RYANAIR thoughts
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FarFarAway
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
intimidatepilot,
I've been in Ryanair long enough to see CC coming and going. I am aware of the money FR makes out of training the CC. I am also aware of the fact that if you don't do the job as they want you to do it, you're out. That's why such huge CC turnover in FR: because the majority don't see the reality of it, they are so disappointed, they find it very hard work and can't cope.
Do i agree with every decision the management makes? No, not at all. But it's a job, it pays the bills. Better have one than none. And I have my good and my bad days, but oddly enough for some, i enjoy it.
I would suspect it's pretty much the same elsewhere. I never, once, had been picked on by the management and be treated like a door mat. I go in, do my job, come back and pick up the money at the end of the month. Guess i'm good at what i do methinks...
Over to you gentlemen.
I've been in Ryanair long enough to see CC coming and going. I am aware of the money FR makes out of training the CC. I am also aware of the fact that if you don't do the job as they want you to do it, you're out. That's why such huge CC turnover in FR: because the majority don't see the reality of it, they are so disappointed, they find it very hard work and can't cope.
Do i agree with every decision the management makes? No, not at all. But it's a job, it pays the bills. Better have one than none. And I have my good and my bad days, but oddly enough for some, i enjoy it.
How does your conditions compare to someone in a similar role in a company, that respects it's employees and are willing to negotiate on terms and conditions.
Over to you gentlemen.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can I go back to the point about the EMA anti- BALPA ballot:
Whether you believe in BALPA or not, there should be a fair and anonymous vote for everyone to make their own choice so that majority rule can prevail.
If you don't want BALPA, then either vote no or don't vote at all at the subsequent ballot. But there should be a ballot to find out what the majority wants.
To not have the ballot in the first place is un-democratic.
Whether you believe in BALPA or not, there should be a fair and anonymous vote for everyone to make their own choice so that majority rule can prevail.
If you don't want BALPA, then either vote no or don't vote at all at the subsequent ballot. But there should be a ballot to find out what the majority wants.
To not have the ballot in the first place is un-democratic.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Abusing the Sky, with all my respect, I really don't think you should be part of this discussion. We all know how CC gets abused in RYR and believe me they if anybody need to get unionised! So for you to join into this discussion sounds to me like a little strange, almost as if you had some good advice from your superiors... May I remind you of why a captain got dismissed recently? Tell me how that all started? Please assure me you do not hold any kind of managerial position within your base? We all know the scam behind the training companies and my personnal opinion is that there is a great level of abuse with contracts from management. Nobody wants to lose anything here, starting with their job and base, but look at your situation now, what makes you think that RYR would have a problem to close a base with or without balpa?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Abusing the Sky. . . Yes, of course you're "good at what you do".
You turn up, work hard for some of the worst Ts and Cs around, you don't complain etc.
Do you honestly believe (m)any other airline pilots are on the same Ts and Cs as ryanair? Really?
Are you going to work at your current rate until you are 55-60? When you retire what pension will you get? What job protection do you have? What happens if your base closes, if your company want to relocate you, what package will you get? What private health , staff travel arrangements do you get? What happens if you get ill and are off long term?
You turn up, work hard for some of the worst Ts and Cs around, you don't complain etc.
Do you honestly believe (m)any other airline pilots are on the same Ts and Cs as ryanair? Really?
Are you going to work at your current rate until you are 55-60? When you retire what pension will you get? What job protection do you have? What happens if your base closes, if your company want to relocate you, what package will you get? What private health , staff travel arrangements do you get? What happens if you get ill and are off long term?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FarFarAway
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FreeBird and whatdoesthisbuttondo,
I am just a No1 and i can assure you that i wouldn't go to any management positions even if they were offered to me on a silver plate; the only time i get to be a "manager" is when i operate and i'm "managing" my crew.
