With experience, is Ryanair really that bad?
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It's more of a hope than a certainty I suppose, given the way things are going (some would say I contributed to).
To be honest, what I want out of flying is a career that lets me remain reasonably stable and to know where I stand. And when the time comes, to allow me to start a family and settle down a bit.
Mind you, going by past experiences I'll be lucky if I have a family aged 50! Can't even hold down a relationship longer than two years, me!
To be honest, what I want out of flying is a career that lets me remain reasonably stable and to know where I stand. And when the time comes, to allow me to start a family and settle down a bit.
Mind you, going by past experiences I'll be lucky if I have a family aged 50! Can't even hold down a relationship longer than two years, me!
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Your views definately have the 'ring' of your first 'career' job that you mention and that is normal.
But, at some point you have to stop thinking how lucky you are to be paid to do a job which you consider a hobby and a pleasure, because it is/was that very attitude that has allowed accountants to lower the industry's general T&C's.
They know how much you love your job and therefore they think they can slowly errode away at your benefits/perks/salary to either increase the profit or to reduce costs to perhaps meet targets and secure bonuses.
Either way, you are doing a job for which you should be awarded a salary and an overall package that reflects the level/cost we incur in training and the level of responsibility placed on you while doing your job.
I dont work for FR, but I do think it is a bit cheap not to allow the crew to drink coffee/bottled water/coke for free while on duty, you cant just pop out to the vending machine, and because its your job that puts you in that environment, they should keep you hydrated and comfortable.
So, when companies start making their employees pay for a coke, pay to charge their mobile, pay to use the toilet, you have to question the respect the company is showing towards you.
Do you blindly show respect and loyalty towards someone/thing who doesnt reciprocate those qualities towards you?
I think with age and experience your opinions may well change.
Dont get me wrong, I am not saying we should all constantly moan and be negative, but fair is fair...and if an employer is being fair then there is no reason to complain, but when they are not....then people will complain about the slightest of issues.
But, at some point you have to stop thinking how lucky you are to be paid to do a job which you consider a hobby and a pleasure, because it is/was that very attitude that has allowed accountants to lower the industry's general T&C's.
They know how much you love your job and therefore they think they can slowly errode away at your benefits/perks/salary to either increase the profit or to reduce costs to perhaps meet targets and secure bonuses.
Either way, you are doing a job for which you should be awarded a salary and an overall package that reflects the level/cost we incur in training and the level of responsibility placed on you while doing your job.
I dont work for FR, but I do think it is a bit cheap not to allow the crew to drink coffee/bottled water/coke for free while on duty, you cant just pop out to the vending machine, and because its your job that puts you in that environment, they should keep you hydrated and comfortable.
So, when companies start making their employees pay for a coke, pay to charge their mobile, pay to use the toilet, you have to question the respect the company is showing towards you.
Do you blindly show respect and loyalty towards someone/thing who doesnt reciprocate those qualities towards you?
I think with age and experience your opinions may well change.
Dont get me wrong, I am not saying we should all constantly moan and be negative, but fair is fair...and if an employer is being fair then there is no reason to complain, but when they are not....then people will complain about the slightest of issues.
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Just a question about zerotohero
Regrettably off thread here however ..
.. how do airlines react when they see answers (presumably in their many written questionaires) from someone like zth whose literacy is way down the scale ( for an educated professional ) ?
Do they think that because he is 95% literate it's ok because he can probably understand nearly everything that is written ( even if he can't spell it) or accept it because that's as good as it gets these days ?
I pose this qustion as a linguist and with respect to your profession where the necessity of adhering to recognised standards is paramount and ( presumably ) corner -cutting and sloppiness is not permitted.
Regards
AS
.. how do airlines react when they see answers (presumably in their many written questionaires) from someone like zth whose literacy is way down the scale ( for an educated professional ) ?
Do they think that because he is 95% literate it's ok because he can probably understand nearly everything that is written ( even if he can't spell it) or accept it because that's as good as it gets these days ?
I pose this qustion as a linguist and with respect to your profession where the necessity of adhering to recognised standards is paramount and ( presumably ) corner -cutting and sloppiness is not permitted.
Regards
AS
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South Coast,
I appreciate your comments - indeed, no doubt with time will come change, and I'm sure I'm not the first example of your very eager FO, and I'm sure I shan't be the last. But I do understand this company somewhat, and I think long gone are the days where you 'yes sir' or 'thank you ma'am' everyone you meet in an effort to please. Don't get me wrong, I'll always go out of my way to help my colleagues do their job because they are the people I am working with, so of course I'm going to do my best for them. But I realise what our company cotton on to, and I realise the part I played in the eroding of our working lives by paying for my type rating and almost feel obliged to do nothing more to satisfy it. Unfortunately I find there is a very fine line to cut when crewing ask you to work a day off (it's been happening more recently for some reason), sometimes I say yes if I genuinely feel up for it, but if I can't do it then I can't do it, and I make that clear. I see some people in my position literally bending over backwards and sometimes I feel like giving then a slap!
