Lufthansa Italia Recruiting
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ricky, its not really like that.
First, LH could put some a/c to MXP and start flying routes without creating LHITA, like they are doing now, no ital. AOC is needed.
And SEA would support this in the same way, as MXP is half empty and they are happy about any new flight.
Second they dont really create a neew company, they still sell the tickets as LH, with the name, the colour etc, its like buying a Mercedes produced by FIAT.
The 6 a/c have been taken from the LH fleet (GermanWings), plus at the moment there are no upgrades in LH and no pilots are hired in LH.
This is not about the standarts of LH, this is about contracts between LH and the union and its against the agreement they have with the union.
If they would create LHITA as a own company, flying the routes as LHITA and selling tickets as LHITA and not on the LH website, it would be different.
Sell LH, use LH rules and standarts.
But, for both sides LH and union, get you problems solved, now they are just playing unfair and the italian pilots are the victims.
The situation is already difficult in Italy, so we dont need LH to make it worse.
First, LH could put some a/c to MXP and start flying routes without creating LHITA, like they are doing now, no ital. AOC is needed.
And SEA would support this in the same way, as MXP is half empty and they are happy about any new flight.
Second they dont really create a neew company, they still sell the tickets as LH, with the name, the colour etc, its like buying a Mercedes produced by FIAT.
The 6 a/c have been taken from the LH fleet (GermanWings), plus at the moment there are no upgrades in LH and no pilots are hired in LH.
This is not about the standarts of LH, this is about contracts between LH and the union and its against the agreement they have with the union.
If they would create LHITA as a own company, flying the routes as LHITA and selling tickets as LHITA and not on the LH website, it would be different.
Sell LH, use LH rules and standarts.
But, for both sides LH and union, get you problems solved, now they are just playing unfair and the italian pilots are the victims.
The situation is already difficult in Italy, so we dont need LH to make it worse.
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warmkitter, there is just one thing about "our jobs" "your jobs" you should be aware of, if LH gets an AOC for LHITA, which they would need to fly outside of the EU or the OpenSky, like Moscow, they have to hire pilots for LHITA on italian contracts and the pilots have to be registered as pilots in italy.
So to get "your job" you have to resign from LH and sign a contract of LHITA.
So to get "your job" you have to resign from LH and sign a contract of LHITA.
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sorry EAM,
it seems to me that you are contraddicting yourself.
In one post you say that LH do not need to create a new company LH Italia.
In the next post you say that they need an italian AOC to operate certain routes if the expansion plan goes that way.
I believe that if LH management wants an italian AOC there must be some operational reason behind it, like those you just mentioned.
I heard that LH is grounding quite a few aircraft in Germany, 25 or so, this winter.
I believe that the creation of LH Italia will help LH to transfer some of the extra capacity into the Italian market, to avoid having an extra 6 a/c on the ground in Germany.
So LH Italia is not actually taking any active aircraft from LH mainline, but it is simply helping to transfer some extra capacity to a different market.
If there is no job or salary cut in the LH group I cannot see this as stealing jobs. Or do you actually believe that if LH Italia would have not been created the situation in LH mainline would be better, with more promotions and job openings?
If LH wants to enter the Italian market with an Italian AOC, they do need to be an equal opportunity employer by EU law. I do not believe that restricting the applications to German-speakers only would be welcome by the local government, or by the Italian CAA.
As I said before, I totally agree that the LH pilots should fight for those jobs created by their company if there is any redundancies or salary cuts planned for them.
Otherwise, if they are just looking to get those jobs because the LH mainline is suffering of over-capacity, thus reducing the job prospect for new cadets and not promoting first officers, I would not agree with them.
Ricky
it seems to me that you are contraddicting yourself.
In one post you say that LH do not need to create a new company LH Italia.
In the next post you say that they need an italian AOC to operate certain routes if the expansion plan goes that way.
I believe that if LH management wants an italian AOC there must be some operational reason behind it, like those you just mentioned.
I heard that LH is grounding quite a few aircraft in Germany, 25 or so, this winter.
I believe that the creation of LH Italia will help LH to transfer some of the extra capacity into the Italian market, to avoid having an extra 6 a/c on the ground in Germany.
So LH Italia is not actually taking any active aircraft from LH mainline, but it is simply helping to transfer some extra capacity to a different market.
If there is no job or salary cut in the LH group I cannot see this as stealing jobs. Or do you actually believe that if LH Italia would have not been created the situation in LH mainline would be better, with more promotions and job openings?
