easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract
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Without flight crew the airline cannot function and that is the huge power that we have and collectively refuse to use.
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Beak,
May I suggest that instead of making your points, and then saying, "that's it, let's get back on topic," you allow others to voice their opinions without retaliation from yourself. You're drawing a lot of anger and hatred through abuse and what would be called bullying outside of a forum.
As far as I can tell you have yet to come up with a solution, except not to pay to train. Great, well how do we stop the people who can afford to do it, doing it?
As for correcting spelling and then getting something wrong yourself, may I just say... Guffaw....
May I suggest that instead of making your points, and then saying, "that's it, let's get back on topic," you allow others to voice their opinions without retaliation from yourself. You're drawing a lot of anger and hatred through abuse and what would be called bullying outside of a forum.
As far as I can tell you have yet to come up with a solution, except not to pay to train. Great, well how do we stop the people who can afford to do it, doing it?
As for correcting spelling and then getting something wrong yourself, may I just say... Guffaw....
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One said that "Pilots...sad to say...do not add value" or something like that...
I have to disagree...nowadays everyone takes flight safety for granted...but wait for the first disaster related to questionnable competence of a crew or exhausted pilots (or any combination of the two, as for colgan air) and all of a sudden, the public and the regulator will step in and the added value of a good crew will all of a sudden become apparent...once again...
I have to disagree...nowadays everyone takes flight safety for granted...but wait for the first disaster related to questionnable competence of a crew or exhausted pilots (or any combination of the two, as for colgan air) and all of a sudden, the public and the regulator will step in and the added value of a good crew will all of a sudden become apparent...once again...
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I recall seeing a post a while back detailing a dinner conversation with a EZY accountant on this very subject.
This above 'post' as source, TheBeak is quite correct in his analysis of the managerial perception of the pilot work force. Beak is not suggesting that it is desirable, or even accurate, but it does explain why PTF is ubiquotous. Revenue generated from these 'Ruperts' in their 'Gold Bars' is highly attractive and supports the management bonus. Fabulous!!
This above 'post' as source, TheBeak is quite correct in his analysis of the managerial perception of the pilot work force. Beak is not suggesting that it is desirable, or even accurate, but it does explain why PTF is ubiquotous. Revenue generated from these 'Ruperts' in their 'Gold Bars' is highly attractive and supports the management bonus. Fabulous!!
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Max reheat and 5 rings.... I must apologise, the quote you have both mentioned has actually been misinterpreted due to my exceptionally poor wording. What I meant Is that traditionally a flight deck with a decent experience level would probably cost the company >£150k per year. This is very very expensive when viewed in context of the cost savings or revenue generation it can directly bring. Thus companies seek to mitigate and reduce the cost impact.
What those same companies miss however, very sadly is that actually, these staff members are the one thing that absolutely will stop the business in it's tracks. What's even sadder is that, as max says, pilots seem reticent to demonstrate exactly how important they are to the overall business.
I hope I've cleared that up, I certainly did not mean that pilots offer no value...purely that a pilots ability to affect finances of the company is very small in comparison to their perceived cost. It is a tremendous shame that focus on just how very important they are has been lost.
What those same companies miss however, very sadly is that actually, these staff members are the one thing that absolutely will stop the business in it's tracks. What's even sadder is that, as max says, pilots seem reticent to demonstrate exactly how important they are to the overall business.
I hope I've cleared that up, I certainly did not mean that pilots offer no value...purely that a pilots ability to affect finances of the company is very small in comparison to their perceived cost. It is a tremendous shame that focus on just how very important they are has been lost.
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When I worked in Germany, I flew with several high quality first officers who had paid for their rating and line training costs (20 DM / hour).
One had no twin rating until he obtained the 737 rating, even having a single IR, which was allowed by the LBA.
The same guy is now a 747 captain.
Easyjet has gone one stage further than RYR and is actively using the income from these cadets to boost revenue through turnover, every 6 months or so another batch, and no guarantee of a job at the end.
