Forced unpaid leave at ryanair
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ireland
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slim what a sad and disparaging perspective on life and your colleagues you have. Because you have never had any support and more importantly never had the courage to support your fellow does not mean it does not exist. Kudos to the likes of Grim who sees that a problem exists and works to change the system. Why are Jiffajaffa and his ilk going to suffer now? Not because of any union but because some of his colleagues have rationalized an avaricious,conniving and twisted mind set into a dog eat dog scenario in which only by keeping him down will they get theirs.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wannabees go in to this profession knowing two things: It's going to cost them a lot and it's going to be difficult to get a job. From day dot when they turn up at whatever FTO it may be the main topic is 'how much is it going to cost me to gain employment.' When it became the industry standard for people to 'pay their way' then, in my opinion, it just became a free for all. Bang - the SSTR arrives, Pay for Line Training Schemes are set up, FTOs and Airlines affiliating themselves with certain TRTOs in order to make a quick buck and squeeze Joe Bloggs Wannabee a bit further. I remember starting flight training in 2005 when the industry was booming. Easyjet and Ryanair were desperate to put arses in the seats of their shiney new Boeings and Buses. But not at cost to themselves, and certainly not with massive salaries and attractive terms and conditions. We were all told that such and such are hiring and this is what you need to do. At no point does any FTO or TRTO say hey 'stand up for your positions and join BALPA and fight your case.' No one mutters, 'You shouldn't have to pay for that, stand your ground.' Unfortunately the majority of wannabees now believe that paying their way along with the current levels of T&Cs are now the norm and have accepted it. I too must be guilty and therefore also have no backbone as I paid for the SSTR. On the other side, I know guys who didn't (and I am in no way be judgemental here) and they still have no employment, their ratings are lapsing and their currency is fading by the day. I'm not saying this applies to everyone, however it's a pretty standard issue now.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Camel jockey
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jiffajaffa, go immediately and talk to BALPA or IALPA,
from people that are now training captains about strike action, all with a feel of confidence that we had all the cards staked in our favor. THEN I WATCH IN TOTAL DISBELIEF as they ask MOL to move aside, and took over shafting us. We can all come on here and yell and scream about how
up the situation is, but after seeing how well the union help us in the past i don't see that there is a single thing that we can do about it.And don't give me any of that bull
about "the union can only help you if you are prepared to go all the way" because i and many many more where, and grim repa if you where sitting in the ALSSA the day that they tried to weasel out of the mess they got us into you will now exactly what i am talking about. it will be in court in may,, it will be in court in nov,, in will be in court jan,, opp's judger's are on holiday, in will be in court in mar,, it will be in court in june,, opp's ryanair can't make it, it will be in court in aug no matter what, this time for sure, nothing will stop it,,,,, sorry guys our lawyer has had a better offer so you are screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: right behind you
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kilo - i and many others have been saying to anyone who will listen for years what is happening and where it is leading if unchecked.the problem is people chose not to listen,believing the likes of leo hairy camel(an individual who has a vested interestin keeping pilots in the ****,don't suppose he will advise those on unpaid leave how to address their bills).this is not the end of the "race to the bottom",unpaid leave is just another facet of the degradation of pilots terms and conditions.what of the people who could not afford to pay their type rating.are they any less talented or entitled to positions as pilots?paying for ones rating is not the cause of the horrible situation that now exists,continues to worsen and affects aviaiton in the lower cost sectors.it is just another step in the road to ruining any long term interest for new pilots in pursuing a career in aviation,all to save mega profit companies paying the dues owed for work done.
let's stop burying our head in the sand and think about your future?what will you do if you lose your medical?how will you survive when retirement comes?
let's remember,household bills do not take unpaid leave!!!
let's stop burying our head in the sand and think about your future?what will you do if you lose your medical?how will you survive when retirement comes?
let's remember,household bills do not take unpaid leave!!!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ireland
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bia botal, I can understand your frustration at falling at the first fence. It would have been a great start that first win. but a union is not a white knight that rides over the hill, kills the dragon and then rides off into the sunset.
