schemes on offer via Easyjet and alike where either the need for income or aspiration of the job is played on by airline accountants/executives to exploit newly qualified pilots.
Finally I have seen an example of captains and senior f/o's looking to address a problem that a number on here (myself included) thought wasn't possible due to a general attitude of looking out for number 1 (through our whole society rather than just our profession).
I'm glad to say that despite being in its infancy, I feel a snowball has been released down a hill and it could gain momentum. I'm only sorry to say that BALPA haven't been the catalyst for this, it has grown elsewhere.
Realisation has started to set in that if pilots now entering the market are in a position of being offered options such as paying upwards of £30k for a TR + line hours scheme, 7 months on 5 months off contracts will ultimately erode their future T&C's and benefits. A senior f/o gaining promotion to capt will have to sign a new contract with terms partly influenced by what executives have got/will try to get away with at the lower levels.
I'm also glad to say that a number of captains are unhappy and urging solidarity too, a feeling of unfairness and (who would have thought it) walking that mile in another man's (replace with "younger pilot's") shoes to compare things now to when they started out.
Knowledge in the fact these newbie pilots have no promises, only hopes that their indignant initial contract may be improved or extended. But who is to say that will happen when they can easily be shunted aside, put on a hold pool list after 1 or 2 years from their start date? Who is to know if they will go again via a school or advertise for more £30k+ ers to help the balance sheet and keep the shareholders happy rather than offer a contract to the discarded pilot that comes with the benefits and standard pre-requisites that is expected in our profession (loss of licence insurance, medicals, pension, full employee opposed to summer only).
An understanding that some of the more unscrupulous airline management know there will always be people to help fund their balance sheet means that the message is getting out there to people who can really influence the airlines.
Be aware, the pilots with clout in this industry are now wincing at the smell of this behaviour by their airlines and even though it is just talk at present but I hope it progresses and escalates exponentially.
NB I can't reveal the airline in question as it would betray the confidence placed in me and may pre-warn the management that things are stirring, so please don't ask either publicly or by PM.
Last edited by Dreamshiner; 13th Feb 2010 at 06:25.
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Noble sentiments indeed and I agree with your prediction regarding new captains being screwed along with the bottom feeders who are paying for their type rating and line flying. Except for two things. Firstly, BALPA isn't someone else, it's us. It is a club in which we all have a say, both at national level but more importantly within the companies where they are recognised. If your colleagues aren't members, haven't obtained recognition or have decided to bother with what happens to the bottom feeders, then that's not a BALPA issue. It is one for your colleagues to answer.
But the most important bit has been missed. When HR screw you over, like they are doing with the bottom feeders at the moment, they do so knowing that they are untouchable. No matter the level indignation escalation, even if exponentially, sod all will happen to your T's & C's. To make management change you have to have them by THEIR balls. When they already have their hands inside your trousers (like it appears that they have in your case), your prognosis is not good.
To change, you need union recognition. Currently, the best one we have BALPA.
Best of luck.
PM
But the most important bit has been missed. When HR screw you over, like they are doing with the bottom feeders at the moment, they do so knowing that they are untouchable. No matter the level indignation escalation, even if exponentially, sod all will happen to your T's & C's. To make management change you have to have them by THEIR balls. When they already have their hands inside your trousers (like it appears that they have in your case), your prognosis is not good.
To change, you need union recognition. Currently, the best one we have BALPA.
Best of luck.
PM
Last edited by Piltdown Man; 15th Feb 2010 at 21:48.
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Yes, noble sentiments Dreamshiner, it is clear that everyone will eventually suffer from this.
Unfortunately, whilst every chap you sit next to will state that things are shocking, horrific etc etc (no one is going to say 'yeah, things are great, I love what they are doing to you guys!), this doesn't mean there will be any action whatsoever. As above, only the union can act.... and they won't. If they were planning on it, wouldn't they have acted already beyond a poorly researched article saying cadets suck?
Unfortunately, whilst every chap you sit next to will state that things are shocking, horrific etc etc (no one is going to say 'yeah, things are great, I love what they are doing to you guys!), this doesn't mean there will be any action whatsoever. As above, only the union can act.... and they won't. If they were planning on it, wouldn't they have acted already beyond a poorly researched article saying cadets suck?
