easyjet
Longhitter wrote about NSF:
First of all: you sound like an arrogant and pompous g*t.
Whereas as Longhitter writes this sort of thing to people interested in joining his little air operation:
http://www.pprune.org/2649277-post5.html
Did you not pen this on the 12th June 20o6 at 11.05 GMT?
How's it going these days in ****ty jet?
Good?
I note this week 01st March 2009 08:51 you chose to write;
About the ATC Officers controlling Paris Charles de Gaulle airport. Interesting.
If you have a box, strongly consider getting back in it. Ta.
WWW
First of all: you sound like an arrogant and pompous g*t.
Whereas as Longhitter writes this sort of thing to people interested in joining his little air operation:
http://www.pprune.org/2649277-post5.html
Did you not pen this on the 12th June 20o6 at 11.05 GMT?
With that attitude you're not going to make a lot of friends in the business...
Like in every company: if you don't like working there for any reason you should look for something else and don't blame the company for your own misery. If you are in any way smart you will have gathered info on the terms and conditions / lifestyle before joining and since you are in control of your own life you shouldn't nag afterwards.
The financial situation of CJ is sound, fleet will expand to +/- 23 RJ's over the next year or so, best stafftravel deal in the business.
'Nuff said...
Like in every company: if you don't like working there for any reason you should look for something else and don't blame the company for your own misery. If you are in any way smart you will have gathered info on the terms and conditions / lifestyle before joining and since you are in control of your own life you shouldn't nag afterwards.
The financial situation of CJ is sound, fleet will expand to +/- 23 RJ's over the next year or so, best stafftravel deal in the business.
'Nuff said...
How's it going these days in ****ty jet?
Good?
I note this week 01st March 2009 08:51 you chose to write;
Since the French are convinced that their ways are best they can't be bothered to think about running their ATC more efficiently.
If you have a box, strongly consider getting back in it. Ta.
WWW
WWW
So I have strong opinions about stuff, sound familiar? I will say things as I feel them since we live in a part of the world where freedom of speech is (still, for the moment) a basic human right.
No, I will not go back in any box.
Any relevant things to add except digging up my prune history?
I do not disagree with SNF in the experience department, I just disagree with his disdain for turboprop experience and the way he described his view on what a FO should and can(not) do. I too think that going from a left seat in a prop to the left seat in a jet is not a good idea, better get some hours in the right seat to get a feel for the handling. Decision making and airmanship, however, grow just as fast (maybe even faster) operating a small jet or turboprop.
I am not the only one who felt a sense of arrogance in his point of view, hence the reaction.
So I have strong opinions about stuff, sound familiar? I will say things as I feel them since we live in a part of the world where freedom of speech is (still, for the moment) a basic human right.
No, I will not go back in any box.
Any relevant things to add except digging up my prune history?
I do not disagree with SNF in the experience department, I just disagree with his disdain for turboprop experience and the way he described his view on what a FO should and can(not) do. I too think that going from a left seat in a prop to the left seat in a jet is not a good idea, better get some hours in the right seat to get a feel for the handling. Decision making and airmanship, however, grow just as fast (maybe even faster) operating a small jet or turboprop.
I am not the only one who felt a sense of arrogance in his point of view, hence the reaction.
Last edited by Longhitter; 9th Mar 2009 at 12:35.
A disdain only your inferred.
And I'm sure you were.
But that's fine now.
WWW
ps How is life in ****tyjet?
And I'm sure you were.
But that's fine now.
WWW
ps How is life in ****tyjet?
Ah, no friends in previous job. I see.
WWW
WWW
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Longhitter,
Don't take it all so personally, dear!
Really? Is he really saying that?? The answer is, of course, no.
Lovely! Can't wait to meet you in the Flight Deck. Silence between 'Set Standard' and 'Set QNH' no doubt.
As WWW says, back in the box.....
Don't take it all so personally, dear!
You're basically saying that you don't trust your young colleague with handling the aicraft in an emergency.
First of all: you sound like an arrogant and pompous g*t.
As WWW says, back in the box.....
NSF:
Your defensive posts are getting longer and longer. The phrase "he doth protest too much" springs to mind.