I'm all for a unity between pilots/cabin crew, but it is difficult within FR due to the vastness of the airline in terms of bases and the sheer volume of staff distributed around them.
I can't imagine anybody not wanting things to improve, but of course you can think of it like a thunderstorm - it requires a 'trigger'. I personally believe that it is in human nature (as persons and as people) to allow oneself to be pushed around to a point, but when considering people as thousands of persons, there comes that point when there is a silent agreement between all that something needs to be done.
In a way, this has led to a complacency on my part that, ok, things are certainly not improving, but surely there will come a point when we'll all say at once,
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
I'm not a businessman, I understand the fundamentals, but how would one go about such a transformation?
I'm sure Flintstone will jump in and tell everyone not to buy type ratings, and of course he is right. If nobody bought their own ratings, as supply began diminishing the airline would be forced to explore alternatives. But my qualm with this, is I don't believe it's practical to organise thousands of people into such a line of action, especially when you couple that to the fact that every one of these thousands has ambitions higher than Mt Everest!
I guess the real question is, what can we do from the inside in a company that doesn't recognise trade unions?
Thanks
I appreciate your comments - indeed, no doubt with time will come change, and I'm sure I'm not the first example of your very eager FO, and I'm sure I shan't be the last. But I do understand this company somewhat, and I think long gone are the days where you 'yes sir' or 'thank you ma'am' everyone you meet in an effort to please. Don't get me wrong, I'll always go out of my way to help my colleagues do their job because they are the people I am working with, so of course I'm going to do my best for them. But I realise what our company cotton on to, and I realise the part I played in the eroding of our working lives by paying for my type rating and almost feel obliged to do nothing more to satisfy it. Unfortunately I find there is a very fine line to cut when crewing ask you to work a day off (it's been happening more recently for some reason), sometimes I say yes if I genuinely feel up for it, but if I can't do it then I can't do it, and I make that clear. I see some people in my position literally bending over backwards and sometimes I feel like giving then a slap!
I'm all for a unity between pilots/cabin crew, but it is difficult within FR due to the vastness of the airline in terms of bases and the sheer volume of staff distributed around them.
I can't imagine anybody not wanting things to improve, but of course you can think of it like a thunderstorm - it requires a 'trigger'. I personally believe that it is in human nature (as persons and as people) to allow oneself to be pushed around to a point, but when considering people as thousands of persons, there comes that point when there is a silent agreement between all that something needs to be done.
In a way, this has led to a complacency on my part that, ok, things are certainly not improving, but surely there will come a point when we'll all say at once,
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
I'm not a businessman, I understand the fundamentals, but how would one go about such a transformation?
I'm sure Flintstone will jump in and tell everyone not to buy type ratings, and of course he is right. If nobody bought their own ratings, as supply began diminishing the airline would be forced to explore alternatives. But my qualm with this, is I don't believe it's practical to organise thousands of people into such a line of action, especially when you couple that to the fact that every one of these thousands has ambitions higher than Mt Everest!
I guess the real question is, what can we do from the inside in a company that doesn't recognise trade unions?
Thanks
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I've never worked in a service station on the M1.....
And I agree with what you're saying, like I said that is purely my story based on my (limited) experience thus far
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13thstage,
To tell the truth, I'd rather kill two birds with one stone and have both (I imagine anyone would). I think somebody with experience in this profession, a veteran as you accurately put it, deserves that. Some of the people I fly with certainly do and are undervalued without a doubt.
Thanks
To tell the truth, I'd rather kill two birds with one stone and have both (I imagine anyone would). I think somebody with experience in this profession, a veteran as you accurately put it, deserves that. Some of the people I fly with certainly do and are undervalued without a doubt.
Thanks
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AlpineSkier
Yes I cant spell for sh*t and I know this only too well, it however has not held me back in my life unless I choose to be an english teacher! I have always exceded at everything I do because I am willing to work hard, spelling however my brain just cant grasp for some reason, belive me I have tried.
thankfully in this proffesion when the wings are on fire and your decending at 8000fpm udside down ATC dont expect you to spell MAY DAY! to them! they pretty much have an idea whats going on.
thanks for the put down though, always makes me feel all warm inside.