A union is a living breathing thing, and its executive take direction from the membership about which battles to fight and how to fight them, they also get a feeling for the level of resolve and this they take into the board room/court house. Because you have a union does not mean you will win for ever more, you win, you lose and the exec. who you elect make judgment calls based on their own interpretation of the currant industrial climate but their primary concern is jobs then pay. They will squeeze (with your help) the company to ensure you do not lose one or too much of the other but no union should try to damage the company it works within. Don't give up after one little set back, M'OL is scared of unions (read any of the literature on him)
A union is a living breathing thing, and its executive take direction from the membership about which battles to fight and how to fight them, they also get a feeling for the level of resolve and this they take into the board room/court house. Because you have a union does not mean you will win for ever more, you win, you lose and the exec. who you elect make judgment calls based on their own interpretation of the currant industrial climate but their primary concern is jobs then pay. They will squeeze (with your help) the company to ensure you do not lose one or too much of the other but no union should try to damage the company it works within. Don't give up after one little set back, M'OL is scared of unions (read any of the literature on him)
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I call Surfer 07 a prat, a moron, an idiot, a scumbag, a filthy braindead Ozzie feckwit, will I get my post deleted?
If so, will the same mod please delete the prattish, moronic, idiotic scumbag's filthy post from this thread? #69 btw
And atr109 whatever is close behind......moron.
jiffajaffa, keep up the good work! Happy landings.
If so, will the same mod please delete the prattish, moronic, idiotic scumbag's filthy post from this thread? #69 btw
And atr109 whatever is close behind......moron.
jiffajaffa, keep up the good work! Happy landings.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Camel jockey
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Curser
whilst i respect your opinion, i think i can say quite confidently that you have no idea what you are taking about, we (not i)hardly fell at the first fence, nor the last but we were well on the way, or so we were lead to believe, to getting what we wanted, we were lead to believe by both IALPA and BALPA that membership and support was on the rise and that the setback from the supreme court was just the a setback, and yet with only days to go till the next court day they (IALPA) start playing games with us, without even consulting with us, there members, the very people that pay there wages, they decided to delay the court case that we had all waited so long for, it was then a master stroke by ryanair to offer a new pay deal knowing full well that most of the group had had enough. And hey-presto the whole thing fell apart. It wasn't a case of the ryanair pilots not having the balls to carry on the fight it was a case of the ryanair pilots having bills to pay and no clear sight of when all the **** was going to end.
whilst i respect your opinion, i think i can say quite confidently that you have no idea what you are taking about, we (not i)hardly fell at the first fence, nor the last but we were well on the way, or so we were lead to believe, to getting what we wanted, we were lead to believe by both IALPA and BALPA that membership and support was on the rise and that the setback from the supreme court was just the a setback, and yet with only days to go till the next court day they (IALPA) start playing games with us, without even consulting with us, there members, the very people that pay there wages, they decided to delay the court case that we had all waited so long for, it was then a master stroke by ryanair to offer a new pay deal knowing full well that most of the group had had enough. And hey-presto the whole thing fell apart. It wasn't a case of the ryanair pilots not having the balls to carry on the fight it was a case of the ryanair pilots having bills to pay and no clear sight of when all the **** was going to end.
Last edited by bia botal; 22nd Sep 2008 at 17:06.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all you holier than thou union members in your 'safe' jobs, let me explain something.
O'Leary will never, I mean never, allow a union member to enter his office on union business.
If, and it is a big if, any base or even several bases could organise a ballot and they voted in favour of union recognition, O'Leary would close the base and sack all the pilots. Simple as that. He has effectively banned any union from operating in Ryanair and he will continue so to do as long as he can get away with it. EU and Irish law have meant nothing to him in the past so why will it in the future?
Now, you tell me how I am going to organise a ballot knowing that the result will mean we all lose our jobs?
Go on explain.....................clever clogs.
Go on strike, I hear you say................and to you I say, pathetic twits, all of you. You have no idea of the reality of working for O'Leary and if you did, you would stop using phrases like 'unprofessional' or 'slags' or 'filth'.
We don't like it any more than you do but we have to put up with the ****e from the company and the extra ****e from you pillocks.
O'Leary will never, I mean never, allow a union member to enter his office on union business.