If LH wants to enter the Italian market with an Italian AOC, they do need to be an equal opportunity employer by EU law. I do not believe that restricting the applications to German-speakers only would be welcome by the local government, or by the Italian CAA.
As I said before, I totally agree that the LH pilots should fight for those jobs created by their company if there is any redundancies or salary cuts planned for them.
Otherwise, if they are just looking to get those jobs because the LH mainline is suffering of over-capacity, thus reducing the job prospect for new cadets and not promoting first officers, I would not agree with them.
Ricky
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ricky, sorry if I didnt make it clear, but at present LH does not need an italian AOC for the present network, not even for flights to the US they would need an ital. AOC.
But as they asked for the AOC, because they might plan other routs, they would need to employ pilots on an ital. contract.
But to answer you question, yes it will change when they employ the pilots on LHITA, just figure it out by yourself, 6 a/c in MXP are presently operated by LH crews, in the future these a/c should be operated by LHITA crews, so 6 a/c less for the LH pilots, less CPTs needed, less F/Os needed.
But as they asked for the AOC, because they might plan other routs, they would need to employ pilots on an ital. contract.
But to answer you question, yes it will change when they employ the pilots on LHITA, just figure it out by yourself, 6 a/c in MXP are presently operated by LH crews, in the future these a/c should be operated by LHITA crews, so 6 a/c less for the LH pilots, less CPTs needed, less F/Os needed.
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Yes, I understand that... my point is different: the underlying problem for LH being overcrewed is an excess capacity in LH mainline (exactly as any other carrier in the world), LH Italia is not going to affect the crew levels for Deutsche LH itself, but it would be a good opportunity for LH pilots to smooth their over-capacity problem.
for example: if LH is going to ground 25 a/c this winter (+ 6 a/c to LHI), I believe that without LH Italia it would ground 31 a/c, if you see what I mean.
So for LH management this is a great chance to use some extra capacity in the Italian market, and for LH pilots a good way to work more, employ more people or promote few captains.
The problem is that I do believe that no matter what LH is allowed to do with their own AOC, they need to provide equal opportunity in Italy otherwise the italian governement could oppose their expansion in MXP.
I work for easyJet and in my company we have many similar cases, despite we have an european AOC we were forced to employ french speaking cabin crew for our bases in CDG, ORY, LYS.
At the end of the day without government and authorities approval might be very hard for LH to go ahead with their italian subsidiary.
And if LH Italia project would be stopped, I do not think LH pilots would be any better off.
I hope my point is clearer now.
Ricky
for example: if LH is going to ground 25 a/c this winter (+ 6 a/c to LHI), I believe that without LH Italia it would ground 31 a/c, if you see what I mean.
So for LH management this is a great chance to use some extra capacity in the Italian market, and for LH pilots a good way to work more, employ more people or promote few captains.
The problem is that I do believe that no matter what LH is allowed to do with their own AOC, they need to provide equal opportunity in Italy otherwise the italian governement could oppose their expansion in MXP.
I work for easyJet and in my company we have many similar cases, despite we have an european AOC we were forced to employ french speaking cabin crew for our bases in CDG, ORY, LYS.
At the end of the day without government and authorities approval might be very hard for LH to go ahead with their italian subsidiary.
And if LH Italia project would be stopped, I do not think LH pilots would be any better off.
I hope my point is clearer now.
Ricky
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Ricky
the only clear point is that you have no clue at all...
From your standpoint you can not have the necessary background knowledge and if you dont bother even to read the previous post then not even a godfather can help you.
Its absolutely rubbish, if you say that LHITA is not affecting crewlevels at mainline!
Our management shifts the shortrange traffic away from mainline and let it be flown where ever its done cheaper.
I did my first lineflight 10 years ago on the D-AILT, that plane went to German wings and is now operated by LHITA.
On this particular A/C you can see where our upgrades go. Away, gone, bye bye.... No shortrange planes, no upgrades. That should be so easy figure out that everybody understands...
We dont want that LHITA projekt is stopped, but done at the same base the mainline is done. If its not a cheap italian subsidiary, but a well paid job it will be a win/win for all the pilots.
First of all its a sign for the management that outflagging will not be the way to cut crewcosts and ofcourse all crews operating for LHITA will be paid equally good as the mainline.