I said it before that a) i have every right to post here as i too work for FR and i believe that BALPA will do nothing but jeopardize my job and b) i am not being "advised" by anyone, these are my opinions and, i'm sorry to come out of my "ladylike" zone, but opinions are like a$$holes: everyone has one. Is it that hard to believe that a tiny CC who knows she's just a number on the payroll has actually the "balls" to voice over her beliefs?
Isn't that a bit selfish gentlemen, it's all "pilots pilots pilots" and with all due respect you obviously have more training and more responsabilities, but how about the 150 odd CC in my base when the base closes, how about the engineers and so on?
The sensibile folks know exactly what MOL will do should the recognition go through, people have said it time and time again, and there will be NOTHING BALPA can do about it. It's going to happen based on a "commercial decision" and the BALPA buggers will sit back and pocket the (your!) membership money.
VLC had a very good performance as a base, yet MOL closed it after a tiff with the apt authorities. Don't you think the same will happen with the UK bases as i would class what's going on between BALPA and FR management a pure tiff??
Frankly gentlemen, your arrogance is astonishing. You want the Fairy BALPA to (maybe, depending on which side of the bed they got out that morning) back you up at the cost of everyone else losing their jobs. Nice one!
I'll cross that bridge when i come to it but thank you for your concern. i might decide next year that i want to be a housewife, who knows, but for the time being i'd like to stay where i am. If the base closes, it will only be because of the "unionasation".
I have a private pension fund that will see me through the years when i'm old and wrinkly. I have private healthcare which isn't cheap, but at least it's always there when i need it, unlike NHS waiting rooms where you'll be seen by someone 4 hrs later after you arrived.
If my opinion and "thoughts on FR" upset you then i apologize, but i won't stop posting because
. Is it because i'm telling the truth?
I am just a No1 and i can assure you that i wouldn't go to any management positions even if they were offered to me on a silver plate; the only time i get to be a "manager" is when i operate and i'm "managing" my crew.
I said it before that a) i have every right to post here as i too work for FR and i believe that BALPA will do nothing but jeopardize my job and b) i am not being "advised" by anyone, these are my opinions and, i'm sorry to come out of my "ladylike" zone, but opinions are like a$$holes: everyone has one. Is it that hard to believe that a tiny CC who knows she's just a number on the payroll has actually the "balls" to voice over her beliefs?
Isn't that a bit selfish gentlemen, it's all "pilots pilots pilots" and with all due respect you obviously have more training and more responsabilities, but how about the 150 odd CC in my base when the base closes, how about the engineers and so on?
The sensibile folks know exactly what MOL will do should the recognition go through, people have said it time and time again, and there will be NOTHING BALPA can do about it. It's going to happen based on a "commercial decision" and the BALPA buggers will sit back and pocket the (your!) membership money.
what makes you think that RYR would have a problem to close a base with or without balpa?
Frankly gentlemen, your arrogance is astonishing. You want the Fairy BALPA to (maybe, depending on which side of the bed they got out that morning) back you up at the cost of everyone else losing their jobs. Nice one!
Are you going to work at your current rate until you are 55-60? When you retire what pension will you get? What job protection do you have? What happens if your base closes, if your company want to relocate you, what package will you get? What private health , staff travel arrangements do you get? What happens if you get ill and are off long term?
I have a private pension fund that will see me through the years when i'm old and wrinkly. I have private healthcare which isn't cheap, but at least it's always there when i need it, unlike NHS waiting rooms where you'll be seen by someone 4 hrs later after you arrived.
If my opinion and "thoughts on FR" upset you then i apologize, but i won't stop posting because
I really don't think you should be part of this discussion
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FarFarAway
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for your very kind reply Vexed and i too respect the truth as you see it. It's nice when you can have a debate with someone who doesn't tell you to get off the thread because you don't "belong" here.
I totally agree that maybe, at some point, the company should be unionized. But not now, not by BALPA. In my view, BALPA will take your money and do bugger all when you need help, should you ever need it.
I read their T&C's and in very, VERY small print it says that they will only represent you if they think you can win the case. They won't even try to fight your corner.
