First Officer for Sale on Ebay (for free!!)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere in time
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Aeroengineer1, yes it was true. It was 94/95, when a flight school offered a B737 rating and then send the guys to that airline to pay around 35€ per hour.
Arouned 20-25 of these guys flew over the summer and at the end the company kept 2 or 3 of them.
Arouned 20-25 of these guys flew over the summer and at the end the company kept 2 or 3 of them.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Turkey
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is true
Baron737: Thank you for PM
Baron737 and EAM:
I talked to some friends too after your comments before receiving your PM and learned this is true. They said there are some airlines still doing this, some from NA and Europe.
Baron737 and EAM:
I talked to some friends too after your comments before receiving your PM and learned this is true. They said there are some airlines still doing this, some from NA and Europe.
200 hour guys ARE NOT going to suddenly end up in the LHS
After all, the practice of buying type ratings has become rampant, despite the proven problems this has created (lack of consistency in training when obtained from various third-party providers).
Now in most airlines this would not get through the door of Flight Ops, but in some cases even Chief Pilots can be just a bit too compliant (read spineless), and sooner or later it could happen.
Ask yourself, would a hospital allow a kid who has always dreamed of being a doctor to short-cut the system and PAY to gain surgical experience? I sincerely hope not.
Why then is our industry allowing safety-critical roles to be "sold" to the highest bidder (or in the case of paid work, the lowest bidder)?????
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland mainly, rather than at home.
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Distinct lack of originality (maybe he didn't see the first ebay pilot ad?) but funny nonetheless. Liked the bit about breeding and livestock!
Lambs to the slaughter?
Lambs to the slaughter?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh no, another.................
Well, he's made it to PPRUNE at least and willing to pay for his type rating!
Where do they get their money from?
He won't be the last. I do sympathise, it's a shocking time to come out of training, but it is a bad time whatever you have majored in, think of all those students coming out of Uni applying for a handful of jobs......Bad, bad times!
Still, I can't advocate this type of self marketing, it (IMHO) is cheap and degrading, let alone the damage (potential) it could inflict on T&C's for future crews.
Please read all of the description before placing a bid!
Coming up for auction, a brand new pilot (The seller. Hereafter mentioned as “pilot”) with JAA CPL, ATPL-theory. In addition to this, the pilot will most probably gain the ME/IR by the end of April/beginning of May 2009 (frozen ATPL). It doesn’t end there, by the mid of July, he’ll also have gained experience in the world of MCC at Oxford Aviation Academy at Arlanda, Stockholm Sweden.
In a world, and at a time, where drastic financial cuts are everyday news, the people and companies living in it need to use drastic methods in order to get by.
This pilot has a perfect breeding record, good health and has documented good characteristics for the job to be done. He’s not shy or aggressive to other pilots, but get along very well in various social situations.
He’s still a young fellow. Inexperienced, yes, but still very eager to perform well and to develop his skills further. Somehow he managed to acquire relatively excellent skills with the English language in addition to his mother tongue. He has also gained basic knowledge of the German language. With the right leader and firm tutoring he’ll excel at your discretion!
As a buyer, you sign up for taking care of the necessary administration that needs to be done (be careful to check with your national customs if you’re allowed to import this kind of livestock without prior permission!) and agree to let him fly for you and/or your company. You also see to that the certificates are valid in your area of operations. If not so, and you’re still interested in buying this right, you must inform the seller before you place a bid. The pilot is open for any suggestions worldwide. (Preferably warm, sunny and where the palms grow, in Sweden it’s quite the opposite).
You also agree to pay him a salary, enough for living expenses and some exercise at the local gym. If not able to pay him a salary (tough climate in the business of air operations) you at least agree to accommodate him and give him food and many hours of flying with your aircraft(s). When it comes to a type rating, he’s perfectly open to pay for it himself. In return it would be nice if you let him fly afterwards.
Please, feel free to email me any questions! I’d gladly send you an updated CV.
Other records:
Formerly employed by the Swedish Armed Forces (Air Defense), where he started off as a conscript and fought his way through to become a 2nd Lieutenant. Thereafter he drilled new conscripts for almost 12 months where after he went on a mission abroad, to Kosovo, for six months. There he served as a Liaison Assistant in the Regional LMT command group together with Finnish, Irish, Latvian, Czech, and Slovakian officers. Altogether, almost three years were spent in the uniform of the Swedish army. At the end of the summer of 2008 he was offered a place at the royal military academy in Stockholm (MHS Karlberg) but declined in the favor of a civil ATPL, ME/IR MCC modular course.
Storemanager and a locksmith apprentice. Had the responsibility for running the business, from ordering of new stock to processing and selling direct to the customers.
Educated hug therapist with certificate.
Experience:
250hrs flight time in total. PIC app 140hrs. ME app. 20-25hrs. IFR app. 15hrs. CC app. 80hrs.