There is no overcrew in LH mainline, we are doing about 20% overhours every month. The problem is that our careeroptions are vanishing away.
cheers
the only clear point is that you have no clue at all...
From your standpoint you can not have the necessary background knowledge and if you dont bother even to read the previous post then not even a godfather can help you.
Its absolutely rubbish, if you say that LHITA is not affecting crewlevels at mainline!
Our management shifts the shortrange traffic away from mainline and let it be flown where ever its done cheaper.
I did my first lineflight 10 years ago on the D-AILT, that plane went to German wings and is now operated by LHITA.
On this particular A/C you can see where our upgrades go. Away, gone, bye bye.... No shortrange planes, no upgrades. That should be so easy figure out that everybody understands...
We dont want that LHITA projekt is stopped, but done at the same base the mainline is done. If its not a cheap italian subsidiary, but a well paid job it will be a win/win for all the pilots.
First of all its a sign for the management that outflagging will not be the way to cut crewcosts and ofcourse all crews operating for LHITA will be paid equally good as the mainline.
There is no overcrew in LH mainline, we are doing about 20% overhours every month. The problem is that our careeroptions are vanishing away.
cheers
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warmkiter, this is what you write:
I did my first lineflight 10 years ago on the D-AILT, that plane went to German wings and is now operated by LHITA.
On this particular A/C you can see where our upgrades go. Away, gone, bye bye.... No shortrange planes, no upgrades. That should be so easy figure out that everybody understands...
I believed I was talking with a professionist but it seems you lack some basic understanding in this business.
The company you are working for is leaving 25+ planes on the ground this winter (you know better than me the exact figure) because THEY DO NOT NEED THEM flying for LH.... you can call it over-capacity, credit crunch, how the hell you like....but no sectors flown means no crew requirement!!!!
An aeroplane on the ground needs as many pilot as an aeroplane sold to Africa = zero!!!
No shortrange planes - no upgrade.
Are you trying to say that the reason you are not getting upgrades is because you haven't got enough aeroplanes?
or maybe because they are being flown by cheaper pilots like:
Germanwings- same contract as LH , I understand
LH Italia - you don't even know what the contract is like because there is none.
It would be more honest from you to say that you have no idea how long it will take for you to get command, you are getting quite frustrated about that and you do not want to miss this LH Italia opportunity to speed things up.
I did my first lineflight 10 years ago on the D-AILT, that plane went to German wings and is now operated by LHITA.
On this particular A/C you can see where our upgrades go. Away, gone, bye bye.... No shortrange planes, no upgrades. That should be so easy figure out that everybody understands...
I believed I was talking with a professionist but it seems you lack some basic understanding in this business.
The company you are working for is leaving 25+ planes on the ground this winter (you know better than me the exact figure) because THEY DO NOT NEED THEM flying for LH.... you can call it over-capacity, credit crunch, how the hell you like....but no sectors flown means no crew requirement!!!!
An aeroplane on the ground needs as many pilot as an aeroplane sold to Africa = zero!!!
No shortrange planes - no upgrade.
Are you trying to say that the reason you are not getting upgrades is because you haven't got enough aeroplanes?
or maybe because they are being flown by cheaper pilots like:
Germanwings- same contract as LH , I understand
LH Italia - you don't even know what the contract is like because there is none.
It would be more honest from you to say that you have no idea how long it will take for you to get command, you are getting quite frustrated about that and you do not want to miss this LH Italia opportunity to speed things up.
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And by the way... "Just remember, that most companies in italy pay much better than LH does,
so LHITA cant just pay peanuts, they have to pay almost the same like LH does."
And another good point to stop this BS management toy, called LHITA.
They think to operate with lesser costs than us KTV pilots. But what will happen if only italian pilots will steer those LHITA ships. With their striking mentallity???
Correct, they will strike forever to get the same payscheme.
What a big yoke this thing has become.
Good idea to spread the word of a recruitment ban.
so LHITA cant just pay peanuts, they have to pay almost the same like LH does."
And another good point to stop this BS management toy, called LHITA.
They think to operate with lesser costs than us KTV pilots. But what will happen if only italian pilots will steer those LHITA ships. With their striking mentallity???
Correct, they will strike forever to get the same payscheme.
What a big yoke this thing has become.
Good idea to spread the word of a recruitment ban.
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to ricky
how long do you think it takes to start a projekt like LHITA? Was it two weeks ago when LH reduced capacities the first time?