Have heard similar things pilot chris.....so will echo what you've heard....seems a little stirring is happening (albeit on a small-ish scale) within more than one company, most definitely within one of the Lo-Co's for certain !
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I wouldn't worry too much about it to be honest.
From what I hear, a certain A320 lo-co who are growing rapidly are struggling to fill all the seats they need to with anywhere near the candidate level required.
I'm also led to believe that an Irish airline are struggling to find enough FO's to promote at the minute, and that once again, the quality of applicant for external jobs has decreased markedly.
They can say what they like, and tell us they have 1000's of applicants, but.....they don't. They may have 1000's of names on a server, but when the chips are down, most won't join.
There IS going to be a shortage of suitably qualified, experienced people this year and going forward.
There may never be a shortage of 200 hour heroes, but the fact that there is a real shortage of experience will, by necessity, stop this recession led, pay to fly nonsense.
You heard it here first. It's not got long to go.
My advice if you've got a licence. Don't buy a rating. Wait another 3 months. See what's happening then.
From what I hear, a certain A320 lo-co who are growing rapidly are struggling to fill all the seats they need to with anywhere near the candidate level required.
I'm also led to believe that an Irish airline are struggling to find enough FO's to promote at the minute, and that once again, the quality of applicant for external jobs has decreased markedly.
They can say what they like, and tell us they have 1000's of applicants, but.....they don't. They may have 1000's of names on a server, but when the chips are down, most won't join.
There IS going to be a shortage of suitably qualified, experienced people this year and going forward.
There may never be a shortage of 200 hour heroes, but the fact that there is a real shortage of experience will, by necessity, stop this recession led, pay to fly nonsense.
You heard it here first. It's not got long to go.
My advice if you've got a licence. Don't buy a rating. Wait another 3 months. See what's happening then.
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Deamshiner - I hope you are right, it seems a strong feeling in all of us however very few seem to be willing to fight it.
Piltdown Man - Balpa? Us? Not me Im afraid, I may pay my dues and have access to the forum but trying to get help or an answer to any question is a forlorn experience. Balpa in my opinion is a toothless dinosaur that only looks after itself.
A certain major airline out of Heathrow plans to continue pay2fly whilst making a lot of us redundant! Now that stings!!!!
Piltdown Man - Balpa? Us? Not me Im afraid, I may pay my dues and have access to the forum but trying to get help or an answer to any question is a forlorn experience. Balpa in my opinion is a toothless dinosaur that only looks after itself.
A certain major airline out of Heathrow plans to continue pay2fly whilst making a lot of us redundant! Now that stings!!!!
Stansdead - heard very similar things, nice to have it confirmed by others ! lol
Apparently a certain orange-ish carrier are being a little more friendly in their dealings with staff these days which to my mind would suggest they know that the market is slowly picking up for more experienced guys and that maybe, just maybe they realise that if t's & c's are eroded much further then an exodus of current staff may (i say may) be on the cards - will be interesting to watch and see how things recover over the coming months and years !
Apparently a certain orange-ish carrier are being a little more friendly in their dealings with staff these days which to my mind would suggest they know that the market is slowly picking up for more experienced guys and that maybe, just maybe they realise that if t's & c's are eroded much further then an exodus of current staff may (i say may) be on the cards - will be interesting to watch and see how things recover over the coming months and years !
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Pitdown Man - I'm sorry to say my experience of BALPA is an organisation out of touch and not wiling to rock the boat when/if they decide to get involved. Bellyfluffer's description of a toothless dinosaur is actually a compliment in my book. They won't be forced into action until a main revenue stream is attacked, as yet it hasn't happened.
When you hear of things like the Canadian pilots at TCX on a reciprocal deal but it isn't fair you really wonder if it is incompetence or naivety that allowed the contract to be agreed to and signed.
This isn't the only example, the list goes on and on.
When you hear of things like the Canadian pilots at TCX on a reciprocal deal but it isn't fair you really wonder if it is incompetence or naivety that allowed the contract to be agreed to and signed.
This isn't the only example, the list goes on and on.
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Problem is polax, BALPA haven't really covered themselves in glory with their record so far. I tend to leave blind faith to those who are into religion.
