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Brookfield working practices, conditions, and Contracts

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Old 17th Dec 2008, 16:18
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Brookfield working practices, conditions, and Contracts

Hello, and welcome to the Thread.

I wanted to start this in order to show people just what is going on at Brookfield.

I have insider information as to what is going on at the company, and how they treat the contract pilots, especially at Ryanair.

Please be aware that this is not just a bashing of the company of people working within it, it is a frank and honest insight into what is going on, what it means to be contracted to them, what your rights are, and most importantly, (especially for the people that are straight out of training as a cadet and working for Ryanair), what the tax implications are when you become a contractor.
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Old 17th Dec 2008, 16:30
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Tax

When you sign the contract with Brookfield, it clearly states that you must be either Self Employed, or Ltd company.
This means that Brookfield have no responsability towards you. You must deal with your own tax and accounts, and with your own national insurance.
My advice, if you are going to Ryanair, register with HMRC as Ltd company or Self employed BEFORE signing the training contract and starting the type rating. This will allow you to pay for the rating under the banner of your company. This will mean that your company is £25,000 in loss, however it also means that you might be able to claim the training costs back for the type rating against tax. IE, you must pay that £25,000 back to the company at a nominal rate, before the company is in profit and starts having to pay tax on profits.

Remember, you only pay tax on profit if you are self employed, meaning all expenses incurred will be deducted from the total amount you are paid, and you pay tax on the remainder.

If you are a limited company, things are a whole lot more difficult. There is something called IR35, which unfortunately, by the looks of things, a lot of Brookfield Pilots are operating under. This means that you are operating outside the HMRC rules of running a Ltd company. You must make sure that you are not doing this!! - I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH!!
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Old 17th Dec 2008, 18:36
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all due respect whistle and you may well get to it in time.but if brookefield are operating illegaly or close to illegaly.why are you giving advice as to how best work with them?ooops!better run here come the fr/brk apologists.i'll be back later.
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 14:07
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W.B. I hear from friends that they've been forced to take a calendar month off duty. They cannot find out who imposes is, other than it's in their contract with BRK, nor why.
If this a ruse for BRK to try and demonstrate they are not fulltime employees, it won't work, not after a few years of same. But you said in your posts that BRK pilots have to be self-employed or a company. If this is so, why the need for the previous scenario? Also, if so, how can an agency impose such a restriction? If indeed, if they can control what you do and how you do it, how can they also say you are an independant company? It all sounds very dubious. Do you have any factual insight?
Do any other agencies operate thus, and if not why not? I've worked for various contractors outside UK, and had discussions with some of the major agencies in recent years. None have suggested anything about a mandatory break in a working year. So what's behind this wth BRK?
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 15:48
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The Grim Repa -

As most people know, going to Ryanair as a cadet means going to Ryanair as a Brookfield Contract Pilot.
The sad fact of the matter is that for the majority of people coming out flight training now, there are no jobs, and the only company that is still having a strong intake of people, (paying for their own ratings I might add), is Ryanair.
Now I am not going to make accusations or tell you what you should or shouldn't do or think because that is counter poductive, I just want people to know the facts of being a contract pilot with FR and BRK.

Rat 5 -

You are required to be a sole trader or Ltd in order for BRK to not have to pay employer NI and taxes, sick pay, and pension options. It states that in the contract;-
"All payments to the pilot are inclusive of any employer's costs or contributions and should any such costs or contributions be imposed upon the contractor, then these will be deductible from the payments listed in Schedule 1".
Ie, this means that if the revenue decide that what they and you are doing is incorrect and declare that the pilot IS employed full time by BRK, then they will take out all the employer contributions that are required to be paid under a normal PAYE basis from your Gross pay as per the Schedule 1 lists, and pay you the remainder as a salary.