RYR has a much better system and ultimately if the student reaches the grade a well paid job at the end.
Those who bleet on here about Easyjet should ask themselves if they had not been given a type rating, and were today looking for a job would they try and put together the money to take a similar job oppourtunity.
Or wait for Flight every week to see if the job section had anything to offer, whilst bemoaning the fact that they were being hard done by as they were passed over, by those with some get up and go.
Incidently I know that there are parents, grand parents and even single parents who are standing guarantee for those who were able to get the cost of the course together, also some cadets have sold their only assets to raise the money required, and otherwise begged and borrowed to make up the difference.
Its these motivated and well selected people who are now starting the courses.
Ask how I know, the answer is simple I know several of those who applied.
IF I had the funds I would have liked to have help some of those who could not afford the course with a loan.
But as many know to get a small fortune in aviation you must first start with a big one, neither of which I have.
One had no twin rating until he obtained the 737 rating, even having a single IR, which was allowed by the LBA.
The same guy is now a 747 captain.
Easyjet has gone one stage further than RYR and is actively using the income from these cadets to boost revenue through turnover, every 6 months or so another batch, and no guarantee of a job at the end.
RYR has a much better system and ultimately if the student reaches the grade a well paid job at the end.
Those who bleet on here about Easyjet should ask themselves if they had not been given a type rating, and were today looking for a job would they try and put together the money to take a similar job oppourtunity.
Or wait for Flight every week to see if the job section had anything to offer, whilst bemoaning the fact that they were being hard done by as they were passed over, by those with some get up and go.
Incidently I know that there are parents, grand parents and even single parents who are standing guarantee for those who were able to get the cost of the course together, also some cadets have sold their only assets to raise the money required, and otherwise begged and borrowed to make up the difference.
Its these motivated and well selected people who are now starting the courses.
Ask how I know, the answer is simple I know several of those who applied.
IF I had the funds I would have liked to have help some of those who could not afford the course with a loan.
But as many know to get a small fortune in aviation you must first start with a big one, neither of which I have.
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You are a sickening socialist and are probably trying to coerce argument.
I am going to take this:
Print it out and wipe my ar5e on it because that's all it's worth.
I am going to take this:
Incidently I know that there are parents, grand parents and even single parents who are standing guarantee for those who were able to get the cost of the course together, also some cadets have sold their only assets to raise the money required, and otherwise begged and borrowed to make up the difference.
Its these motivated and well selected people who are now starting the courses.
Ask how I know, the answer is simple I know several of those who applied.
IF I had the funds I would have liked to have help some of those who could not afford the course with a loan.
But as many know to get a small fortune in aviation you must first start with a big one, neither of which I have.
Its these motivated and well selected people who are now starting the courses.
Ask how I know, the answer is simple I know several of those who applied.
IF I had the funds I would have liked to have help some of those who could not afford the course with a loan.
But as many know to get a small fortune in aviation you must first start with a big one, neither of which I have.
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Beak,
I am tempted to write that if you knew you were insulting one of the most senior pilots, if not the top one, in a rather large pan European airline, that maybe you would put a sock in it,
I am tempted to write that if you knew you were insulting one of the most senior pilots, if not the top one, in a rather large pan European airline, that maybe you would put a sock in it,
but you'll never be in a position to learn from them because you already know everything and perhaps also because you can't/won't/aren't going to pay to fly
Hang on a minute, we are on the CTC forum again - I thought we were on the OAA forum - apologies! I stand by the wiping my ar5e with your PTF words though.
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His disregard for selection and his open heart towards people of varying financial backgrounds supporting people through their training. He thinks it's commendable that people pay to fly. Why? Probably because it is what his son did after finishing Oxford though I admit I am guessing and I could be way off - I am sure I am. It fits his scenario. Ultimately he is socialist because he seems to believe in this 'shared ownership' of the training and the end result. An example:
Now I have justified my comment, I don't wish to over analyse the chap as I am sure he is a sound person and this is becoming deeply irrelevant to the thread.