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BALPA,
Oh dear, if anyone thinks that BALPA will be of any use then just look at where we currently are...............Dreamshiner is spot on.
I've been in this business for 22 years now and it depresses me to see what we've become, all under the clear view of BALPA. I paid my BALPA fees for a while but gave up due to the hopeless, helpless and hapless people who claim to look after our interests. Can you imagine any other profession, ANY OTHER PROFESSION, that would allow it to become what we have. I'm ashamed and will try my hardest to stop my son following me into this game............
Oh dear, if anyone thinks that BALPA will be of any use then just look at where we currently are...............Dreamshiner is spot on.
I've been in this business for 22 years now and it depresses me to see what we've become, all under the clear view of BALPA. I paid my BALPA fees for a while but gave up due to the hopeless, helpless and hapless people who claim to look after our interests. Can you imagine any other profession, ANY OTHER PROFESSION, that would allow it to become what we have. I'm ashamed and will try my hardest to stop my son following me into this game............
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Well Gents, BALPA is all we've got
Sadly from what dealings I've had with pilots, they seem to be all mouth, no trousers, and always looking out for No.1. (I know this doesn't apply to all, before you start bashing me - there are still some good guys out there - but are there enough to make a difference ?).
As much as I'd like to believe what I'm reading here, I feel that sadly when my turn comes for that first flying job, I'll still end up having to stump up the cash.
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I think its safe to say paying for a TR or obtaining an instructor rating is now expected so any new people entering the market should factor the cost into their initial sums. To avoid doing so is burying your head in the sand.
Things may change when employers can't satisfy demand, but that's a few years off and I think the damage has already been done. The extra level of training now exists because someone working for an airline said "why not ask them to pay", it was trialled and they got an interest, the airline exec got a bonus.
There is another pilot body in the UK, the IPA was formed (correct me if I'm wrong) after the demise of Dan Air initially as a group tasked with looking out for their welfare. Over time morphed into a union.
My own research into them was they charged £6 for an unemployed/student member, I would imagine they would look for a similar percentage of the salary as BALPA for those working.
The impression I got was they had good intentions but I was sure if they had much teeth when it came to negotiating or recognition due to the smallish member base.
Things may change when employers can't satisfy demand, but that's a few years off and I think the damage has already been done. The extra level of training now exists because someone working for an airline said "why not ask them to pay", it was trialled and they got an interest, the airline exec got a bonus.
There is another pilot body in the UK, the IPA was formed (correct me if I'm wrong) after the demise of Dan Air initially as a group tasked with looking out for their welfare. Over time morphed into a union.
My own research into them was they charged £6 for an unemployed/student member, I would imagine they would look for a similar percentage of the salary as BALPA for those working.
The impression I got was they had good intentions but I was sure if they had much teeth when it came to negotiating or recognition due to the smallish member base.
Last edited by Dreamshiner; 14th Feb 2010 at 23:21.
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It's just a question of time that wanabes realize they will never get a job with 500hours on the bus and a total time of 700hours.
Schools are shooting a bullet in their own feet. Who want join a school and pay over 100k and be in debt for 10 years knowing there is no career anymore in aviation and the only end is to lose your house or if you're lucky, go bankrupt.
Still , most airlines around the world will ask for 1500-2000 hours total, so many easywhore pilots won't find a real paid job.They pay over 100k just to have fun for a few months on the bus, and be in hell for the next 10 years....not worth it!
Schools are shooting a bullet in their own feet. Who want join a school and pay over 100k and be in debt for 10 years knowing there is no career anymore in aviation and the only end is to lose your house or if you're lucky, go bankrupt.
Still , most airlines around the world will ask for 1500-2000 hours total, so many easywhore pilots won't find a real paid job.They pay over 100k just to have fun for a few months on the bus, and be in hell for the next 10 years....not worth it!
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First, thanks to those who sent PM's thanking me for posting this thread.
Second, its been a tough time for our industry, nobody can deny this and it's highlighted for new pilots entering it.