If, and it is a big if, any base or even several bases could organise a ballot and they voted in favour of union recognition, O'Leary would close the base and sack all the pilots. Simple as that. He has effectively banned any union from operating in Ryanair and he will continue so to do as long as he can get away with it. EU and Irish law have meant nothing to him in the past so why will it in the future?
Now, you tell me how I am going to organise a ballot knowing that the result will mean we all lose our jobs?
Go on explain.....................clever clogs.
Go on strike, I hear you say................and to you I say, pathetic twits, all of you. You have no idea of the reality of working for O'Leary and if you did, you would stop using phrases like 'unprofessional' or 'slags' or 'filth'.
We don't like it any more than you do but we have to put up with the ****e from the company and the extra ****e from you pillocks.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Razor where the hell are you getting your numbers from? FR the best payer my ar*e. You can be a skipper on 60k Euro total can't you? Our first year f/o's are on more than that when you include all the extras - sector pay, pension, uniform, crew meals etc etc. You haven't been seduced by all of MOL's headline figures have you? They are salaries that you will never get unless you do 900 hours a year and are a TRE/ base trainer etc.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: over the hill
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow - this isnt a professional occupation anymore - its a zoo! MoL is a sick man and he's created a sick airline that spreads like a virus among the industry. To say he "copied Southwest Airlines in the United States" is just a sick joke.
SWA Mission Statement:
"We are committed to provide our Employees a stable work environment with equal opportunity for learning and personal growth. Creativity and innovation are encouraged for improving the effectiveness of Southwest Airlines. Above all, Employees will be provided the same concern, respect and caring attitude within the organization that they are expected to share externally with every Southwest Customer".
If MOL keeps his crass ways up, God Forgive Us, but there will be a smoking hole in the ground somewhere with a terrible question arising from it: How Did It Come To This?
SWA Mission Statement:
"We are committed to provide our Employees a stable work environment with equal opportunity for learning and personal growth. Creativity and innovation are encouraged for improving the effectiveness of Southwest Airlines. Above all, Employees will be provided the same concern, respect and caring attitude within the organization that they are expected to share externally with every Southwest Customer".
If MOL keeps his crass ways up, God Forgive Us, but there will be a smoking hole in the ground somewhere with a terrible question arising from it: How Did It Come To This?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: right behind you
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
razor - you are light years off the issue.sorry i cannot indulge you in education as to the ryanair way."live and let live! all you like.i have to get back to dealing with the real issues.i am not wondering if you are a ryanair pilot or not,it is obvious that you are not from the naive posts.no offence buddy!!!
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ppjn states that the captain top rate is EUR85k or STG75k. Hence a first year skipper will no doubt be on a lot less. Out of this you have to pay tax, your own pension contributions, medicals, licence renewals, sim checks, uniforms, crew meals etc etc. I assume the top rates are based on working max hours as well.
We all know that each and every contract is different as its in MOL's interests to keep you all guessing and at each others throats. I am sure there are some lucky ones on the "old rates" that earn a lot more just as sure as I know that there will be people with a whole lot of responsibility gettting lots less.
We all know that each and every contract is different as its in MOL's interests to keep you all guessing and at each others throats. I am sure there are some lucky ones on the "old rates" that earn a lot more just as sure as I know that there will be people with a whole lot of responsibility gettting lots less.
potkettleblack ppjn numbers are wrong thats a fact so how about you stop posting garbage. Seeing as you don't work for RYR
"Out of this you pay tax" Don't people at other airlines pay tax now? Jesus I better get a job at one of those airlines. Of course figures mentioned are always gross.The figure mentioned are more than likely the basic i.e what you get paid wether you work or not, then add flight pay on top of that and you get the true figure.
Correct me If I'm wrong but On a RYR contract you do get an allowance per year to cover things such as uniform and the like. And for the nth time as a RYR employed pilot you DO NOT pay for sim checks. Only brookfield guys do! You also get pension money from RYR circa 5 grand as a captain!
Is this unpaid leave thing good hell no, and I dont agree with it for one minute. Is it better than loosing my job yes to an extent. Will I look for a contract if Im put onto unpaid leave, you better believe it!
Why are people getting so uptight, no one as yet has been asked to take unpaid leave, lets cross that bridge when we come to it instead of making a storm in a tea cup. Or is it much more fun to have unsubstantiated claims as la potkettleblack?