Aircrafts flown:
Cessna 172R and RG, PA28-Warrior and Archer II, Saab 91 Safir, Beechcraft Duchess 76
And finally, some legal stuff
Disclaimer
• The pilot (the seller) currently lives in Sweden.
• Terms of contract to be decided and approved prior to acceptance of payment.
• If no terms of contract has been agreed upon within 30 days from the end of this auction or at all (whichever is first), the seller has the right to relist this object.
• The time limit for the right to hire me will be confined within above mentioned contract.
• The pilot (the seller) has the right of refusal to any and all bids.
• If discovered that the buyer (employer alike) is involved in illegal activities, all costs etc that have been, or planned to be, charged the pilot (the seller) shall be refunded by the buyer (employer), as well as means of travelling back to the pilots native home by the most expeditious and comfort way possible. All contracts etc are also declared invalid. In addition to this, the buyer (employer) also agrees to give the pilot (the seller) a big chocolate ice cream for the pain caused.
Coming up for auction, a brand new pilot (The seller. Hereafter mentioned as “pilot”) with JAA CPL, ATPL-theory. In addition to this, the pilot will most probably gain the ME/IR by the end of April/beginning of May 2009 (frozen ATPL). It doesn’t end there, by the mid of July, he’ll also have gained experience in the world of MCC at Oxford Aviation Academy at Arlanda, Stockholm Sweden.
In a world, and at a time, where drastic financial cuts are everyday news, the people and companies living in it need to use drastic methods in order to get by.
This pilot has a perfect breeding record, good health and has documented good characteristics for the job to be done. He’s not shy or aggressive to other pilots, but get along very well in various social situations.
He’s still a young fellow. Inexperienced, yes, but still very eager to perform well and to develop his skills further. Somehow he managed to acquire relatively excellent skills with the English language in addition to his mother tongue. He has also gained basic knowledge of the German language. With the right leader and firm tutoring he’ll excel at your discretion!
As a buyer, you sign up for taking care of the necessary administration that needs to be done (be careful to check with your national customs if you’re allowed to import this kind of livestock without prior permission!) and agree to let him fly for you and/or your company. You also see to that the certificates are valid in your area of operations. If not so, and you’re still interested in buying this right, you must inform the seller before you place a bid. The pilot is open for any suggestions worldwide. (Preferably warm, sunny and where the palms grow, in Sweden it’s quite the opposite).
You also agree to pay him a salary, enough for living expenses and some exercise at the local gym. If not able to pay him a salary (tough climate in the business of air operations) you at least agree to accommodate him and give him food and many hours of flying with your aircraft(s). When it comes to a type rating, he’s perfectly open to pay for it himself. In return it would be nice if you let him fly afterwards.
Please, feel free to email me any questions! I’d gladly send you an updated CV.
Other records:
Formerly employed by the Swedish Armed Forces (Air Defense), where he started off as a conscript and fought his way through to become a 2nd Lieutenant. Thereafter he drilled new conscripts for almost 12 months where after he went on a mission abroad, to Kosovo, for six months. There he served as a Liaison Assistant in the Regional LMT command group together with Finnish, Irish, Latvian, Czech, and Slovakian officers. Altogether, almost three years were spent in the uniform of the Swedish army. At the end of the summer of 2008 he was offered a place at the royal military academy in Stockholm (MHS Karlberg) but declined in the favor of a civil ATPL, ME/IR MCC modular course.
Storemanager and a locksmith apprentice. Had the responsibility for running the business, from ordering of new stock to processing and selling direct to the customers.
Educated hug therapist with certificate.
Experience:
250hrs flight time in total. PIC app 140hrs. ME app. 20-25hrs. IFR app. 15hrs. CC app. 80hrs.
Aircrafts flown:
Cessna 172R and RG, PA28-Warrior and Archer II, Saab 91 Safir, Beechcraft Duchess 76
And finally, some legal stuff
Disclaimer
• The pilot (the seller) currently lives in Sweden.
• Terms of contract to be decided and approved prior to acceptance of payment.
• If no terms of contract has been agreed upon within 30 days from the end of this auction or at all (whichever is first), the seller has the right to relist this object.
• The time limit for the right to hire me will be confined within above mentioned contract.
• The pilot (the seller) has the right of refusal to any and all bids.
• If discovered that the buyer (employer alike) is involved in illegal activities, all costs etc that have been, or planned to be, charged the pilot (the seller) shall be refunded by the buyer (employer), as well as means of travelling back to the pilots native home by the most expeditious and comfort way possible. All contracts etc are also declared invalid. In addition to this, the buyer (employer) also agrees to give the pilot (the seller) a big chocolate ice cream for the pain caused.
Where do they get their money from?
He won't be the last. I do sympathise, it's a shocking time to come out of training, but it is a bad time whatever you have majored in, think of all those students coming out of Uni applying for a handful of jobs......Bad, bad times!