If you want legal protection, at way lower cost than BALPA's, there are other places you could get it from. But then again it's all down to people's views on things and what they think it's best for them.
Ozymandias, with all due respect, are you a BALPA member? Do you still have the membership booklet they sent along with your membership card? Have a read through that and then tell me i'm (and so many other people are) wrong.
I totally agree that maybe, at some point, the company should be unionized. But not now, not by BALPA. In my view, BALPA will take your money and do bugger all when you need help, should you ever need it.
I read their T&C's and in very, VERY small print it says that they will only represent you if they think you can win the case. They won't even try to fight your corner.
If you want legal protection, at way lower cost than BALPA's, there are other places you could get it from. But then again it's all down to people's views on things and what they think it's best for them.
Ozymandias, with all due respect, are you a BALPA member? Do you still have the membership booklet they sent along with your membership card? Have a read through that and then tell me i'm (and so many other people are) wrong.
Last edited by Abusing_the_sky; 1st Jul 2009 at 21:09. Reason: just read Ozymandias post
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: west
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I read their T&C's and in very, VERY small print it says that they will only represent you if they think you can win the case. They won't even try to fight your corner.
Last edited by tocamak; 1st Jul 2009 at 22:34. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: where it's yellow not green
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't we just be left alone?!
Right.
Someone please tell me who asked BALPA to get involved? I have said it before on this site (and have been accused of being management for it) and I will repeat it: the vast majority of my colleagues are happy in their jobs. Yes, T's & C's are changing and pay is being reduced but they are elsewhere too.
I'll repeat it again actually, we're happy in our jobs at Ryanair.
We, as Ryanair pilots, have a very secure job. Sorry, I meant HAD a very secure job, until BALPA came along. Now there's no command upgrades for FO's. Now there's a base freeze. Brilliant.
MOL has said all along that even if this goes through he wont do anything BALPA want and he doesn't have to, all he has to do is listen. He'll listen to them say "please re-open stansted, luton, east midlands, bristol......." "any chance you could give the pilots back 5/4 they really liked that"
So what am I going to do as a Ryanair pilot? I'm going to vote no and hope that BALPA don't get in. Then I'm going to hope that they reverse the base freeze and command upgrade decisions.
Still no-one has commented to say how BALPA are going to change my life for the better and as far as I can see they wont.
Our Chief Exec. is an arsehole but I believe it when he makes threats. He has proven time and time again that he will cut off his nose to spite his face and if that means closing down UK bases and putting us all on 5/2 then I believe he'll do that.
If you think that Ryanair pilots are just being fat and dumb that's fine, but I can assure that happy should be added to that list. Just stop trying to get involved.
P.S. Captain J*** L***** and Terry - if you want to have a playground fight feel free to do so, just don't do it in my effing inbox.
Someone please tell me who asked BALPA to get involved? I have said it before on this site (and have been accused of being management for it) and I will repeat it: the vast majority of my colleagues are happy in their jobs. Yes, T's & C's are changing and pay is being reduced but they are elsewhere too.
I'll repeat it again actually, we're happy in our jobs at Ryanair.
We, as Ryanair pilots, have a very secure job. Sorry, I meant HAD a very secure job, until BALPA came along. Now there's no command upgrades for FO's. Now there's a base freeze. Brilliant.
MOL has said all along that even if this goes through he wont do anything BALPA want and he doesn't have to, all he has to do is listen. He'll listen to them say "please re-open stansted, luton, east midlands, bristol......." "any chance you could give the pilots back 5/4 they really liked that"
So what am I going to do as a Ryanair pilot? I'm going to vote no and hope that BALPA don't get in. Then I'm going to hope that they reverse the base freeze and command upgrade decisions.
Still no-one has commented to say how BALPA are going to change my life for the better and as far as I can see they wont.
Our Chief Exec. is an arsehole but I believe it when he makes threats. He has proven time and time again that he will cut off his nose to spite his face and if that means closing down UK bases and putting us all on 5/2 then I believe he'll do that.