The planning of this projekt started years before, in a time where reduktion of mainline was no issue. Creditcrunch was not even a remote nightmare and bying AZ was discussed seriously.
Dont believe what management says, because they will always make the actual situation work in their arguments. You are right now like a puppet repeating some biz-mantras. This is not the Big Picture!
Business low - Great opportunity to use surplus capasities in a vacuum of competition in Italy
Business high - Great opportunity to gain influence in a growing market in Italy
You look this situation through a pinpoint hole and therefore see it very limited. Trust me, its way more complicated than you imagine. Its not about LHITA, the fire has started burning in so many different spots long time ago. This is very typical for our management. They generate a huge backlock of good governance, distrust and vaporise companyidentity and wonder later why the pilots strike.
In our companythere is right now a tremendous pressure to negotiate new conditions. Our management will need a lot of mass for trade ins in the negotiations. "Trade ins" means that all the Germanwings, Condor, Aerologic and LHITA positions may be sacrified later for a different cause.
One thing is for sure, all pilots involved in these politics will be just chessfigures in a game. Ask any external pilot been screened for a position in these new companies. They never know what is really going on. The poorest possible communication from a company claiming industry leadership.
Why dont we have upgrades within our contract? LH management is constantly breaking existing agreements like the 70seater rule. (You sure know what that is, dont you?) Its not that we have a lack of aeroplanes, they are just flown by somebody else.
if you try to explain the world to guys who are right in the middle of a battle, you have to wake up really early in the morning and GET INFORMED!
Good luck and good night
The planning of this projekt started years before, in a time where reduktion of mainline was no issue. Creditcrunch was not even a remote nightmare and bying AZ was discussed seriously. Dont believe what management says, because they will always make the actual situation work in their arguments. You are right now like a puppet repeating some biz-mantras. This is not the Big Picture!
Business low - Great opportunity to use surplus capasities in a vacuum of competition in Italy
Business high - Great opportunity to gain influence in a growing market in Italy
You look this situation through a pinpoint hole and therefore see it very limited. Trust me, its way more complicated than you imagine. Its not about LHITA, the fire has started burning in so many different spots long time ago. This is very typical for our management. They generate a huge backlock of good governance, distrust and vaporise companyidentity and wonder later why the pilots strike.
In our companythere is right now a tremendous pressure to negotiate new conditions. Our management will need a lot of mass for trade ins in the negotiations. "Trade ins" means that all the Germanwings, Condor, Aerologic and LHITA positions may be sacrified later for a different cause.
One thing is for sure, all pilots involved in these politics will be just chessfigures in a game. Ask any external pilot been screened for a position in these new companies. They never know what is really going on. The poorest possible communication from a company claiming industry leadership.
Why dont we have upgrades within our contract? LH management is constantly breaking existing agreements like the 70seater rule. (You sure know what that is, dont you?) Its not that we have a lack of aeroplanes, they are just flown by somebody else.
if you try to explain the world to guys who are right in the middle of a battle, you have to wake up really early in the morning and GET INFORMED!
Good luck and good night
Last edited by warmkiter; 7th Jul 2009 at 08:42.
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Its funny, or better: rudiculous and outrageous to see warmkitter's reply to serious posts, like:
to Ricky
to Dirk85
to myself
As I wrote in one of my previous posts. Thump UP or DOWN is done by the psychologist (... if you fit in the LH-drawer or not...)
And obviously warmkitter is "a product" of this LH-psycholgical-screening. I am almost shure he PASSED the pschological test.
The way he tries to ban other opinions and verbally harrases other people opinions, gives a picture how they deal within LH with someone not fitting in the LH-mainstream thinking.
Never ever in pprune I saw somone doing this kind of replys like warmkitter did and is still doing
Suggest to remove his posts as they are very, very close of having inhuman contents
to Ricky
the only clear point is that you have no clue at all...
1. you have no clue about the biz
The only clueless here is you A321!
And obviously warmkitter is "a product" of this LH-psycholgical-screening. I am almost shure he PASSED the pschological test.
The way he tries to ban other opinions and verbally harrases other people opinions, gives a picture how they deal within LH with someone not fitting in the LH-mainstream thinking.
Never ever in pprune I saw somone doing this kind of replys like warmkitter did and is still doing
Suggest to remove his posts as they are very, very close of having inhuman contents
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don't get me wrong, warmkiter...
I whish you all the best in your battle to secure your jobs and conditions if they are going to be eroded, all the industry will benefit!
