Astraeus A320 Contracts

[backofthedrag]

Is there not some irony in a foreign airline coming to Gatwick and foreign pilots accusing LGW-based English pilots of being scabs taking 'their' jobs.
Presumably the passengers are now 'their' passengers as well.
If Astraeus sets up a low-cost operation out of Dublin - then that would be perfectly welcome , would it ?
Try setting up an Aer Lingus operation anywhere else in the world and calling local applicants scabs !
Get a grip!
It could only happen in Britain .

[Pako9]

I think you're missing the point 'backofthedrag' my auld spoon. Astraeus are bottom feeders(lower than shark sh1t shadow) and unfortunately for them they are only pawns in a big game. 6 months time where will they be????

Sorry, maybe flying Freddie around Europe...Stranger in a strange land !

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

Backofthedrag : what it says at the bottom of every Pprune page surely applies to you ...As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

Firstly NOBODY is talking about scabs....welcome to the new EU, Globalisation, and the world of Wet and Dry leasing......this little Union busting game has nothing to do with pilots nationalities, accents, football teams etc... indeed I believe most of the real Aer Lingus employed LGW based Pilots are "English" although that matters nothing to anyone in this game...except observers like you !!!

This is more about poor unfortunate Astraeus Pilots who are being USED as a pawn in an Industrial dispute game which is being played out in Dublin.....once it gets sorted out in Dublin, which WILL happen sooner rather than later I might add......the poor unfortunate Astraeus guys will be back flying Astraeus only metal, and the Aer Lingus Pilots only will be back flying Green EI metal.....

All the Astraeus Pilots will have achieved apart from a few hours, and a bit of cash, is certainly making Astraeus' owners richer, and helping UNDERMINE terms and conditions of Airline Pilots across Europe.

[Full Left Rudder]

My apologies if I have missed the information amongst all the discussion on this thread, but I would be grateful if anyone knows the answers to the following:

Prior to the Astraeus contract, Aer Lingus were operating from LGW on an Irish AOC. What have the Aer Lingus management said the reason is for using the the Astraeus AOC for six months rather than continue on the Irish one whilst they apply for their own UK AOC?

Secondly, what have the Aer Lingus management said the plan is after the six month period with Astraeus? Are all the crew who have converted at great expense to Astraeus SOPs only to convert straight back to Lingus SOPs?

Just seems that something doesn't quite add up if it is indeed only for a six month period - Lots of money invested for a short period of time without a defined reason for doing it in the first place! I am intrigued to hear from someone with some genuine inside knowledge.

Thanks guys.

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

Yes, Aer Lingus had a base in LGW operating as normal on it's own Irish AOC.

Aer Lingus management initially denied to staff all knowledge of the Astraeus "project" although it's been in the open since at least August. Then they claimed they needed Astraeus to obtain a UK AOC in order to fly from UK to non-EU destinations. More LIES. Then they claimed Astraeus were being brought in to ensure continuity of UK operations during potential forthcoming industrial disputes in ROI. Half truth. Really this whole Astraeus Dry/wet switch lease plan is just another way to add pressure on all IALPA Pilots, both ROI and UK based, and is a stick to beat them with at the Labour Relations Commission talks which are happening in Dublin over the next 10 days.

Management have said nothing about Astraeus after 6 months, as negotiations are at a critical stage involving many stakeholders including Irish Government.

Aer Lingus Flight Ops Dept will never, long term, fly 2 different SOPs, 2 Crew groups etc, expect the Astraeus pawn to get the boot shortly, yes a huge waste of cash, attempt at a Union bust, this plan was cooked up earlier in the year before the new CEO arrived, and in this bad economic climate now never even necessary!!! But EI management are quite good at wasting cash reserves aren't they ..... Astraeus owners must be laughing all the way to the bank....while the EI Pilots will be reconverted back to Irish AOC, more expense!!! Don't worry about it...it's an Irish thing............ahem...Ryanair inspired thing...

[BOAC]

Anyone got an update on 'the way things are going' with the sub? How many hulls? How many routes? How many AL pilots? Gone awfully quiet here.......................

[Stand31]

Bye bye Astraeus!!!. Good riddance

[FIBonacci]

As in you have resigned, retired or something else?

[backofthedrag]

So , the Astraeus link has been severed. Aer Lingus will now need its own UK AOC to operate from LGW outside the EU.
The Astraeus AOC didn't suit.
A new airline will now operate out of LGW consisting of all foreign pilots, with no objections from any ALPA union. Presumabably any Union objection will be supported by IALPA .
My sympathies are with Aer Lingus - they are in a desperate situation.
However there are many out of work pilots at LGW who are British and who have been here for many years . Are we expected to roll over whilst foreigners invade in this manner?

[curser]

Backof thedrag, Congrats, you win the most incoherent post for 2009 award. Your previous post had you as a contender but you clinched it with this last one. Not only did you manage to miss every issue but you introduced zenophobia.

[Lord Lardy]

So , the Astraeus link has been severed. Aer Lingus will now need its own UK AOC to operate from LGW outside the EU.