If you think that Ryanair pilots are just being fat and dumb that's fine, but I can assure that happy should be added to that list. Just stop trying to get involved.
P.S. Captain J*** L***** and Terry - if you want to have a playground fight feel free to do so, just don't do it in my effing inbox.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Captain J*** L***** and Terry - if you want to have a playground fight feel free to do so, just don't do it in my effing inbox
Strikes me that the responses have been quite subdued when you consider that the BALPA email was quite scurrilous.
You behave like a nimby: let everyone else do the work and you'll take the benefit. If you don't want BALPA vote against it, you have the email address like the rest of us. Don't just mouth off about it here.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: where it's yellow not green
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I want an answer
You behave like a nimby: let everyone else do the work and you'll take the benefit.
That wasn't rhetorical by the way, I genuinely want to know what benefits there are and that can be told to me on repaweb.
It's clear what the problems will be.
I keep hearing "if you don't do something about it now your t's & c's will continue to be reduced" - but again, I genuinely want to know what will be done to prevent this. As far as I am aware, as I previously said, MOL doesn't need to take any action BALPA request, he just has to attend meetings. So how is that going to make an ounce of difference?
Those who are telling us to act - please answer the above. I don't mean that in any confrontational way, and I apologise if my previous post was interpreted in that manner (just finished lates and missed a bbq, pissed off already), I just want an answer.
Finally:
I get the same emails as you: where should the issue be ventilated? Here, or in house?
I don't want to see:
1. emails from people who I haven't given my address to
2. text messages from people who I haven't given my phone number to
3. mol's, pb's, dob's etc immature propoganda memos and posters
4. bgy as my base on next months roster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: england
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Attention Luton Pilots
Great posts Bonglebear.
Also news posted in Luton crew room:
LUTON PILOTS
"...[sic]... Following a meeting earlier today in Dublin, if Balpa are recognised at Luton. Luton as a base WILL close. (i repeat - LTN WILL CLOSE) Luton pilots WILL NOT be offered a position at another bases.
Any other UK base gaining recognition will result in the same outcome.
The following will apply elsewhere if Balpa recognition gained:
1) 5/2 6/3 roster
2) Base transfer freeze and no CU courses.
3) Loss of allowances...."
***LUTON PILOTS*** to ensure we still have a job please sign the proposal for pilots AGAINST Balpa recognition which is next to the whiteboard, LOEPS...etc. This is very serious - this is your livelihood we are talking about now.
Also news posted in Luton crew room:
LUTON PILOTS
"...[sic]... Following a meeting earlier today in Dublin, if Balpa are recognised at Luton. Luton as a base WILL close. (i repeat - LTN WILL CLOSE) Luton pilots WILL NOT be offered a position at another bases.
Any other UK base gaining recognition will result in the same outcome.
The following will apply elsewhere if Balpa recognition gained:
1) 5/2 6/3 roster
2) Base transfer freeze and no CU courses.
3) Loss of allowances...."
***LUTON PILOTS*** to ensure we still have a job please sign the proposal for pilots AGAINST Balpa recognition which is next to the whiteboard, LOEPS...etc. This is very serious - this is your livelihood we are talking about now.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A the Sky......
In my opinion your posts are very valid to this discussion. It's a pity your CC friends don't post as well. Would be nice to hear some of their experiences. Find it hard to believe they were good enough to be released after line training and then after one year of successfully doing their duties in a safe manner, only to be replaced by someone with less exp...you know the truth, so don't pretend.
Reading between the the lines you honestly say how things are. And I think your posts, like all the intimidation from the w house are actually improving the possibility of a positive outcome from the future democratic elections.
If you are not happy - You could always start your own airline - as suggested by a previous poster.
Hope you are enjoying this warm weather we are having.
Who knows where we'll be next year. Maybe with BALPA we might have a say.
In my opinion your posts are very valid to this discussion. It's a pity your CC friends don't post as well. Would be nice to hear some of their experiences. Find it hard to believe they were good enough to be released after line training and then after one year of successfully doing their duties in a safe manner, only to be replaced by someone with less exp...you know the truth, so don't pretend.