When I think of everything that's happened so far this decade I think you have go back to the 70's to get anything close and even then it wasn't on the same scale as the past 10 years:
2001 9-11
2002 SARS
2003 War in Iraq
2007 Worldwide Recession
2008 $140 barrel of Oil
2009 Swine Flu
No doubt there are other world events I have missed affecting aviation, however don't forget the retirement age being extended to 65 at a lot of airlines reducing recruitment needs and promotion prospects for a few years. Consolidation of a number of airlines resulting in recruitment freezes and redundancies.
As for BALPA, I can't help feeling they are just not getting it. There are serious issues affecting indigenous British/UK based pilots. I list 7-5 contracts, hiring of foreign nationals on reciprocal agreements (however it appears to be leaning heavily one way) and the constant raising of the training threshold (and consequently costs) newly qualified pilots have to attain to get into the industry. I keep on returning to the image of the behaviour of the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm when I think of our union.
I signed on to the website last night and read through their forum. Very quick to congratulate themselves for getting PaddyPower to stop taking bets on next airline to go tits up, however I didn't see one response from any BALPA exec on the Easyjet/CTC/Pay 2 Fly scheme thread despite going onto 5 pages.
On the pertinent issues their priorities are questionable and their silence is deafening.
Second, its been a tough time for our industry, nobody can deny this and it's highlighted for new pilots entering it.
When I think of everything that's happened so far this decade I think you have go back to the 70's to get anything close and even then it wasn't on the same scale as the past 10 years:
2001 9-11
2002 SARS
2003 War in Iraq
2007 Worldwide Recession
2008 $140 barrel of Oil
2009 Swine Flu
No doubt there are other world events I have missed affecting aviation, however don't forget the retirement age being extended to 65 at a lot of airlines reducing recruitment needs and promotion prospects for a few years. Consolidation of a number of airlines resulting in recruitment freezes and redundancies.
As for BALPA, I can't help feeling they are just not getting it. There are serious issues affecting indigenous British/UK based pilots. I list 7-5 contracts, hiring of foreign nationals on reciprocal agreements (however it appears to be leaning heavily one way) and the constant raising of the training threshold (and consequently costs) newly qualified pilots have to attain to get into the industry. I keep on returning to the image of the behaviour of the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm when I think of our union.
I signed on to the website last night and read through their forum. Very quick to congratulate themselves for getting PaddyPower to stop taking bets on next airline to go tits up, however I didn't see one response from any BALPA exec on the Easyjet/CTC/Pay 2 Fly scheme thread despite going onto 5 pages.
On the pertinent issues their priorities are questionable and their silence is deafening.
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This is a little 'off the cuff' in terms of a reply as I am dashing out but I agree re BALPA.
Lets stop making excuses for BALPA. (they need more members etc etc) The current members don't necessarily expect them to change things but BALPA don't even seem to fully acknowledge the demise in terms and conditions that have occurred/are occurring. If they did then we would hear more from them and there would be less need constantly raise the subject on forums like this.
BALPA should be taking the lead. They should be leading us and they don't. They don't even respond to the anger/frustration of the members.
I have come to the conclusion that we need BA guys to become involved more. I say this because for a long time they and others have probably held the view that what the loco's get up to is a matter for them. If you are daft enough to accept the terms and conditions then more fool you, etc etc. But they must see that the way some loco's operate gives them a competitive advantage which will over time effect them. The loco's get stronger and expand, tighten their grip and you will weaken or at the very least have to so alter your T & C to compete. For now its the FO's/short haul thats most effected. Soon it will be LH and Capt's.
They, I believe/hope can influence BALPA to take the issue and its members frustration seriously.
Lets stop making excuses for BALPA. (they need more members etc etc) The current members don't necessarily expect them to change things but BALPA don't even seem to fully acknowledge the demise in terms and conditions that have occurred/are occurring. If they did then we would hear more from them and there would be less need constantly raise the subject on forums like this.
BALPA should be taking the lead. They should be leading us and they don't. They don't even respond to the anger/frustration of the members.
I have come to the conclusion that we need BA guys to become involved more. I say this because for a long time they and others have probably held the view that what the loco's get up to is a matter for them. If you are daft enough to accept the terms and conditions then more fool you, etc etc. But they must see that the way some loco's operate gives them a competitive advantage which will over time effect them. The loco's get stronger and expand, tighten their grip and you will weaken or at the very least have to so alter your T & C to compete. For now its the FO's/short haul thats most effected. Soon it will be LH and Capt's.