Still, I can't advocate this type of self marketing, it (IMHO) is cheap and degrading, let alone the damage (potential) it could inflict on T&C's for future crews.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got back from work and had a quick look to see what was going on in the aviation world...saw this and laughed. I think its quite funny. I then carried on reading and saw a barrage of abuse aimed at the guy....get a grip!!!
So many times I have seen posts about people mortgaging their parents upto the hilt and getting slated for it, well what else are we meant to do? How else do you propose we pay for our licences? Low hour guys have no option but to borrow more money to get through CTC schemes and the like. I have heard it suggested that they should all not do it and then the airlines would have no choice but to hire you the old fashioned way ( they pay for your type rating and bond you whilst paying you a decent wage ). Well here is a suggestion...we all tell BALPA that we want to go on strike until our employers reinstate those kind of opportunities!! Alot of pilots I have come across have are only concerned about themselves and wouldnt dream of sacrificing a weeks salary for the good of others. Until we, as a group, are willing to do that why dont we just lay off these wannabees trying to gain work in their chosen proffesion!
Out
JJ
So many times I have seen posts about people mortgaging their parents upto the hilt and getting slated for it, well what else are we meant to do? How else do you propose we pay for our licences? Low hour guys have no option but to borrow more money to get through CTC schemes and the like. I have heard it suggested that they should all not do it and then the airlines would have no choice but to hire you the old fashioned way ( they pay for your type rating and bond you whilst paying you a decent wage ). Well here is a suggestion...we all tell BALPA that we want to go on strike until our employers reinstate those kind of opportunities!! Alot of pilots I have come across have are only concerned about themselves and wouldnt dream of sacrificing a weeks salary for the good of others. Until we, as a group, are willing to do that why dont we just lay off these wannabees trying to gain work in their chosen proffesion!
Out
JJ
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CTC
set up by a bunch of greedy TREs and funded by weak individuals. I weep for my industry.
set up by a bunch of greedy TREs and funded by weak individuals. I weep for my industry.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about earning the money yourself, then with it in the bank, funding your training? I did it. Anyone can do it.
Hard work never hurt anybody. It is a shame that people think that because they cannot borrow the money, there is no way they can do it. There is always another avenue.
Hard work never hurt anybody. It is a shame that people think that because they cannot borrow the money, there is no way they can do it. There is always another avenue.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland mainly, rather than at home.
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No sponsor
Fair point, so did I (well, most of it anyway), but back then it WAS comparitively cheap, about £30,000 got you a good start with your training, £40,000 would see you through barring any double failures with retraining requirements.
Now I see figures mentioned of £60,000 to £70,000 (albeit for integrated courses), and wages ten years later are not significantly higher today, certainly not double what they were when I trained, yet the training cost seems to have doubled somehow, especially at CTC. That's a lo.....ong time to save up!
Fair point, so did I (well, most of it anyway), but back then it WAS comparitively cheap, about £30,000 got you a good start with your training, £40,000 would see you through barring any double failures with retraining requirements.
Now I see figures mentioned of £60,000 to £70,000 (albeit for integrated courses), and wages ten years later are not significantly higher today, certainly not double what they were when I trained, yet the training cost seems to have doubled somehow, especially at CTC. That's a lo.....ong time to save up!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Middle East
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update
So do tell gl2651, did your ebay advert land you a 320/737 job?
Silverhawk, hit the nail on the head
. These con men are almost as low as certain bankers.
CTC
set up by a bunch of greedy TREs and funded by weak individuals. I weep for my industry.
set up by a bunch of greedy TREs and funded by weak individuals. I weep for my industry.
. These con men are almost as low as certain bankers.
Last edited by mona lot; 27th Mar 2009 at 00:39.
JJ737 - You got that right
" Well here is a suggestion...we all tell BALPA that we want to go on strike until our employers reinstate those kind of opportunities!! "
That is is the only way it will change- until then people will do whatever it takes to get in the door.
20driver
That is is the only way it will change- until then people will do whatever it takes to get in the door.
20driver
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Turkey
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't hire
mad manc man
I wouldn't hire with those credentials even if he wishes to pay.
Anyway, I think airlines should be more careful nowadays in selection of FO candidates. I feel it became easier to become a commercial pilot, lately. It seems to me that anyone having some money around 80 thousand euros or less may receive a license. I even heard that some banks provide loans for attendance to a flight school. This became an industry.
I wouldn't hire with those credentials even if he wishes to pay.
Anyway, I think airlines should be more careful nowadays in selection of FO candidates. I feel it became easier to become a commercial pilot, lately. It seems to me that anyone having some money around 80 thousand euros or less may receive a license. I even heard that some banks provide loans for attendance to a flight school. This became an industry.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Middle East
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So gl2651 enlighten us, did your cynical attempt to highlight the plight of the desperate wannabe airline pilot work? Did you land an airline job?
Last edited by mona lot; 29th Mar 2009 at 23:46.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not just F/Os on EBAY. There are captains takeing jobs with Ethiopian for $60.00 USD per day until line training is done. Flying revenue flight for $60.00 a day. How about that?