The fact is that you are coming over as a bit of a pompous chappy.
I usually enjoy and agree with most of your posts but I think you have upset quite a few people with your fixed ideas (no doubt all based on your own experience).
I came to jets from 16 years of turboprops (10 years of Argosy and 6 years of Belfast). I was in the right seat of the DC-10 for just one year when I got my command and went on to cruise around the globe in one without an ounce of trouble for six years including a couple of years of line training on it.
I found it a very easy transition.
Perhaps my perspective on the problem is a little bit different from yours since flying round the world (literally) with turboprops is a little bit different to Channex doing early morning papers to Jersey and Guernsey and then fetching flowers back to Bournemouth?
(That is assuming that the aircraft wasn't broken in the process).
Your defensive posts are getting longer and longer. The phrase "he doth protest too much" springs to mind.
The fact is that you are coming over as a bit of a pompous chappy.
I usually enjoy and agree with most of your posts but I think you have upset quite a few people with your fixed ideas (no doubt all based on your own experience).
I came to jets from 16 years of turboprops (10 years of Argosy and 6 years of Belfast). I was in the right seat of the DC-10 for just one year when I got my command and went on to cruise around the globe in one without an ounce of trouble for six years including a couple of years of line training on it.
I found it a very easy transition.
Perhaps my perspective on the problem is a little bit different from yours since flying round the world (literally) with turboprops is a little bit different to Channex doing early morning papers to Jersey and Guernsey and then fetching flowers back to Bournemouth?
(That is assuming that the aircraft wasn't broken in the process).
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A good operator in a Turboprop will be a good operator on a jet.
Even good guys new on a type will need a while to get comfortable. IMO
Just ask many of the Britannia guys who went from 15 years on the 737-200 to the 767!!
'Can I fly it manually now.............PLEASE'
Even good guys new on a type will need a while to get comfortable. IMO
Just ask many of the Britannia guys who went from 15 years on the 737-200 to the 767!!
'Can I fly it manually now.............PLEASE'
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NSF said
above FL100, being at FL250 or FL340 does not make any difference, the TAS/GS/MN high or low does not make any difference on straight lines between 2 waypoints (cruise are always flown in autopilot while we read the newspaper and we drink the coffee)..
Below FL100, speed is limited to 250 kts maximum, and this is always reached with an ATR or Dash8 in descent.
Approaching speed is more or less the same with a heavy TP or heavy jet.
However, a turboprop is slower, less complex overall, does not travel as far afield and operates at much lower levels.
Below FL100, speed is limited to 250 kts maximum, and this is always reached with an ATR or Dash8 in descent.
Approaching speed is more or less the same with a heavy TP or heavy jet.
And he's got a black belt.
WWW
WWW
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Thanks chaps for those that are supportive. To the Longhitters of the world, what can I say? Nothing at all.
My case is laid out, and for some it appears all too much to read. Actually Stan Woolley has said it all far better than I have in a sentence - "Even good guys new on a type will need a while to get comfortable. IMO". Much more succinct than me and absolutely correct. Anyway, that's it from me on this one - thanks for the discussion. Best of luck to those trying to get permanent jobs at easyJet, which is what this was all about in the first place.
My case is laid out, and for some it appears all too much to read. Actually Stan Woolley has said it all far better than I have in a sentence - "Even good guys new on a type will need a while to get comfortable. IMO". Much more succinct than me and absolutely correct. Anyway, that's it from me on this one - thanks for the discussion. Best of luck to those trying to get permanent jobs at easyJet, which is what this was all about in the first place.
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A good operator in a Turboprop will be a good operator on a jet.
I came from a commuter size turbo prop and didn't have a problem, neither did any of the other people in my class with similar back grounds, nor the people in the class before and after me.
It's one of those typical old fashioned, out of touch, ideas that people who have flown props are no good. Perhaps it was like that in the 1950's when NSF got into aviation, but believe it or not, things have progressed considerably over the course of 5 decades...
As seasexsun pointed out earlier, automation levels (EFIS, Cat III etc) are roughly the same and so are approach speeds. The only thing missing in general is autothrottle/thrust. Perhaps descent planning is a bit different because jets tend to be a bit more slippery than props, but that should be nothing that any average pilot can't fix. Just different numbers, like pitch and power...