They, I believe/hope can influence BALPA to take the issue and its members frustration seriously.
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Hi,
I agree with most comments with regard to BALPA. The way they undertake their duties is to put it mildly, shocking. It always use to amaze me when I use to recieve the log, how many finance adverts, articles etc were in it. The best one ever was the one about buying your retirement yacht and how not to pay tax on it. Superb!!
May be they could extend it for the newbies with regard to Bankruptcy, family tax credits, signing-on for your first time, etc..
Unfortunately, the rot as set in. Out of 5 of my colleagues that I trained with 3 paid for line-training and TR. Myself and another had to pay for a TR. The 3 that paid for the line-training, 2 are sons of multi-millionaires and the other is a foreign national who's government paid for it !
BALPA is finished in my eyes, a pretencious organisation not fit for purpose, who's fees are ridiculous. They make estate agents look honest.
The IPA is not a union and they even say so. It's a welfare association and thats it.
TGWU is the only UNION now. Look how they treat their members, Tube drivers £50,000 a year. Now they have balls. They may seem militant but better to be militant than ineffective.
Best regards
I agree with most comments with regard to BALPA. The way they undertake their duties is to put it mildly, shocking. It always use to amaze me when I use to recieve the log, how many finance adverts, articles etc were in it. The best one ever was the one about buying your retirement yacht and how not to pay tax on it. Superb!!
May be they could extend it for the newbies with regard to Bankruptcy, family tax credits, signing-on for your first time, etc..
Unfortunately, the rot as set in. Out of 5 of my colleagues that I trained with 3 paid for line-training and TR. Myself and another had to pay for a TR. The 3 that paid for the line-training, 2 are sons of multi-millionaires and the other is a foreign national who's government paid for it !
BALPA is finished in my eyes, a pretencious organisation not fit for purpose, who's fees are ridiculous. They make estate agents look honest.
The IPA is not a union and they even say so. It's a welfare association and thats it.
TGWU is the only UNION now. Look how they treat their members, Tube drivers £50,000 a year. Now they have balls. They may seem militant but better to be militant than ineffective.
Best regards
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Orvil
TGWU is now called Unite after merging with several others, read it on their website or wiki.
I have long been an advocate of BALPA getting under the folds of Unite but, until that happens, I think that Unite would direct you to BALPA if you wished to join, my info may be out of date so don't take my word on it.
I have long been an advocate of BALPA getting under the folds of Unite but, until that happens, I think that Unite would direct you to BALPA if you wished to join, my info may be out of date so don't take my word on it.
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BALPA isn't the leader nor is it the agenda setter. It is a union of its members and they set its direction. Their job is not to trailblaze nor does it exist to rock the boat. Unless of course, it's members want to take action. And the way that happens nowadays, because of that heartless bitch Thatcher, is company by company. Every time you take action, you have to follow the law, letter by letter. I have been down that road and we came to an agreement (thank you Jenny, Carl et al). In doing so, we are receiving the benefit of our membership on a regular, ongoing basis.
But I have to ask - just how exactly can BALPA persuade an employer or an industry to change its ways? Realistically there is not a hope. Today, changes have to be forced through on company by company basis. You have to be prepared to pay hardball and REALLY be prepare to go on STRIKE. No pain, no gain. The clever bit is make the pain one sided. And that is where BALPA help. So to the mouth and trousers brigade, when was the last time you balloted for industrial action?
I'll give you the fancy fire-lighter called "The Log" is a bit beyond me. The ads, personals and articles are aimed at people who work in a different profession to me. This publication does the union no good whatsoever and merely serves to make its apparent readership a bunch of overpaid sky-gods.
But if you work for a UK company, you have to have a proper union. Whatever you say about BALPA, it is still the only thing we have. But it is arranged in such a way that YOU control its support in YOUR company to affect YOUR T's & C's. So if you feel it's not working for you, you are either in the minority or not actively playing your part. Or maybe you are not even a member.