It was never going to work, partly because they don't operate or haven't announed any routes that require them to use a UK AOC at this present time. I'm led to believe an application is pending. I predicted that this arrangement with Astraues would not work about a month ago on this very thread. I'm not going to gloat about the people who may lose their job as a result of it but it highlights the way Astreaus pilots were used mainly by Aer Lingus to try and break a Union. It didn't work, Aer Lingus have realised this and have severed the contract.

As for saying Aer Lingus are in a desperate state. Unfortunately that's an opinion from somone perhaps with a few sour grapes on board. Aer Lingus are not in a great state at the moment, but they are in a far better postion than most airlines in Europe. The restructuring will be finalised by the end of the year, and with that will bring a market consolidation with a new cost base.

Are we expected to roll over whilst foreigners invade in this manner?

Silly comment hardly worth replying to. I think you'll find the majority of pilots currently based in LGW with Aer Lingus are British. However, their nationality shouldn't matter regardless. It may be worth highlighting to you drag that there are 15 nationalities working as pilots in Aer Lingus at the moment. I'm sure on reflection you'll edit your post to remove that silly part of your argument.

[JW411]

Where on earth is Rainboe when we need him most?

[jmc-man]

I don't get it.
Aer Lingus contract Astraeus to host some of its aircraft on its AOC for a short period while it applies for its own UK AOC.
Aer Lingus pilots operate the aircraft on AEU's AOC. AEU get paid for "hosting". No Aer Lingus pilots lose their jobs. AEU hire some airbus pilots for their own newly acquired A320.
Aerlingus give notice of " early" termination. AEU get paid for the contract. No Aer lingus pilots lose their jobs. No Aeu pilots lose their jobs. The Irish Pilots Union get their way.

Maybe I'm missing something but this looks like a win / win for everyone. (Might have cost Aer Lingus a few quid for the experiment, but I bet AEU rates were "competitive" )

Maybe I'm missing the emotional involvment

[INLAK]

It's all over for Astraeus and their Aer Lingus contract.

[Kirks gusset]

Yes, all over, note in AL Crew room stating arrangement with Astraeus is terminated.. cost AL 9Million! Of course all the AL pilots just line checked go back to AL at Gatwick, rumour is there will be some casualties at AEU Another example of the Unions do the "best for their members".. right up until the point they all get made redundant! Incidently, Redundancy doesn't seem to effect the heads of the unions on their 6 figure salaries..Hmmm, I guess that's life..

[Rainboe]

I think we need a little bit of sense injected here. It was AL that instigated the whole affair, AEU merely responded to a quotation request. We've seen (amongst others) over the last year XL and now sadly Globespan go down. AEU has every right to carve a niche in the aviation business just like any other company. The approbation heaped on it here is ridiculous- the AL pilots should understand it was AL that undercut them, because they were standing far too tall. What the future now holds for them and AL is presumably largely down to the Irish taxpayer or whoever is financing the excessive cost base of the airline- it is of no further interest or business to UKplc. As for AEU, it now operates 737,757 and A320 highly competitively. In period when many have fallen, it has had a really good year. All aeroplanes but the 320 (Ad hoc) are fully devoted to contracts, currently at least six. I hope with the sad demise of Globespan, further work may become available resulting in more employment on the very same types used by Globespan. The only aim of the game is to increase aviation employment and company profitability and benefit UKplc, but this idiot government is doing its best to suffocate UK aviation altogether, and I fear Cameron will be no better. Despite the stupid criticism, AEU comes out well- it followed the contract requirements. It seems AL, at a late stage had, had a big change of plan.

[ska-bearbaiter]

Rainboe, Rainboe, Rainboe. Your euphamistic spin really passed its sell by date a long time ago.

It was AL that instigated the whole affair, AEU merely responded to a quotation request.

Roughly translates as AL needed someone with no scruples to do its dirty work for it and you guys were happy to leave your morals at the door.....

AEU has every right to carve a niche in the aviation business just like any other company.

What did you do in the war, Daddy?

"Well son, I carved a niche for myself ......"

And to Kirks Gussett, are you saying that the AEU pilots were in a union? Well shame on them for pimping themselves out for union busting detail. They were taking jobs that should have gone to pilots at AL threatened with redundancy. Well if there are any jobs lost at AEU then I guess thats just karma.

So as you sow, therefore shall you reap...

The Ska-bearbaiter

[Kirks gusset]

Ska,

I didn't say the AEU Pilots were in a Union, that is a conclusion you have drawn along with your others.

[45989]

Funny how only weeks ago neophytes here were suggesting Astrearse pilots woul be in AL by year end !!

Think "Gardening Leave" might be more likely yet again!
Deja Vu?

[Bearcat]

This is no time for show boating......as an onlooker when coyle went so did the goals posts re AEU it appears.....anyone care to guess how many millions AL threw at the AEU cause? more money down the drain whilst the 29th Jan looms for FR to come back into the fray re AL.