BMI or Jump Ship?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London
Age: 47
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMI or Jump Ship?
To all current bmi pilots,
I have been with bmi now for a long time. Its been a great place to work and sure there have always been a few things to moan about, but in toto I feel I've had a great time flying for them.
There have been no commands since 09/11, fair enough but now finaly it looked as if there was going to be some movement with these new 330's coming along next summer. All of a sudden the board have decided to defer the new A/C and all of us hoping for command courses have gone out the window for another 18 months or so (assuming we do actually get these A/C)
I became an airline pilot with a set of clear goals and one of them is to have a command. I have never felt down about my job a bmi but it is just starting to feel the goal posts are being moved around a little to often.
I know things change on a daily basis in this game but I am realy also worried for the future of bmi. We need to expand! We get so close and a the last second it all stops. Its a real shame, bmi is such a great company but bishop and the board are letting it down. We have the slots and after fighting for years for the openskies why are we not using it to its full advantage and before every man and his dog builds networks accross the pond squeezing us out! I may be to late by 2009!
So chaps and chapesses, where does this leave us? Easyjet are I believe are recruiting in Feb, Virgin or Emirates etc. We have the 320/330 on our bits of paper and plenty of hours so my Q's is, do we do it or not? Or hang around untill Bishop wants to move in a direction better for us all.
This post is purely here to find out some opinions and is not a dig at bmi what so ever, but I do want to get on with my career and I know from speaking to guys on the line, they do to!
Kind Regards...
I have been with bmi now for a long time. Its been a great place to work and sure there have always been a few things to moan about, but in toto I feel I've had a great time flying for them.
There have been no commands since 09/11, fair enough but now finaly it looked as if there was going to be some movement with these new 330's coming along next summer. All of a sudden the board have decided to defer the new A/C and all of us hoping for command courses have gone out the window for another 18 months or so (assuming we do actually get these A/C)
I became an airline pilot with a set of clear goals and one of them is to have a command. I have never felt down about my job a bmi but it is just starting to feel the goal posts are being moved around a little to often.
I know things change on a daily basis in this game but I am realy also worried for the future of bmi. We need to expand! We get so close and a the last second it all stops. Its a real shame, bmi is such a great company but bishop and the board are letting it down. We have the slots and after fighting for years for the openskies why are we not using it to its full advantage and before every man and his dog builds networks accross the pond squeezing us out! I may be to late by 2009!
So chaps and chapesses, where does this leave us? Easyjet are I believe are recruiting in Feb, Virgin or Emirates etc. We have the 320/330 on our bits of paper and plenty of hours so my Q's is, do we do it or not? Or hang around untill Bishop wants to move in a direction better for us all.
This post is purely here to find out some opinions and is not a dig at bmi what so ever, but I do want to get on with my career and I know from speaking to guys on the line, they do to!
Kind Regards...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not so sure anymore
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you think there is a strong and sustainable future for BMI and you think that the current management are genuinely interested in the same ideals of you and your colleagues then by all means stay.
The fact that you are questioning this probably means that you are unsure about certain aspects of the future. Personally my future security is of utmost importance so I would be tempted to bring the ball into my own court and join an airline where there is a known and definite(aviation definite) structure for your command prospects.
All your chat of great colleagues and good place to work sounds very similar to another thread about an airline which has been recently purchased(GB)..and by all accounts none of these guys saw it coming.
Take your future into your own hands and if you have doubts, join an airline where that doubt no longer exists...if there is such a thing!
This is by no means a dig at BMI as I know nothing about them, just responding to your doubts....be it about any airline!
The fact that you are questioning this probably means that you are unsure about certain aspects of the future. Personally my future security is of utmost importance so I would be tempted to bring the ball into my own court and join an airline where there is a known and definite(aviation definite) structure for your command prospects.
All your chat of great colleagues and good place to work sounds very similar to another thread about an airline which has been recently purchased(GB)..and by all accounts none of these guys saw it coming.
Take your future into your own hands and if you have doubts, join an airline where that doubt no longer exists...if there is such a thing!
This is by no means a dig at BMI as I know nothing about them, just responding to your doubts....be it about any airline!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: England.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A very good question bmibus. Wish I knew all, or even some, of the answers, but I don't. Nobody does!
One thing is certain, though. MB will be throwing his 51% into the ring at some point, probably sooner rather than later is my guess.
That could result in anything from no job losses to total carnage, depending who takes control of what. The command prospects are unlikely to become significantly better and could become much worse. It's a funny business, though, so I could be totally wrong.
But where else do you go? Would Easyjet be any quicker to command? Job security looks OK at present, but could change rapidly. But do you really want 30 years of loco workload? Then again, the currently running GB takeover thread is worth a read. Comments about rosters and workload might help you form an opinion. Virgin? Time to command still a problem, but could possibly change rapidly for the better. BA? Time to command probably worst of all, though job security seems the best, provided you get far enough up the ladder. As for Emirates, there are many threads on PPRuNe well worth a read! Bear in mind that those who are happy with any of these airlines are less likely to be sounding off, which means PPRuNe often gives an unbalanced picture!
