Aer Lingus - LGW
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: dublin
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Get real mate, like any other profession it's demand and supply. We all think we are so special. It's just a job. The slots in LGW will be filled by the best qualified on the day. It's a good company paying the going rate. If you don't like the T&C's, go around......
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Newcastle
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And that my friends is why our conditions are going down the pan.
Still so much to learn.Keeping cheap labour alive while the airlines reap the reward.
Would you honestly pass up this opportunity in protest for better terms and conditions?
Are you really suggesting I am naive (with "so much to learn") to apply for this job, given the current limited opportunities, market conditions and forecast for 2009?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Europe
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If you have no job, you'd be mad not to take this position if offered, albeit on less favourable conditions than across the water.
This is a very similar situation that happens at my company. Open a new base and offer it on reduced terms.
Here's me thinking that if we had a union things might be better.
The union is only as strong as it's members - looks like they boys in Dublin wimped out on this one. Ah well, I suppose it doesn't really affect them.
Is this true or not.
This is a very similar situation that happens at my company. Open a new base and offer it on reduced terms.
Here's me thinking that if we had a union things might be better.
The union is only as strong as it's members - looks like they boys in Dublin wimped out on this one. Ah well, I suppose it doesn't really affect them.
Is this true or not.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ireland
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No, it is not true.
When Aer lingus proposed the opening of the BFS base IALPA strongly opposed the T&Cs imposed by the company. These included no union representation, no seniority, promotion on "merit", no right to transfer to DUB etc.
After 2 threatened strikes and 5 months of very arduous negotiations a much better deal was achieved and this is the template for other bases outside the ROI.
The key characteristis of this template are: All new entries join a global seniority list and all promotion will be in accordance with this list. All pilots have the right to transfer to ROI (DUB &ORK) on ROI T&Cs after a 5 year period, retaining their global seniority position. They have the right to join the ROI DB pension scheme on transfer and transport their existing DC pension to buy service.
Some of the T&Cs are better than ROI e.g. 5/3/5/3 roster, others are worse e.g. pension. However, a DB scheme like pilots in Ireland have simply would not be possible under UK legislation.
Right to union representation.
The T&cs of Aer lingus pilots outside ROI have a long way to go yet in terms of improvement and IALPA are already engaged in pursuing these improvements. However, they are much better than they would have been had IALPA not taken the action it did. And they stand a much better chance of further improvement as a result of that action.
When Aer lingus proposed the opening of the BFS base IALPA strongly opposed the T&Cs imposed by the company. These included no union representation, no seniority, promotion on "merit", no right to transfer to DUB etc.
After 2 threatened strikes and 5 months of very arduous negotiations a much better deal was achieved and this is the template for other bases outside the ROI.
The key characteristis of this template are: All new entries join a global seniority list and all promotion will be in accordance with this list. All pilots have the right to transfer to ROI (DUB &ORK) on ROI T&Cs after a 5 year period, retaining their global seniority position. They have the right to join the ROI DB pension scheme on transfer and transport their existing DC pension to buy service.
Some of the T&Cs are better than ROI e.g. 5/3/5/3 roster, others are worse e.g. pension. However, a DB scheme like pilots in Ireland have simply would not be possible under UK legislation.
Right to union representation.
The T&cs of Aer lingus pilots outside ROI have a long way to go yet in terms of improvement and IALPA are already engaged in pursuing these improvements. However, they are much better than they would have been had IALPA not taken the action it did. And they stand a much better chance of further improvement as a result of that action.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: in my happy place
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I am with you Tooloose
I hope there are more people like you out there! IALPA is doing a lot behind the scene! I think things will inprove! BUT If not....the crew in bases outside the ROI will have the oppertunity to get back to DUB. AS LONG AS IALPA AND THE PILOTS STAND THEIR GROUND!!!
People can say and complain all they want. But one thing makes EI pilots different from others. We stand toghether and we do all we can to prevent EI to run with our T/C's. So the T/C's might not be great now but they are better than most, at least the EI do all they can to improve the T/C's. If we dont like them in the end then WE as a group will strike. Hence the past cancelled stikes. If the rest of the european pilots would do the same then maybe we wouldnt be in this mess with people like MOL. If all his pilots wised up and come together as one, maybe think about strike action, the MOL's would have no choice than to respect us as a workforce. Not as a cheap weak " **** them all we can" work force!
(By the way my spelling might not be great... like to see you wright in a foreign language. Feel sorry for you if all you can say or comment about is somebodies spelling. Sorry character.