With regards to the month off and all of this. In the eyes of the revenue, if you are working 100% of your time with one company, you are classed as employed by them.
The brookfield contract states that you are signing a 5 year contract, for 12 months of a year, and you are not allowed to work for any other company durring this period. This effectively means that for 100% of your working time, you are working for Brookfield.
If you have done contract work with other companies before in aviation or any other field, then you might find that these contracts are generally for a period of 6-12 months, after which you re-sign an extention or something similar.
Now, as far as it is understood, durring this month off, you are not allowed to work for anyone else. By all accounts, you are removed from the BRK books, as so it looks like you are only now employed for 11 months of the year.

There does seem to be a bit of a problem when you start looking at the way the contract is worded and constructed. You have to be Self employed or a Ltd company. Supposedly in that case, YOUR company is providing the service to BRK, as you the pilot actaully works for your own company and not for BRK, (as mentioned; - "The pilot will not be deemed to be an officer or agent, employee or servant of the Hirer or the Contractor"), however, the contract is worded in such a way that it is talking about YOU the pilot, and not YOU the company.
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 15:53
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Fair dinkum,please continue.
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 16:06
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Wait, but there's more!

Ladies and Gentlemen,

There's a lot more to working as a Brookfielder than just issues about taxes and Ltd's and that weird full-month-off thing. Like for instance: as a Brookfield pilot, you are TREATED by Ryanair (which you DO NOT have a contract with, your contract is with BROOKFIELD) as a regular permanent employee in all matters of rostering and working conditions. You cannot go back to Brookfield and complain about anything except perhaps if they forget to pay you for something. So Ryanair is being very clever here, giving you all the disadvantages of being a contractor (no benefits of any kind, no paid leave, everything at your own expense, out-of-base flying assigned at last minute, etc), and the ony advantages of being a contractor are the benefits O'Leary hasn't yet found a way to screw you out of. Oh, and you have absolutely no one on your side if you ever find yourself in trouble of any kind at Ryanair. No one from Brookfield, no one from anywhere.
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 17:31
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Pay

You are almost right.

Brookfield never 'forget' to pay. It just seems that apparently Ryanair dont ever pay them whenever the 12th of the month falls on a friday, sat, or sun. Obviously this means that someone is gaining a few extra days of interest on a few hundred thousand Euro that should have been divided up into pilot bank accounts.
The funds should arrive in your account on 12th of every month. If that falls on a weekend, BRK have a duty to make that money available in your account before or on the contracted pay date. Your financial dealings are not with FR, it is BRK. For that reason, BRK are the ones liable for paying you the owed amount. If you contact FR in relation to this, they will tell you that it is nothing to do with them, and contact BRK.

There are not two ways about it. If you are contracting your services to BRK as a Ltd company and operating in that manner, you have certain rights, as well as responsibilites. Your company has the right to remove those pilot services from BRK until payment is retrieved in full. You also have the right to sell debt onto a debt collection agency. (I wonder how that would go down with BRK when a debt collector turns up at the door of the office). However, attempting to follow through on these rights will more then likely end up in the fact that your company service's are no longer required.

Unfortunately, unlike if you are actaully employed, BRK can terminate your contract and then hire someone immidiately to fill your position, and there is nothing really you can do about it. If you were fully employed, this would obviously not be allowed, and there would be all sorts of leagal issues. (This all starts getting into employment law).

You are not alone. You can join either IALPA, BALPA, or IPA, (Independant Pilots Association). All of these organisations can offer help and advice, but as they are not recognised by FR, they can not fight your corner within the company negotiations area. Having said this, even if they were recognised by FR, you don't work for FR, so your terms and conditions would not be altered.
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 18:22
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Once again a thread on Pprune seems to be getting unnecessarily long and complicated. I am a BRK pilot operating for Ryanair and I've never not been paid. Yes, mainly I don't get paid on 12th of the month but at the very latest it's 16th and that's only when weekends get in the way.

I'm not going to defend Ryanair or Brookfield as the contract is very much in their favour, but I'm pleased to have a job and get a very nice regular income from it. The unpaid month is not ideal but as long as you budget throughout the rest of the year it shouldn't be a problem.