Yes I cant spell for sh*t and I know this only too well, it however has not held me back in my life unless I choose to be an english teacher! I have always exceded at everything I do because I am willing to work hard, spelling however my brain just cant grasp for some reason, belive me I have tried.
thankfully in this proffesion when the wings are on fire and your decending at 8000fpm udside down ATC dont expect you to spell MAY DAY! to them! they pretty much have an idea whats going on.
thanks for the put down though, always makes me feel all warm inside.
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I have significant experience as a pilot with other airlines.
They are basically all the same.
I prefer Ryanair to nearly all of them because ......
a)They don't pretend to be anything they are not.
b)For me they tick the important boxes which is why most people stay with them............ROSTERS and Money.
c)The aeroplanes are very well maintained and generally new.
d)The training is taken seriously and lots of effort goes into it.
e)Tell me what's better and at least as secure?
f)I'm a glutton for punishment.
They are basically all the same.
I prefer Ryanair to nearly all of them because ......
a)They don't pretend to be anything they are not.
b)For me they tick the important boxes which is why most people stay with them............ROSTERS and Money.
c)The aeroplanes are very well maintained and generally new.
d)The training is taken seriously and lots of effort goes into it.
e)Tell me what's better and at least as secure?
f)I'm a glutton for punishment.
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@ zth
Thanks for the quick reply, however I really would be interested to know if you have have ever had any feedback from your employer about poor literacy.
In a profession like yours where everything is so regulated and there are mandatory checklists etc and very swift comprehension is everything, I would be puzzled if there is no reaction.
As far as thanking me for the put-down, no problem . Annual subscriptions available at very reasonable rates
Thanks for the quick reply, however I really would be interested to know if you have have ever had any feedback from your employer about poor literacy.
In a profession like yours where everything is so regulated and there are mandatory checklists etc and very swift comprehension is everything, I would be puzzled if there is no reaction.
As far as thanking me for the put-down, no problem . Annual subscriptions available at very reasonable rates
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Reluctant737 - Your enthusiasm is nice - but Ryanair is a tough place to work. Forget the "machine capable of stuff..." and think very hard about what your job entails.
You do have the words of a newbie (I am not trying to discredit you) and I think you offer a view which is biased.
You do have the words of a newbie (I am not trying to discredit you) and I think you offer a view which is biased.
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Lads Im working as an Instructor at the moment barely surviving on about 600e a month working 7days a week mostly twelve hours a day ...
Luckily enough i have a job coming up with Ryanair and hopefully il eventually get a day off and more than a 1000euro a month ...
Some people dont realise how lucky they are .If you dont like it you know what to do .
Luckily enough i have a job coming up with Ryanair and hopefully il eventually get a day off and more than a 1000euro a month ...
Some people dont realise how lucky they are .If you dont like it you know what to do .
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Alpine Skier,
You made your point but you are a distraction to the thread. Kindly post elsewhere, this is a thread about working for Ryanair, not about Spelling & Grammar.
I am an ex Ryanair man myself. I enjoyed my time working there. Why? Because it was my first job, I was young, I enjoyed working with some great people, the roster was good, the money was good and I had a good base.
Why did I leave? Because I realised that I wanted to do different things in my career. I still have 38 years left of flying! I guess I was curious to see what other operators and aircraft were like. I joined a UK airline on the Airbus and really enjoy it. Do I miss leaving Ryanair? No, but I do think their rostering system is one of the best (if your not on a floating base contract). Your home every night and I was based where I wanted to be so I was happy. There will always be pros and cons everywhere you go to. I do not agree with some of Ryanair's practices, but their SOP's and Training is some of the best I have seen.
There is a lot of information on this website about them, I think you have enough here to make your own mind up. I also think Reluctant737's posts are very balanced and very true.
Good Luck
You made your point but you are a distraction to the thread. Kindly post elsewhere, this is a thread about working for Ryanair, not about Spelling & Grammar.
I am an ex Ryanair man myself. I enjoyed my time working there. Why? Because it was my first job, I was young, I enjoyed working with some great people, the roster was good, the money was good and I had a good base.
Why did I leave? Because I realised that I wanted to do different things in my career. I still have 38 years left of flying! I guess I was curious to see what other operators and aircraft were like. I joined a UK airline on the Airbus and really enjoy it. Do I miss leaving Ryanair? No, but I do think their rostering system is one of the best (if your not on a floating base contract). Your home every night and I was based where I wanted to be so I was happy. There will always be pros and cons everywhere you go to. I do not agree with some of Ryanair's practices, but their SOP's and Training is some of the best I have seen.
