end of TRSS at easyjet
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end of TRSS at easyjet
Do you think easyjet will reopen their TRSS scheme or will the pay to fly scheme via CTC flexicrew will be the only way to join (for 6 months only...) the orange company?
What are the next bases to be lunched?
What are the next bases to be lunched?
As long as the market remains as it is at the moment I don't see any possibility in TRSS entries. CTC flexi crews suit EZY at the moment and no pilots elsewhere with a fulltime job will be stupid enough to join the company for a temporary job during the summer.
However I am certain when the market has picked up in a couple of years that everything will go back to normal again also TRSS and DEP/DEC.
However I am certain when the market has picked up in a couple of years that everything will go back to normal again also TRSS and DEP/DEC.
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eJ is talking about the "biggest recession since the 1920th" and there are quite a few pilots out there which would do almost everything to fly an A 319. I personally doubt that the conditions for new joiners will improve soon. Or ever.
Cokeman you are faster and more optimistic - is it Coke versus Augustiner?
Cokeman you are faster and more optimistic - is it Coke versus Augustiner?
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I would beg to differ. It is inconceivable to me that at any point in the foreseeable future easyJet will return to DECs. They have been a necessary evil which nearly every pilot at easyJet would recognise. Nonetheless, with approaching 300 pilots in the hunt for a command at the moment and less than 50 commands this year (half of which will be temporary), there can be no justification any time soon for DECs.
TRSS was merely a reflection of market forces - people wanted to come to easyJet without significant medium/heavy jet experience and were willing to be paid less for the privelege. It is simply supply and demand. Right now there is a huge supply of cheap, high-quality but low-houred pilots to take advantage of - therefore easyJet does! If we have to take experienced type-rated pilots we will do so and pay the market rate. Right now we do not need to and therefore we stuff young CTC cadets with temporary contracts before kicking them out into a cold winter. It is a hard world right now and easyJet is playing hard ball. Disappointing, but right now they hold all the aces.
TRSS was merely a reflection of market forces - people wanted to come to easyJet without significant medium/heavy jet experience and were willing to be paid less for the privelege. It is simply supply and demand. Right now there is a huge supply of cheap, high-quality but low-houred pilots to take advantage of - therefore easyJet does! If we have to take experienced type-rated pilots we will do so and pay the market rate. Right now we do not need to and therefore we stuff young CTC cadets with temporary contracts before kicking them out into a cold winter. It is a hard world right now and easyJet is playing hard ball. Disappointing, but right now they hold all the aces.
I'm not in any way saying that DEC and TRSS are coming soon. Just pointing out that when everythings comes to normal again (god knows when) with a normal 15% expansion as seen in 2006/07 then we will automatically come back to TRSS, DEC, DEP.
NSF you of all know I am not hoping to see any DEC joining the company soon
NSF you of all know I am not hoping to see any DEC joining the company soon
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Direct entry captains is ****... and flexi CTC cadets paying for flying for peanuts during 6 months only before being fired and replaced by another one is even more ****.
No one should accept that. Easyjet is getting really bad because you guys accept ****.
You think you are not concerned about this problem so you let it go, but in the meantime, your managers are making a low cost pilots airline, and it will never improve, because in aviation nothing improves, it only get worse year after year.
The economy is struggling a lot at the moment and will get better in the future, but then, the fuel cost will rise again like hell, so your managers will keep your ****ty conditions.
You should STOP any Cadet CTC flexi crew scheme right now and let TRSS scheme only, and promot your own SFO instead of taking direct entry captains.
But should I saddly understand you and Balpa have no power to control such a situation
No one should accept that. Easyjet is getting really bad because you guys accept ****.
You think you are not concerned about this problem so you let it go, but in the meantime, your managers are making a low cost pilots airline, and it will never improve, because in aviation nothing improves, it only get worse year after year.
The economy is struggling a lot at the moment and will get better in the future, but then, the fuel cost will rise again like hell, so your managers will keep your ****ty conditions.
You should STOP any Cadet CTC flexi crew scheme right now and let TRSS scheme only, and promot your own SFO instead of taking direct entry captains.
But should I saddly understand you and Balpa have no power to control such a situation
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I agree FlexiCrew is a dreadful scheme but wind check, what on Earth are you talking about?
How do CTC cadets pay for their line flying or type rating?
Who are you talking to? Why is the TRSS scheme so much better then - both take a reduced payscale? FlexiCrew is crap but it works for EasyJet, of course it does......for the moment - until they have an accident because so many of their pilots are part time - FOs and Captains alike.
Out of interest, are the current FlexiCrew cadets going to be taken back on next year ahead of fresh cadets? Does anyone have an idea? Regardless of the answer, one group of people at CTC -line trained or hold-pooled, are going to be dumped in the sh1t in a difficult time. So don't worry wind check all those 'nasty' CTC cadets you dislike so much are going to be buggered one way or another. The disruption to their careers and lives with be disastrous.
and flexi CTC cadets paying for flying for peanuts during 6 months only before being fired and replaced by another one is even more ****.