Regarding late payment and employment law and debt-collection agencies....come on! If I was a self-employed plumber or builder and sent an invoice which got paid 3 days late I wouldn't start sending lawyers to their doorstep! Nor would I as a Brookfield pilot as if I did I'm sure it would have negative consequences...all for the matter of 2 or 3 days!

Chill out, relax and be happy to have a job which is well paid in the current climate. I would understand your point if everyone was a month behind on payments...but to the best of my knowledge that's nothing like the case.
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 19:10
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Skyflyer -

First off, I completely agree. You are not going to rock the boat for the sake of 2 days. All I am pointing out, is that you have different rights being a Ltd and Sole Trader.

Your comment about the weekend getting in the way of payment. Should the 12th have fallen on a friday, and you got paid on 16th, that means monday would have been 15th? Meaning the weekend cant have got in the way.
Anyway, I digress

There are people that on regular occasions that are missing very large amounts of money, and have to fight to get it paid. As BRK pay you an amount of money, and then tell you what work you have done, they are in effect giving you a statement. If money is then missing, it is up to you to prove that they actually owe you.
Now I also understand that they can't just pay you what you say you have done hours wise. There must be a cross-check, but as a statement is sent to BRK from FR detailing the hours worked by every contract pilot, why is this not forwarded on to the pilot before pay day inorder for inaccuracies and discrepencies to be checked and corrected before 12th-16th pay day?
As a sole trader / Ltd contract pilot, it is your responsibility to prove to HMRC, should you ever be investigated, how many hours you did, how much you got paid, and where the money has come from for the duration of the time that your accounts must be kept. Voyage reports are the obvious way to do this, but do you not ever find it strange that a computer system that tracks logging in and out, plus duty times and monthly schedule times manages to be incorrect for some reason when it comes to pay day?

An example of the sorts of where BRK are again taking advantage of young pilots because they know what sort of position they are in, and hat the current market unfortunately is an employers market in the aviation industry.
Should you look at the Schedule 1, it very clearly states when you reach the thresholds of JAR 25 hours, your pay increases. So, if things are being done correctly, when you reach 500.01 hours, then every hour subsequently should be invoiced and paid at the higher rate. Not the case. As BRK just pay you an amount, and i bet that none of it for the month in which you reach the threshold is paid at the Contract rate.
Hours have been calculated, and flights organised so that a pilot reaches this threshold at the begining of a calander month, so, effectively this means that you are doing a full months work at a lower rate. This could mean, (and with exchange rates as they are), 100 hours x 20 Euro = 2000 Euro. Now, that is well over £1500 which by rights is yours. Now this IS happening, and people should be aware of this.

As a company providing a service, you should invoice for the work you have done. This is also a requirement if you are VAT registered as BRk pay VAT in stirling, and pay in Euro. You should be able to request VAT in Euro but they will not do that becuase they don't want the hasstle of having to deal with international VAT. Further to this, you will never recieve your VAT before you have had to pay HMRC, meaning you will be a few thousand pounds out of pocket every few months.
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 19:17
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To put it in perspective look at the Sky Europe thread where you will find they have just been paid for October, and "hope" to be paid soon for Nov
& they are full time employees.