There is a lot of information on this website about them, I think you have enough here to make your own mind up. I also think Reluctant737's posts are very balanced and very true.
Good Luck
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Very interesting stuff. I am an easyJet pilot, but follow Ryanair closely. I think there are some very honest posts here. Reluctant737 is probably who Ryanair was built for - young, keen, capable, hard-working and never worked for another airline. TheGlide reminds me so much of my own view at his stage of my flying career - incredulous someone was about to pay me anything at all for flying a fancy new jet and just desperate to do the job. I too would gladly have told all whiners to shove off - it is only as the years progressed that I became more discerning. Sadly, my lack of airline experience tainted my views, and in retrospect I was completely wrong. I spent many years in the RAF and easyJet is now the 5th airline I have worked for - my perspective is now very different. I probably most identify with eagerbeaver1 - I wistfully reflect on my own naivety when I started out.
My genuine hope for Ryanair is that enough people wake up to the harsh reality of what they are dealing with and seek union representation to change the face of their potentially excellent company. Best of luck.
My genuine hope for Ryanair is that enough people wake up to the harsh reality of what they are dealing with and seek union representation to change the face of their potentially excellent company. Best of luck.
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Hi,
Ryanair is as you take it, I personally love it but it is my first airline job so I still am wearing the rose colored glasses.
The a/c are very well maintained and lovely to fly, I fly with great people only come across the odd funny one but every airline/base has them. I have been given the base I wanted, I was one of the lucky ones on that account though! The base I fly from is very sociable and everyone is highly professional.
All in all for a first job its great especially being on the younger side of life so I am lucky just have my training loans to pay off, which is possible with the Brookfield salary. The rest is for me to use to enjoy life and save and live.
I am Brookfield so I have no idea what T&C's are, I fly and get paid, if I go tech down route I get no pay for the split duty time where I sit in a hotel, but on the plus side I have been lucky when this happened Ryanair did fax a credit card through and it all went on that, the hotel and food so they do look after you if you get stuck some where (from my experience this is, I have heard of Captains who paid it all and it took them over 6 months to get the money back).
The money is good but I would be happier earning less and having allowances, basic pay and paid leave. I hate sitting working out my hours to see if I can live over this month.
My colleges on Ryanair contracts have slowly over the years seen the pay decrease and the terms and conditions slowly disappear, so from there view things have been gradually going down hill.
If you want good money, home every night and a very stable roster (you can go through your diary counting 5/4 for the entire year and that's what you can expect) then Ryanair is for you, as long as you do not mind bringing your own food or drink. Personally I like it keeps the waist line under control. Its more of a family man lifestyle.
My only concerns at the moment are the 300 cadets and 100 planes we are getting, I say this because I have no idea where they will go, especially when we are cutting back at certain bases and moving crews and planes else where due to the economic situation. This winter for line F/O will be VERY VERY slow since all the cadets who are on the cheaper rates will be flying just hope summer is good so I can save and batten down the hatches. These new cadets are all still waiting for there new contracts as they are being 'edited' as one cadet has been told, it will be very interesting to see what they are offered.
I have a feeling Ryanair will just get to big for itself, like a star and when a star gets to big it implodes!
MOL has been a clever guy but I think his greed how now turned on him, with new planes arriving and no where for them to go.
But on the whole if things were really this bad would all the current and experienced Captains and F/O's still be here.
All the best
ADWJENK
Ryanair is as you take it, I personally love it but it is my first airline job so I still am wearing the rose colored glasses.
The a/c are very well maintained and lovely to fly, I fly with great people only come across the odd funny one but every airline/base has them. I have been given the base I wanted, I was one of the lucky ones on that account though! The base I fly from is very sociable and everyone is highly professional.
All in all for a first job its great especially being on the younger side of life so I am lucky just have my training loans to pay off, which is possible with the Brookfield salary. The rest is for me to use to enjoy life and save and live.
I am Brookfield so I have no idea what T&C's are, I fly and get paid, if I go tech down route I get no pay for the split duty time where I sit in a hotel, but on the plus side I have been lucky when this happened Ryanair did fax a credit card through and it all went on that, the hotel and food so they do look after you if you get stuck some where (from my experience this is, I have heard of Captains who paid it all and it took them over 6 months to get the money back).
The money is good but I would be happier earning less and having allowances, basic pay and paid leave. I hate sitting working out my hours to see if I can live over this month.
My colleges on Ryanair contracts have slowly over the years seen the pay decrease and the terms and conditions slowly disappear, so from there view things have been gradually going down hill.