No one should accept that. Easyjet is getting really bad because you guys accept ****
No one should accept that. Easyjet is getting really bad because you guys accept ****
You should STOP any Cadet CTC flexi crew scheme right now and let TRSS scheme only
Out of interest, are the current FlexiCrew cadets going to be taken back on next year ahead of fresh cadets? Does anyone have an idea? Regardless of the answer, one group of people at CTC -line trained or hold-pooled, are going to be dumped in the sh1t in a difficult time. So don't worry wind check all those 'nasty' CTC cadets you dislike so much are going to be buggered one way or another. The disruption to their careers and lives with be disastrous.
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Poor treatment for cadets
CTC cadets pay all the way - those 6 months they work for eJ they get back effectively £1000 per month of their own money!
Total cost to them is around £100,000 to get CPL/IR frozen ATPL and A319 type rating. They get no job g-tee after 6 months but can go back to working in a hotel/bar/checkout job while they wait for a call for another 6 month deal maybe with another LoCo airline.......
Some of the 22 laid off last year will go back to eJ, others have managed to get Airbus work abroad but it's very tough for all.
Total cost to them is around £100,000 to get CPL/IR frozen ATPL and A319 type rating. They get no job g-tee after 6 months but can go back to working in a hotel/bar/checkout job while they wait for a call for another 6 month deal maybe with another LoCo airline.......
Some of the 22 laid off last year will go back to eJ, others have managed to get Airbus work abroad but it's very tough for all.
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angelorange you're wrong, and clearly an idiot.
CTC course cost was £65,000, actually cheaper then both Oxford and FTE.
At the end of our training we are free to apply to anyone we like, if we happened to get placed with easy, they pay us £1k a month for 6 months. At no point are we paying to fly.
When I started with CTC in 2007 I didn't join thinking "awesome, in about 2 years I might get to fly for easyJet for a couple of months and then get dumped for the winter".
FlexiCrew came in while I was training and unfortunately due to the current state of the world, it's the only thing going. It's better then nothing.
And windcheck, why are you so depserate to work for a company that you have publically called **** sereveral times?
CTC course cost was £65,000, actually cheaper then both Oxford and FTE.
At the end of our training we are free to apply to anyone we like, if we happened to get placed with easy, they pay us £1k a month for 6 months. At no point are we paying to fly.
When I started with CTC in 2007 I didn't join thinking "awesome, in about 2 years I might get to fly for easyJet for a couple of months and then get dumped for the winter".
FlexiCrew came in while I was training and unfortunately due to the current state of the world, it's the only thing going. It's better then nothing.
And windcheck, why are you so depserate to work for a company that you have publically called **** sereveral times?
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Calm down EZYramper.
"they pay us £1k a month for 6 months. At no point are we paying to fly."
It's actually your own money coming back to you, hence the lack of NI/Income Tax etc etc etc
easyJet are *not* paying you, nor are you ever an employee of theirs.
Instead of "paying to fly" you're just doing the job for free, hardly much difference is there?
The only difference in the past was the guaranteed job at the end, thus people overlooked that you were working for free. Now there is no guaranteed job, you are now just getting the type rating and line flying included in the £69k you pay up front.
"they pay us £1k a month for 6 months. At no point are we paying to fly."
It's actually your own money coming back to you, hence the lack of NI/Income Tax etc etc etc
easyJet are *not* paying you, nor are you ever an employee of theirs.
Instead of "paying to fly" you're just doing the job for free, hardly much difference is there?
The only difference in the past was the guaranteed job at the end, thus people overlooked that you were working for free. Now there is no guaranteed job, you are now just getting the type rating and line flying included in the £69k you pay up front.
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angelorange you're wrong, and clearly an idiot.
So you are in the holdpool now waiting for a TR I take it if you started back in 2007? How's that going for you? Any news?
It was £65K, it's now about £77K with alot less included.
Then there is the fact that your pay is on a reduced scale......who is that costing? It can be included in the 'cost'.
At the end of our training we are free to apply to anyone we like
FlexiCrew came in while I was training and unfortunately due to the current state of the world, it's the only thing going. It's better then nothing.
angelorange you're wrong, and clearly an idiot.
What's with the "you're clearly an idiot" comment? Far be it from me to defend someone else's battles, but it's pretty ironic given that you've just called him(her?) that having contradicted something that's true!
they pay us £1k a month for 6 months. At no point are we paying to fly.
At the end of our training we are free to apply to anyone we like
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The course cost was £60k plus just under £5k for foundation course. Interest isn't part of the cost - you don't have to take the loan, neither are living costs. Saying that we paid £100k for training and a type rating is just wrong.
My point is that you can go to any other flight school and pay more for basic training and then have them turf you out with not even a thank you.