Is that ok?
Art: a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation. Thank you Adios! That aside, play nice - this is only a rumour network - I am starting to feel like a troll with all this nit picking. Forget the character assassinations, as I will, and stay focussed on the important topic shall we?
IF I had the funds I would have liked to have help some of those who could not afford the course with a loan.
Is that ok?
Art: a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation. Thank you Adios! That aside, play nice - this is only a rumour network - I am starting to feel like a troll with all this nit picking. Forget the character assassinations, as I will, and stay focussed on the important topic shall we?
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Beak
Is that ok?
If it's any consolation, I don't agree with his stance either.
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Beak
Everyone is entitled to their own belief and those who stand up for their belief often deserve credit. I wouldn't say anyone here would suggest that you don't have an arguement, however the way that you present yours seems to ensure any credibility to that very arguement becomes lost. We have been involved in debates relating to Ryanair and I had often felt, at stages, that the particular points that you made were apt and even commendable.
Unfortunately your tenaciousness causes you to throw insults, name call, generalise, characterise and make assumptions. My personal favorite is your avid love of the English dictionary; bizarre if nothing else! You possibly believe that it substantiates your arguement? However everything afterwards becomes a bit of a struggle, does it not? If you believe so do you ever stop and wonder why?
Everyone is entitled to their own belief and those who stand up for their belief often deserve credit. I wouldn't say anyone here would suggest that you don't have an arguement, however the way that you present yours seems to ensure any credibility to that very arguement becomes lost. We have been involved in debates relating to Ryanair and I had often felt, at stages, that the particular points that you made were apt and even commendable.
Unfortunately your tenaciousness causes you to throw insults, name call, generalise, characterise and make assumptions. My personal favorite is your avid love of the English dictionary; bizarre if nothing else! You possibly believe that it substantiates your arguement? However everything afterwards becomes a bit of a struggle, does it not? If you believe so do you ever stop and wonder why?
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 16th Jan 2010 at 21:48.
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Beak, while I do read your comments with interest, I think the level in which you're wording the posts you make, has reached a new low...
I'm interested to know - what job do you do 9-5? Having chatted through pprune I.M. with you and read a few of your posts - I believe you completed OAA training, and now don't find yourself in the RHS. You paid for your training having worked for a friends stock trading business.
In the grand scheme of things, if you don't owe money for the training that you received, I doubt you have a bank after your neck for the £xK that people normally borrow. Therefore you probably don't have a property (yours/parents) at risk. Yet you still come across as THE MOST bitter person who has gone through a major FTO for a ME/IR/CPL etc...
So bitter infact, that it makes me suspicious. Also, you have so much time on your hands to post on Pprune, it make me suspicious. I don't disagree with the solid advice you give here. I do however disagree with the tone in which you use. A tone, which has become disgraceful.
If I had a fATPL, needed a job; needed to reach 1500tt ASAP; on a perm contract, then I would not be spending any of my time in Pprune slating future cadets, and asking people to wipe their sh1t with your words.
I'm interested to know - what job do you do 9-5? Having chatted through pprune I.M. with you and read a few of your posts - I believe you completed OAA training, and now don't find yourself in the RHS. You paid for your training having worked for a friends stock trading business.
In the grand scheme of things, if you don't owe money for the training that you received, I doubt you have a bank after your neck for the £xK that people normally borrow. Therefore you probably don't have a property (yours/parents) at risk. Yet you still come across as THE MOST bitter person who has gone through a major FTO for a ME/IR/CPL etc...
So bitter infact, that it makes me suspicious. Also, you have so much time on your hands to post on Pprune, it make me suspicious. I don't disagree with the solid advice you give here. I do however disagree with the tone in which you use. A tone, which has become disgraceful.
If I had a fATPL, needed a job; needed to reach 1500tt ASAP; on a perm contract, then I would not be spending any of my time in Pprune slating future cadets, and asking people to wipe their sh1t with your words.