If you want good money, home every night and a very stable roster (you can go through your diary counting 5/4 for the entire year and that's what you can expect) then Ryanair is for you, as long as you do not mind bringing your own food or drink. Personally I like it keeps the waist line under control. Its more of a family man lifestyle.
My only concerns at the moment are the 300 cadets and 100 planes we are getting, I say this because I have no idea where they will go, especially when we are cutting back at certain bases and moving crews and planes else where due to the economic situation. This winter for line F/O will be VERY VERY slow since all the cadets who are on the cheaper rates will be flying just hope summer is good so I can save and batten down the hatches. These new cadets are all still waiting for there new contracts as they are being 'edited' as one cadet has been told, it will be very interesting to see what they are offered.
I have a feeling Ryanair will just get to big for itself, like a star and when a star gets to big it implodes!
MOL has been a clever guy but I think his greed how now turned on him, with new planes arriving and no where for them to go.
But on the whole if things were really this bad would all the current and experienced Captains and F/O's still be here.
All the best
ADWJENK
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My opinion...
Sadly, RyanAir might be the dream to get a "jet pilot job" to many pilots who did not qualify to be hired by a reputable "legacy" air carrier, but unfortunately, the dream quickly becomes a nightmare to many.
xxx
Obviously, you want to be a pilot, and prefer to be with RyanAir, than doing house plumbing repairs, or unloading a van of food and groceries at your nearest supermarket. As far as I am concerned, go ahead, and fly for your buddy O'Leary, and keep on sending your C.V. for a decent position anywhere else, with the flight experience you acquire.
xxx
The model for O'Leary's operation was Southwest Airlines, in the USA, which quickly acquired a good reputation with the travel public, and the flight crews of Southwest are rather well paid pilots, with decent work conditions with a dynamic airline. They do not take theirselves too seriously, laugh at their own "peanuts and coke" catering, and their staff have smiles at airports and during flight. And, despite the economic conditions, they make money, despite their low fares. Nothing at RyanAir resembles Southwest. Just the original idea...
xxx
So, enjoy building time with RyanAir, and bail-out ASAP for a better job when offered one. That is all you need from O'Leary, "flight time and experience". And one day, you will say "yeah, I was a RyanAir boy, ha ha ha"...! Consider O'Leary's operation your purgatory, before the paradise... As a retired pilot, many people ask me "which airline" in Europe, I recommend "any airline" but RyanAir... even railroads are better.
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
Obviously, you want to be a pilot, and prefer to be with RyanAir, than doing house plumbing repairs, or unloading a van of food and groceries at your nearest supermarket. As far as I am concerned, go ahead, and fly for your buddy O'Leary, and keep on sending your C.V. for a decent position anywhere else, with the flight experience you acquire.
xxx
The model for O'Leary's operation was Southwest Airlines, in the USA, which quickly acquired a good reputation with the travel public, and the flight crews of Southwest are rather well paid pilots, with decent work conditions with a dynamic airline. They do not take theirselves too seriously, laugh at their own "peanuts and coke" catering, and their staff have smiles at airports and during flight. And, despite the economic conditions, they make money, despite their low fares. Nothing at RyanAir resembles Southwest. Just the original idea...
xxx
So, enjoy building time with RyanAir, and bail-out ASAP for a better job when offered one. That is all you need from O'Leary, "flight time and experience". And one day, you will say "yeah, I was a RyanAir boy, ha ha ha"...! Consider O'Leary's operation your purgatory, before the paradise... As a retired pilot, many people ask me "which airline" in Europe, I recommend "any airline" but RyanAir... even railroads are better.
xxx
Happy contrails
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I would not want to be a First Officer at Ryanair but as a Stansted based Captain the job takes a lot of beating.
We get well paid, a fixed five on four off roster and home every night.
The cadets coming through are very well trained and a pleasure to fly with.
Obviously the job is not so good if you are not based at home and have to commute but with our expansion everybody gets their base of choice eventually.
Even commuting is easy because we can just jumpseat without a ticket providing we are in uniform.
Downside is trying to get leave when you want it but the day to day job is good.
Most of the negative replies on here are by people that don't work for Ryanair and probably failed the selection because we do have many applications for every job with consequential high failure rate.
We get well paid, a fixed five on four off roster and home every night.
The cadets coming through are very well trained and a pleasure to fly with.
Obviously the job is not so good if you are not based at home and have to commute but with our expansion everybody gets their base of choice eventually.
Even commuting is easy because we can just jumpseat without a ticket providing we are in uniform.
Downside is trying to get leave when you want it but the day to day job is good.
Most of the negative replies on here are by people that don't work for Ryanair and probably failed the selection because we do have many applications for every job with consequential high failure rate.