In that respect working for Brookfield is a bit like having all your income paid as "regularly" as the full time guys sector checks. Normally more or less on time , occasionaly screwed up.
In terms of leave, you have been joined ,I hear, in your situation by Skavsta and Bergamo ( if they accepted) who recently voted to have 5/4 but had to accept 1 mths allocated A/L to get it, strange choice but they made it.
As you are paid up to a maximum of 900 (actual) hours (which of course can be a little more or less as you are paid scheduled) having a month off shouldn't change your income, in fact you should be better off, 1 mth less hotac etc for the "floaters". In any case 11mths is more than enough to do 900hrs so you shouldn't lose anything unlike the full time guys when they are given unpaid leave.
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Old 26th Dec 2008, 11:18
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There is a clause mentioned above which seems to me to be plainly un-enforceable. You are a self-employeed person. This means you can choose who you provide services for, and when. You have the right to have more than one customer. Now BRK says you have to take 1 month off and are not allowed to earn money from any other aviation related business. How on earth can an agency dictate to a self-employed person in this way? Forget about still being able to do 900 hrs in 11 months. There is no guarantee of work. I even hear contractors are on SBY (= duty) for no pay. I really can not get my head around how anyone can defend such a position as prohibiting a self-employed person from earning a living however they choose.
No doubt if you rock the boat no work will come your way. I also hear you have to give a notice period of 3 months. Again, how on earth can a self-employed person, who has no guarantee of work, be required to give notice. To whom? You are working for your self.
Where's Flying lawyer?
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Old 26th Dec 2008, 13:39
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I heard in the past that 1 (or more) countries had refused to accept the "allocated status" of self employed "requested" by Brookfields.
That may be hearsay, but it is a fairly thin veneer of respectability for the authorities to see through. A bit of a minefield really, and if someone was investigated`probably to their detriment more than that nice Mr Dooney.
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Old 26th Dec 2008, 14:45
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What a ****ty company. Get out of Ryanair or Easyjet. They are killing the profession with their reluctant terms and conditions. Open your books, study hard, then join a flag carrier

Good luck
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Old 26th Dec 2008, 14:51
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Uh oh . . . somewhere in deepest darkest France someone (who hasn't made the bridge between Thu holiday & Sat holiday ) has come home from work & found his key-board.

Put the key-board down nuageblanc, put the key-board down on the floor & walk away. . . . Pleeeease
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Old 26th Dec 2008, 15:01
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What a ****ty company. Get out of Ryanair or Easyjet.
I'm sure that all flight crewmembers will heed your advise and turn in their resignations post haste by the close of business on Monday.

Newbie... for some reason you have a major rager hard-on for both FR and EZ... two different companies with different T&Cs.

Live and let live... be employed and let those be employed... you'll be a happier cub scout.
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Old 28th Dec 2008, 18:37
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Back to an earlier post by whistle blower, what are pilots in the UK being advised by accountants with regards to IR35 legislation and whether it is applicable with the brookfield contract? any feedback would be appreciated
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Old 1st Jan 2009, 23:28
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What's a Captain's average Euro Salary per average month (average sectors etc) with Brookfield/Ryanair?
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Old 4th Jan 2009, 22:26
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A few things to address.

Captains are earning around 138 Euro per hour, and most are working around 75 hours per month. Don't forget, on this much turn over, you would also have to be VAT registered. Try getting that out of BRK. They refuse to pay VAT monthly as they are supposed to. Payment is made quaterly, and that is only if the "Nice Mr Dooney" wants to send the cheque. Ask any VAT registered BRK pilot if they have payment for November yet!!

Going back to the "I even hear contractors are on SBY (= duty) for no pay". This is happening all the time. Some First Officers are working as little as 2 days out of a block of 5, ie, 2 days flying, 2 days standby, and 1 day allocated leave, then scheduled 4 days off. This effectively means 2 days in a 9 day cycle, and 6 days per month. You could be earning good pennies, (pennies being the word to focus on!)

With regards to working for any other aviation related organisation, or any other employment, you are correct in saying that this is an un-enforcable clause. The problem may come from the OPS manual at Ryanair, which states that you can not do any other work, and as per the BRK contract, you must follow the FR ops manual to the letter. So, here lies a small problem.
In the eyes of the revenue you would be classed as fully employed by Brookfield and liable to all the PAYE taxes and NI deductions, which if is enforced, then would be taken from your pay as per the clause in the contract.

IR35 is a ruling on how you run and pay yourself within a Ltd company. Check HMRC website for information.
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Old 9th Feb 2009, 13:34
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How about a non flying post in aviation, say ground school instructor?

Many thanks
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