If I come away from training with nothing more then a fATPL then I've not gained any less then the hundreds of other wannabes who come out of Oxford/FTE/Cabair every year.
Sorry for the idiot comment, but you're trying to make us out to be the evil people. It wasn't CTC cadets who came up with the FlexiCrew idea, nor did we cause this downturn. It's either flexicrew or apply to other airlines (and get dropped from the hold pool) and as you rightly said, not even get an acknowledement.
The guy is whining about them not doing TRSS anymore. TRSS is just another way for easy to cut costs and get new guys to pay for their training, and then moaning at us for doing the same thing.
And maybe not the only thing going, but definitely one of the few for wannabes.
My point is that you can go to any other flight school and pay more for basic training and then have them turf you out with not even a thank you.
If I come away from training with nothing more then a fATPL then I've not gained any less then the hundreds of other wannabes who come out of Oxford/FTE/Cabair every year.
Sorry for the idiot comment, but you're trying to make us out to be the evil people. It wasn't CTC cadets who came up with the FlexiCrew idea, nor did we cause this downturn. It's either flexicrew or apply to other airlines (and get dropped from the hold pool) and as you rightly said, not even get an acknowledement.
The guy is whining about them not doing TRSS anymore. TRSS is just another way for easy to cut costs and get new guys to pay for their training, and then moaning at us for doing the same thing.
And maybe not the only thing going, but definitely one of the few for wannabes.
Last edited by EZYramper; 31st May 2009 at 18:56.
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No FlexiCrew isn't the fault of the cadets, it is the only way CTC can generate cash flow in the short term. But in CTCs short-termism they have probably removed the last decent chance of becoming an airline pilot in this country. TRSS possibly wont be back if CTC can survive these difficult economic times - CTC have an ever increasing holdpool of people who will no doubt be more than desperate enough for the 6 months work on offer each year. You can't blame EasyJet though, it makes perfect economic sense for them. Well done CTC
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Ok, total paid out (and wages not taken whilst working full time for EZY):
Bond: £69,000
Foundation: £4,000
8 months wages of a EZY F/O: £30,000
Total out so far: £103,000
Less: 6 months of £1,000 + £500 for the type rating which is £6,500
This leaves £96,500.
Not including interest, living expenses or lost earnings whilst doing the course.
QED.
Bond: £69,000
Foundation: £4,000
8 months wages of a EZY F/O: £30,000
Total out so far: £103,000
Less: 6 months of £1,000 + £500 for the type rating which is £6,500
This leaves £96,500.
Not including interest, living expenses or lost earnings whilst doing the course.
QED.
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"No FlexiCrew isn't the fault of the cadets, it is the only way CTC can generate cash flow in the short term. But in CTCs short-termism they have probably removed the last decent chance of becoming an airline pilot in this country. TRSS possibly wont be back if CTC can survive these difficult economic times - CTC have an ever increasing holdpool of people who will no doubt be more than desperate enough for the 6 months work on offer each year. You can't blame EasyJet though, it makes perfect economic sense for them. Well done CTC"
TheBeak, I personally don't think that CTC came up with the FlexiCrew scheme completely out of thin air. I was under the impression that easyJet wanted a way to reduce crew costs by having a winter crew base with contract summer pilots. CTC, being their training organisation, implemented this for them. The inital idea seems to lie with easy'.
I'm not trying to turn easyJet into the bad guy, they are just trying to survive in a horrendous environment. No one wants pilots being laid off.
jb5000,
a lot of those cost will be incurred by anyone doing training anywhere, its a fact of life that if you do a full time course you're going to lose potential wages and if you do go integrated you're going to fork out about 60k, its not specific to people who trainined with CTC and go on to be Flexicrew.
The loss of 8 months wages can't really be counted, if its not even an option, then its not a loss.
Also, costs now aren't what I or any FlexiCrew cadets paid so its a bit irrelevent how much selection currently is.
"TheBeak, I personally don't think that CTC came up with the FlexiCrew scheme completely out of thin air. I was under the impression that easyJet wanted a way to reduce crew costs by having a winter crew base with contract summer pilots. CTC, being their training organisation, implemented this for them. The inital idea seems to lie with easy'.
I'm not trying to turn easyJet into the bad guy, they are just trying to survive in a horrendous environment. No one wants pilots being laid off.
jb5000,
a lot of those cost will be incurred by anyone doing training anywhere, its a fact of life that if you do a full time course you're going to lose potential wages and if you do go integrated you're going to fork out about 60k, its not specific to people who trainined with CTC and go on to be Flexicrew.
The loss of 8 months wages can't really be counted, if its not even an option, then its not a loss.
Also, costs now aren't what I or any FlexiCrew cadets paid so its a bit irrelevent how much selection currently is.
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If you fly for EasyJet as a captain then you DO sit next to a guy or girl who recieves one grand a month for flying an orange minibus. And that grand is not paid by Easyjet, it is paid by CTC.