Reading between the the lines you honestly say how things are. And I think your posts, like all the intimidation from the w house are actually improving the possibility of a positive outcome from the future democratic elections.
If you are not happy - You could always start your own airline - as suggested by a previous poster.
Hope you are enjoying this warm weather we are having.
Who knows where we'll be next year. Maybe with BALPA we might have a say.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: monaco
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also news posted in Luton crew room:
LUTON PILOTS
"...[sic]... Following a meeting earlier today in Dublin, if Balpa are recognised at Luton. Luton as a base WILL close. (i repeat - LTN WILL CLOSE) Luton pilots WILL NOT be offered a position at another bases.
Any other UK base gaining recognition will result in the same outcome.
The following will apply elsewhere if Balpa recognition gained:
1) 5/2 6/3 roster
2) Base transfer freeze and no CU courses.
3) Loss of allowances...."
LUTON PILOTS
"...[sic]... Following a meeting earlier today in Dublin, if Balpa are recognised at Luton. Luton as a base WILL close. (i repeat - LTN WILL CLOSE) Luton pilots WILL NOT be offered a position at another bases.
Any other UK base gaining recognition will result in the same outcome.
The following will apply elsewhere if Balpa recognition gained:
1) 5/2 6/3 roster
2) Base transfer freeze and no CU courses.
3) Loss of allowances...."
If it follows an official meeting it will be surely signed by those who promulgated it and would be of interest to all viewers be it UK based or not.
During WWII there were countries which cowardly opened their doors to the Nazis in fear of retaliation and those which fought back; if today german is not Europe's official language we have to be grateful to the latter ones.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: right behind you
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great to see that this debate is drawing the management snakes out from under their stones.
commandb thanks for posting the latest ryanair managements threats and intimidation attempt.how pathetic to see that some pilots still cannot see the **** they are in,working at ryanair.along with the management stooges and plants on here.i have yet to see why i would not vote for BALPA recognition.This is the pilots of ryanairs' chance and we are going to make sure it gets through.
danny the ltn list has been recorded and forwarded to the interested bodies.
commandb thanks for posting the latest ryanair managements threats and intimidation attempt.how pathetic to see that some pilots still cannot see the **** they are in,working at ryanair.along with the management stooges and plants on here.i have yet to see why i would not vote for BALPA recognition.This is the pilots of ryanairs' chance and we are going to make sure it gets through.
danny the ltn list has been recorded and forwarded to the interested bodies.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't believe Ryanair actually threaten to close a base where BALPA is recognised and not give the crews a job anywhere else. I was genuinely shocked to read that.
How low have your expectations fallen if any of you here think that's acceptable.
Surely it must only be the managers on here pretending to be pilots that can think that's O.K.
How low have your expectations fallen if any of you here think that's acceptable.
Surely it must only be the managers on here pretending to be pilots that can think that's O.K.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote from The Real Slim Shady :-
And what, pray tell, do you think the Ryanair "Recognition Roulette" communication was ?
At least BALPA have the guts to put a name at the bottom of their written communications !
PS Don't feed the trolls !
PPS Re the LTN "news" , sounds like a load of unsubstantiated b*****ks to me, probably spread in panic by Anti union supporters or just another union busting technique. Very much doubt it's authenticity.
"Strikes me that the responses have been quite subdued when you consider that the BALPA email was quite scurrilous."
At least BALPA have the guts to put a name at the bottom of their written communications !
PS Don't feed the trolls !
PPS Re the LTN "news" , sounds like a load of unsubstantiated b*****ks to me, probably spread in panic by Anti union supporters or just another union busting technique. Very much doubt it's authenticity.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: AROUND
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think your boss is a complete Arse and I really do wish you guys/gals all the best! Do not let this excuse for a human being degrade you anymore. I am a Balpa member with another Loco and I only have to look at Ryanair to see what life would be like if we never had a voice!