There has to be a first time for everything in life, all it comes down to is; good selection, good preparation, good training and the proper attitude.
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It appeared the simple question I asked a few days ago has sparked quite the debate.
The reason I asked was that i've never had any wish to do long haul, and so easyjet with all its pros and cons seemed quite a good idea. The reason I was asking about a direct entry command was a purely financial one. I'm not sure my mortgage, car loan and multiple holidays a year would appreciate the £10 - 20,000 pay cut. Six months fine, but a few years.
As for the turboprop/ jet thing.
I'd like to make a few points.
We're not talking about going from a Q400 to a 747.
I'd like to think Q400 is fairly beasty. Its got lots of fun things like fadec and efis(makes my mate(a 757 chap) rather jelous on the efis front.).
As for its performance. if i take off after a BA shuttle, there usually isn't much in it after 10-15 mins. Granted once he gets into the cruise, they leave us for dead, And granted the best I can look forward to is a coffee and a nutrigrain bar, while they've got there sausages and egg. But thats another matter entirly.
On the approach. And take note here. If I get to FL150, and I'm sat 10nm behind a jet. I WILL have to slow down so as not to catch the jet up. its very frustrating. ATC will pop us behind on the theory that there faster. But there not. Especially below FL100.
Anyway. I was just asking.
just a wee point. I think that if I went from my Q400 to a EBM 145(which is smaller and not much faster than the 400 at any point). i could then go to the LHs of a A319. Which seems bizzare.
See ya'll later
The reason I asked was that i've never had any wish to do long haul, and so easyjet with all its pros and cons seemed quite a good idea. The reason I was asking about a direct entry command was a purely financial one. I'm not sure my mortgage, car loan and multiple holidays a year would appreciate the £10 - 20,000 pay cut. Six months fine, but a few years.
As for the turboprop/ jet thing.
I'd like to make a few points.
We're not talking about going from a Q400 to a 747.
I'd like to think Q400 is fairly beasty. Its got lots of fun things like fadec and efis(makes my mate(a 757 chap) rather jelous on the efis front.).
As for its performance. if i take off after a BA shuttle, there usually isn't much in it after 10-15 mins. Granted once he gets into the cruise, they leave us for dead, And granted the best I can look forward to is a coffee and a nutrigrain bar, while they've got there sausages and egg. But thats another matter entirly.
On the approach. And take note here. If I get to FL150, and I'm sat 10nm behind a jet. I WILL have to slow down so as not to catch the jet up. its very frustrating. ATC will pop us behind on the theory that there faster. But there not. Especially below FL100.
Anyway. I was just asking.
just a wee point. I think that if I went from my Q400 to a EBM 145(which is smaller and not much faster than the 400 at any point). i could then go to the LHs of a A319. Which seems bizzare.
See ya'll later
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Many aircraft have windscreen bird-strike limits of 250Knots below FL100 or 80, both jet and turboprop. If you have to slow down behind jets, it is not because the Q400 is faster, but that the jet chooses to slow down to 250knots or less due to company sops, atc, etc. Most turboprops can scream in towards an approach because they have better get of of jail cards than a jet for slowing down late. Like it or not, most companies will prefer to familiarise t/prop only pilots in the RS before moving them to LS, with the exception maybe of smaller jets like the EMB145.
Regards.
Regards.
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Like it or not, most companies will prefer to familiarise t/prop only pilots in the RS before moving them to LS, with the exception maybe of smaller jets like the EMB145.
GSS has hired turboprop guys straight onto the jumbo, unfortunataly for you and your little friend NSF, those airplanes has not crashed yet.
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his is the english style to make the company saving £10k a year on the new FO. In other words, this is not a pay increase, this is a worse pay in the biggining and normal pay afterwards, for the same job... We don't have that in latin countries
Jet vs prop will always be a chicken or the egg story, especially in the UK where most employees are gullible enough to believe every line from management. Other countries take a more pragmatic view, with an equally good safety record by the way.
Prop pilots are 'no good,' unless of course they pay 23K for a TRSS type rating, then all over sudden it's 'top notch.'