You are fighting a battle against movement of jobs proscpects and pilot capacity to other carriers like Condor, germanwings etc etc and now you brought LH Italia in the battleground as well.
The whole point is that this italian subsidiary will be a different animal because is a company operating in Italy on routes that so far are not in competition with Deutsche LH routes, including many domestic ones.
I can tell you from personal experience that if LH wants to gain market shares opening bases across european countries it does need to provide employment opportunities equally to all european citizens.
I am afraid a german company employing only or mostly german would not be welcome by the italian authorities, and this is the main reason why LH is asking for an italian AOC for the new subsidiary and registered the company in Italy.
I whish you all the best in your battle to secure your jobs and conditions if they are going to be eroded, all the industry will benefit!
You are fighting a battle against movement of jobs proscpects and pilot capacity to other carriers like Condor, germanwings etc etc and now you brought LH Italia in the battleground as well.
The whole point is that this italian subsidiary will be a different animal because is a company operating in Italy on routes that so far are not in competition with Deutsche LH routes, including many domestic ones.
I can tell you from personal experience that if LH wants to gain market shares opening bases across european countries it does need to provide employment opportunities equally to all european citizens.
I am afraid a german company employing only or mostly german would not be welcome by the italian authorities, and this is the main reason why LH is asking for an italian AOC for the new subsidiary and registered the company in Italy.
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Has anyone got any information on what can be expected from the DLR selection for LHITA? As I understand it, there will be a significant amount of computer based aptitude tests, a psych test in Italian and an English interview. Will there be a simcheck on the A319 as well?? If so, if anyone has any info I'd be very grateful for a PM.
Many thanks in advance.
Many thanks in advance.
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Ricky-G
I agree with you. As i said, i dont care if LH starts a new company, as long as its not a cheap loco-vehicle for circumnavigating our contract. If LH management thinks the AZ bankrupcy leaves a heard of desperate pilots in Italy willing to work for peanuts, i hope we all pilots will teach them a lesson.
A321
Get over of your failed entrytest for LH. Nobody takes you serious if you dont stop whining. There are many ways to fail the DLR test, its not only the psychostuff.... Every airline has its entrytests, only failed LH candidates seem to keep this trauma for life.
How would you like to call nonsense? Suboptimal information? I think if i call you clueless, its still actually quite nice. I consider your totally off topic little stings about DLR or the complete nonsense about the actual situation LH/LHITA also verbally and intellectually harassing. But also a bit funny
" If he would have kept his mouth shut, everybody would have believed he was a great thinker. Now everybody knows he is a fool."
ciao
I agree with you. As i said, i dont care if LH starts a new company, as long as its not a cheap loco-vehicle for circumnavigating our contract. If LH management thinks the AZ bankrupcy leaves a heard of desperate pilots in Italy willing to work for peanuts, i hope we all pilots will teach them a lesson.
A321
Get over of your failed entrytest for LH. Nobody takes you serious if you dont stop whining. There are many ways to fail the DLR test, its not only the psychostuff.... Every airline has its entrytests, only failed LH candidates seem to keep this trauma for life.
How would you like to call nonsense? Suboptimal information?
I think if i call you clueless, its still actually quite nice. I consider your totally off topic little stings about DLR or the complete nonsense about the actual situation LH/LHITA also verbally and intellectually harassing. But also a bit funny" If he would have kept his mouth shut, everybody would have believed he was a great thinker. Now everybody knows he is a fool."
ciao
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Hello there.
I applied to LH Italia some weeks back, got a reply that I would have to speak italian. Now I was asked via email if I was still interrested, since they have dropped the italian speaking of the requirement list. I have 2000 F/O hours on the F50, with a well established SOP minded operator Does anyone have any info on if there is a holding pool or are they recruiting as we speak??
1975
I applied to LH Italia some weeks back, got a reply that I would have to speak italian. Now I was asked via email if I was still interrested, since they have dropped the italian speaking of the requirement list. I have 2000 F/O hours on the F50, with a well established SOP minded operator
Does anyone have any info on if there is a holding pool or are they recruiting as we speak??1975
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1975, you should read the other posts, only very few pass the screening becuase the LH guys play bad tricks on the SIM.
So far there is no AOC and noone knows it they will ever hire non LH pilots.
So no rush.
So far there is no AOC and noone knows it they will ever hire non LH pilots.
So no rush.