PM
But I have to ask - just how exactly can BALPA persuade an employer or an industry to change its ways? Realistically there is not a hope. Today, changes have to be forced through on company by company basis. You have to be prepared to pay hardball and REALLY be prepare to go on STRIKE. No pain, no gain. The clever bit is make the pain one sided. And that is where BALPA help. So to the mouth and trousers brigade, when was the last time you balloted for industrial action?
I'll give you the fancy fire-lighter called "The Log" is a bit beyond me. The ads, personals and articles are aimed at people who work in a different profession to me. This publication does the union no good whatsoever and merely serves to make its apparent readership a bunch of overpaid sky-gods.
But if you work for a UK company, you have to have a proper union. Whatever you say about BALPA, it is still the only thing we have. But it is arranged in such a way that YOU control its support in YOUR company to affect YOUR T's & C's. So if you feel it's not working for you, you are either in the minority or not actively playing your part. Or maybe you are not even a member.
PM
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Essentially BALPA is a business PM, not very many businesses who wish to survive sit by and watch idly as their customer and income base is eroded when they can influence it.
If 50 unemployed/students (£2 a month) asked them to do something or 2 BA pilots paying their 1%, who do you think they would prioritise. Democracy and fairness would suggest the former, reality and commercial income means the latter.
An industry/employer could have been influenced in its activities if it was scrutinised rigorously rather than allowed to implement, watch others follow suit and then seemingly ignore in the hope it will go away.
Don't be naive to suggest that pilots upon gaining their first airline job would want to or be in a position to rock the boat by turning into little Skargill until they were established and safe on the seniority list.
As an industry body they should be scanning all media outlets and using every means possible of gathering intelligence regarding this industry. When something blatantly flouts what has gone before they should be all over it like a rash. I want my industry body acting as opposed to reacting. However it seems to me they are more concerned about the colour of the toilet paper in a BA social club.
Just one look at their forum (if you have access) confirms to me they aren't using initiative to act in advance of negative issues for us and are in fact going after easy issues to fill press releases. I don't want the general secretary composing and drafting a letter to PaddyPower and MP's about bets, I want him suing his time better by going to TCX and saying, "so this Canadian thing, baseless mumblings on PPRuNe isn't it?". They monitor that and no doubt these boards and do we ever hear/see anything with any oomph.
I sincerely think a lot of the issues I have already listed will affect us all from 250TT CPL'ers to 20,000 TRI/TRE'ers.
However this thread wasn't started to end up as a BALPA bash, it was to highlight that those who are seemingly safe on the seniority lists from any upheaval are actually starting to show real empathy with those on the first rung of their careers and unite behind a common theme. I was just saddened that BALPA weren't the catalyst.
If 50 unemployed/students (£2 a month) asked them to do something or 2 BA pilots paying their 1%, who do you think they would prioritise. Democracy and fairness would suggest the former, reality and commercial income means the latter.
An industry/employer could have been influenced in its activities if it was scrutinised rigorously rather than allowed to implement, watch others follow suit and then seemingly ignore in the hope it will go away.
Don't be naive to suggest that pilots upon gaining their first airline job would want to or be in a position to rock the boat by turning into little Skargill until they were established and safe on the seniority list.
As an industry body they should be scanning all media outlets and using every means possible of gathering intelligence regarding this industry. When something blatantly flouts what has gone before they should be all over it like a rash. I want my industry body acting as opposed to reacting. However it seems to me they are more concerned about the colour of the toilet paper in a BA social club.
Just one look at their forum (if you have access) confirms to me they aren't using initiative to act in advance of negative issues for us and are in fact going after easy issues to fill press releases. I don't want the general secretary composing and drafting a letter to PaddyPower and MP's about bets, I want him suing his time better by going to TCX and saying, "so this Canadian thing, baseless mumblings on PPRuNe isn't it?". They monitor that and no doubt these boards and do we ever hear/see anything with any oomph.
I sincerely think a lot of the issues I have already listed will affect us all from 250TT CPL'ers to 20,000 TRI/TRE'ers.
However this thread wasn't started to end up as a BALPA bash, it was to highlight that those who are seemingly safe on the seniority lists from any upheaval are actually starting to show real empathy with those on the first rung of their careers and unite behind a common theme. I was just saddened that BALPA weren't the catalyst.