Sorry to say so, but NSF is sounding more and more like a management lackey.
p.s. How anyone ever gets to fly jets when most people start off on props is beyond me. Did they all do their PPL on a 737?
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Anyone who knows who NSF is in easyJet or on our BALPA forum will know him to be widely be one of the most respected, reasoned and professional operators that we have here. His reputation is faultless to many of the people in easy who have never even met him.
Whenever I read one of his posts they are always balanced but with his own opinions as a caveat and I believe he has the rare talent to see two sides of every argument.
If you have taken his post to be offensive or in some way pompous I suggest that is you taking offense to some form of inferiority complex that seems to be fuelled by take off weight and how high you sit from the ground on your aeroplane. Fact is we will all look out of the window and look down on people. That's just human nature and we here aren't going to change that. I am sure BA guys look out of their 319 at our Orange dayglow paint scheme with a certain amount of disdain. Maybe they do, maybe many don't..I don't know and to be honest I don't really care. I try to go to work, enjoy it for what it is and not get too wound up about what I fly.
Fact is easyJet in their inifinite wisdom have decided a MTOW for Direct Entry Captain at the time they needed them and for non TRSS Direct Entry FO's. It was all on supply and demand. They probably turned away many many great operators with their rules and barriers to entry. Then so have many other airlines, but fact is it's their trainset we have to remember that...Now times have changed and according to WWW we are all going to spiral into years of debt ridden doom
All I know is my own experience, and whilst I might quite happily pass a sim, line training and line check on a new type LHS could I really honestly say I know it enough to command it? Yes maybe I could in my own mind and with confidence operate it safely....But am I being arrogant or confident or naive..I can't answer that and by not having an incident is that down to me primarily or the world that we live in now of automation and a strong safety culture... Standards, safety records and reliability are all far better then they have ever been (touch wood!) and the actual chances of an aircraft/crew related incident are very low.
Before you all start turning to NSF and saying he is being pompous have a little look inside yourselves and see the message he is conveying. Remember it is his opinion and you have yours and I guess the truth is somewhere in between. Where the truth is who knows, but that's above my pay grade for sure ..Oh well, off to Lyon in the Kyriad again for me..! 
Whenever I read one of his posts they are always balanced but with his own opinions as a caveat and I believe he has the rare talent to see two sides of every argument.
If you have taken his post to be offensive or in some way pompous I suggest that is you taking offense to some form of inferiority complex that seems to be fuelled by take off weight and how high you sit from the ground on your aeroplane. Fact is we will all look out of the window and look down on people. That's just human nature and we here aren't going to change that. I am sure BA guys look out of their 319 at our Orange dayglow paint scheme with a certain amount of disdain. Maybe they do, maybe many don't..I don't know and to be honest I don't really care. I try to go to work, enjoy it for what it is and not get too wound up about what I fly.
Fact is easyJet in their inifinite wisdom have decided a MTOW for Direct Entry Captain at the time they needed them and for non TRSS Direct Entry FO's. It was all on supply and demand. They probably turned away many many great operators with their rules and barriers to entry. Then so have many other airlines, but fact is it's their trainset we have to remember that...Now times have changed and according to WWW we are all going to spiral into years of debt ridden doom
All I know is my own experience, and whilst I might quite happily pass a sim, line training and line check on a new type LHS could I really honestly say I know it enough to command it? Yes maybe I could in my own mind and with confidence operate it safely....But am I being arrogant or confident or naive..I can't answer that and by not having an incident is that down to me primarily or the world that we live in now of automation and a strong safety culture... Standards, safety records and reliability are all far better then they have ever been (touch wood!) and the actual chances of an aircraft/crew related incident are very low.
Before you all start turning to NSF and saying he is being pompous have a little look inside yourselves and see the message he is conveying. Remember it is his opinion and you have yours and I guess the truth is somewhere in between. Where the truth is who knows, but that's above my pay grade for sure
..Oh well, off to Lyon in the Kyriad again for me..!
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Well said TRon. If people actually read the wise words that NSF has written instead of heading off on a rant with an agenda, we might be spared some of the inane comments...