"Out of this you pay tax" Don't people at other airlines pay tax now? Jesus I better get a job at one of those airlines. Of course figures mentioned are always gross.The figure mentioned are more than likely the basic i.e what you get paid wether you work or not, then add flight pay on top of that and you get the true figure.
Correct me If I'm wrong but On a RYR contract you do get an allowance per year to cover things such as uniform and the like. And for the nth time as a RYR employed pilot you DO NOT pay for sim checks. Only brookfield guys do! You also get pension money from RYR circa 5 grand as a captain!
Is this unpaid leave thing good hell no, and I dont agree with it for one minute. Is it better than loosing my job yes to an extent. Will I look for a contract if Im put onto unpaid leave, you better believe it!
Why are people getting so uptight, no one as yet has been asked to take unpaid leave, lets cross that bridge when we come to it instead of making a storm in a tea cup. Or is it much more fun to have unsubstantiated claims as la potkettleblack?
Last edited by Rhodes13; 23rd Sep 2008 at 10:51.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ireland
Age: 41
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not want to take unpaid leave!! for all you f morons who had a go at me, I have bills to pay aswell, im simply making the point i will fly as much as i can and im lucky not to be out of a job at a time like this, how about all the pilots who are out of a job at the moment who would love your position in the right or left seat in RYR now???? I cant believe some of the experienced pilots in ryanair who come on here constantly moaning about absolutely everything!!
Move out of your seat, get a job with a better airline where the grass is greener and let someone else who has a realistic outlook in life and bills to pay who has NO JOB take your position! your not stuck in Ryanair!
redunancy is when an employer hands you your P45 and tells you there is no more work for you.....
Rubik thanks...
morons who had a go at me, I have bills to pay aswell, im simply making the point i will fly as much as i can and im lucky not to be out of a job at a time like this, how about all the pilots who are out of a job at the moment who would love your position in the right or left seat in RYR now???? I cant believe some of the experienced pilots in ryanair who come on here constantly moaning about absolutely everything!! Move out of your seat, get a job with a better airline where the grass is greener and let someone else who has a realistic outlook in life and bills to pay who has NO JOB take your position! your not stuck in Ryanair!
redunancy is when an employer hands you your P45 and tells you there is no more work for you.....
Rubik thanks...
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: U K
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pot, Rhodes seems to have covered things well. The guys who pay for sims etc are the contractors. a new contract captain can earn up to 155 Euro's per block hour. X 900 seems a bit more than you mention. This depends on how he/she choses to work.
In fact most get paid for near 1000 hours ie 155000 euro per year. I think they can afford the odd meal and sim check out of that.
The UK employed guys are probably nearer £85-£90,000 per annum but don't pay for the sim etc.They also receive an allowance against expenses, and a pension payment. Payscales do vary depending on base. Contractors rates also vary depending on if they choose to be at one base or floating.
now will you please go bother someone else, or at least keep to thread, and the facts.
In fact most get paid for near 1000 hours ie 155000 euro per year. I think they can afford the odd meal and sim check out of that.
The UK employed guys are probably nearer £85-£90,000 per annum but don't pay for the sim etc.They also receive an allowance against expenses, and a pension payment. Payscales do vary depending on base. Contractors rates also vary depending on if they choose to be at one base or floating.
now will you please go bother someone else, or at least keep to thread, and the facts.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am seriously worried that some posters are so gullible as to regurgitate the 'at least unpaid leave is better than no job' propaganda. The unpaid leave is not there to bail out a failing company and save your job from extinction - it is a typically opportunistic move by a ruthless management taking advantage of timid, ill-informed employees. This company will thrive in these times (notwithstanding O'Leary's abysmal hedging record). Ryanair will need all its current pilots and more for its continued expansion.
I speak as someone who has for a number of years tried to assist in the process of union recognition within Ryanair and have now given up because of the prevalence of halfwits within the company who are unable to recognise when they are getting shafted.
I speak as someone who has for a number of years tried to assist in the process of union recognition within Ryanair and have now given up because of the prevalence of halfwits within the company who are unable to recognise when they are getting shafted.