)
Last edited by Green Army; 8th Jan 2009 at 18:19.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: On the Camel's back
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Easymoney,
You're barking up the wrong tree there. When I look at the way EI pilots act as a group, once again I am ashamed to be associated with the numerous spineless toads who inhabit FR.
There's a damn good reason EI pilots enjoy a vastly superior income level and lifestyle to FR pilots.
When was the last time FR pilots at another base did something on your behalf? Or even more disgracefully, when was the last time you actually cared?
You're barking up the wrong tree there. When I look at the way EI pilots act as a group, once again I am ashamed to be associated with the numerous spineless toads who inhabit FR.
There's a damn good reason EI pilots enjoy a vastly superior income level and lifestyle to FR pilots.
When was the last time FR pilots at another base did something on your behalf? Or even more disgracefully, when was the last time you actually cared?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Europe
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"When was the last time you cared"
Quite alot actually, I'm an IALPA member etc. etc. You shouldn't tar all FR pilots with the same brush.
Don't mean to offend anyone, only posted originally after some t*ss"r slagged off Ryanair Pilots. But I still think it's wrong that the new LGW pilots are going to be on far less than the DUB pilots for doing exactly the same job.
Don't forget some FR pilots have stood together under extreme conditions, only to be let down by the Irish legal System.
Quite alot actually, I'm an IALPA member etc. etc. You shouldn't tar all FR pilots with the same brush.
Don't mean to offend anyone, only posted originally after some t*ss"r slagged off Ryanair Pilots. But I still think it's wrong that the new LGW pilots are going to be on far less than the DUB pilots for doing exactly the same job.
Don't forget some FR pilots have stood together under extreme conditions, only to be let down by the Irish legal System.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
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Given the current strength of the Euro against the pound they are getting an even cheaper deal than they envisaged. Consequently, yet one more excuse less to pay badly compared to DUB.
I too am surprised IALPA let this slip through, thin end of a MOL type wedge if you ask me.
I too am surprised IALPA let this slip through, thin end of a MOL type wedge if you ask me.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: My house
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I believe the interviews have been and gone for the moment yes.
Clanger don't be so hard on yourself, a fellow low hours course mate was fortunate enough to get through!
Ah Camelhair back to his old tricks of kicking the dust about FR, will it ever end..............
Clanger don't be so hard on yourself, a fellow low hours course mate was fortunate enough to get through!
Ah Camelhair back to his old tricks of kicking the dust about FR, will it ever end..............
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Guildford
Age: 49
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Nick,
Yeah, I know what (and who!) you mean, but my application went in off my own back - those you mention had the benefit of NM. Still if they come back for a second bite, I may get some luck....
Yeah, I know what (and who!) you mean, but my application went in off my own back - those you mention had the benefit of NM. Still if they come back for a second bite, I may get some luck....
Join Date: Apr 2007
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It's 4 a/c initially to be supplemented by another 4 by year end at LGW so EI will need plenty of pilots. I wouldn't be surprised if A330's are based there shortly.
The T&C's are "local market" conditions. (i.e. easyjet pay rates or similar)The terms posted above by the Italian JP person are correct. There will probably be direct entry captains also as there will almost certainly insufficent bids internally.
One advantage is that because of the seniority list you can transfer to Dublin in seniority once unfrozen. A 200 hr cadet on year 1 of the payscale in Dublin has a package of roughly €100k outside of company contributions to the defined benefit pension scheme. The basic top of scale is €206k (€250k by the time you add the gravy).
The starting salaries in Gatwick may be marginally lower than easyjet or whoever but long term it's probably a better bet. Balance sheet wise EI have almost a billion in the bank and will be around for long while yet unlike XL, flyglobespan, Aer Arann, maybe even FR.
The T&C's are "local market" conditions. (i.e. easyjet pay rates or similar)The terms posted above by the Italian JP person are correct. There will probably be direct entry captains also as there will almost certainly insufficent bids internally.
One advantage is that because of the seniority list you can transfer to Dublin in seniority once unfrozen. A 200 hr cadet on year 1 of the payscale in Dublin has a package of roughly €100k outside of company contributions to the defined benefit pension scheme. The basic top of scale is €206k (€250k by the time you add the gravy).
The starting salaries in Gatwick may be marginally lower than easyjet or whoever but long term it's probably a better bet. Balance sheet wise EI have almost a billion in the bank and will be around for long while yet unlike XL, flyglobespan, Aer Arann, maybe even FR.