One thing is certain. If you're 30 years old, as your title says, you've only got a few years left before doors everywhere close on you forever. It's now or never. You seem to be aware of that at least, unlike a lot of the ostriches at bmi.
Dare I say you should have thought about this and taken action five years ago at age 25, when bmi was well into it's downward spiral. There's time enough to make mistakes at that age and possibly still recover. That's more of a message for the 25 year olds, I guess.
Anyway, maybe I've helped, maybe not. All I can do is throw a few opinions into the mix. Good luck!
One thing is certain, though. MB will be throwing his 51% into the ring at some point, probably sooner rather than later is my guess.
That could result in anything from no job losses to total carnage, depending who takes control of what. The command prospects are unlikely to become significantly better and could become much worse. It's a funny business, though, so I could be totally wrong.
But where else do you go? Would Easyjet be any quicker to command? Job security looks OK at present, but could change rapidly. But do you really want 30 years of loco workload? Then again, the currently running GB takeover thread is worth a read. Comments about rosters and workload might help you form an opinion. Virgin? Time to command still a problem, but could possibly change rapidly for the better. BA? Time to command probably worst of all, though job security seems the best, provided you get far enough up the ladder. As for Emirates, there are many threads on PPRuNe well worth a read! Bear in mind that those who are happy with any of these airlines are less likely to be sounding off, which means PPRuNe often gives an unbalanced picture!
One thing is certain. If you're 30 years old, as your title says, you've only got a few years left before doors everywhere close on you forever. It's now or never. You seem to be aware of that at least, unlike a lot of the ostriches at bmi.
Dare I say you should have thought about this and taken action five years ago at age 25, when bmi was well into it's downward spiral. There's time enough to make mistakes at that age and possibly still recover. That's more of a message for the 25 year olds, I guess.
Anyway, maybe I've helped, maybe not. All I can do is throw a few opinions into the mix. Good luck!
Last edited by acbus1; 2nd Nov 2007 at 15:10.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Grand Com f'Ort
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you're 30 years old, as your title says, you've only got a few years left before doors everywhere close on you forever
A very different picture for occupants of the better side of the house at any age.
Conslusions may be drawn from that!
(I sit either side, sometimes because the job demands it, sometimes because I've forgotten what I'm meant to be doing!).
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Im in the same position as you, if you have waited this long another year at max wont killl your career off.
The latest retraction of orders is the second biggest kick ive had from bmi since getting a dear John letter in nov 2001 but The Bish's put option matures end of 08, Im not saying youll win but i dont think youll lose by staying another year, i like everyone else who have stuck it out have been let down but look at the long game!
regards
Keepitlit
Im in the same position as you, if you have waited this long another year at max wont killl your career off.
The latest retraction of orders is the second biggest kick ive had from bmi since getting a dear John letter in nov 2001 but The Bish's put option matures end of 08, Im not saying youll win but i dont think youll lose by staying another year, i like everyone else who have stuck it out have been let down but look at the long game!
regards
Keepitlit
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get out of the airline business. Go check out Netjets Europe - with your hours and experience you would probably get a command sooner than later. You would not wait many years (maybe a year or two max) to upgrade and then you would get instant route variety and a set schedule. Say goodbye to those boring, monotonous routes. Plus, they pay pretty well. Just a consideration.
Check this out:
http://www.netjetseurope.com/data/en...p_careers.html
Good luck.
Check this out:
http://www.netjetseurope.com/data/en...p_careers.html
Good luck.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not if you're a family man!
Spend Six days galavanting around Europe/the world. Give me the predictable roster any day! Unless being beck'n'call on the end of the phone ticks the boxes for you.
Spend Six days galavanting around Europe/the world. Give me the predictable roster any day! Unless being beck'n'call on the end of the phone ticks the boxes for you.
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But do you really want 30 years of loco workload?
I probably fly more sectors than them....
It is a myth that lo-co pilots fly more than anyone else.
The few airlines where pilots have been flying substantially less than this will not exist in 30 years so one way or another, every pilot (except perhaps some VIP/VVIP corporate pilots) ought to prepare themselves to fly more than they did 5 or 10 years ago whatever or whoever they work for...
I believe the exact converse of acbus1 in the sense that I don't believe SMB will either sell or be forced to sell his airline in the near future.
Things are just getting interesting again for bmi.
That said second guessing the strategic aims of bmi management is a bit like trying to predict the behaviour of liquid helium.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Courchevel
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stay and take the gamble bmibus. The airline will soon be in different hands due to the exit of Mr Bishop and then things could change quickly. My money is on the Lufthansa people as they've already got a jackboot in the door. There's really not much better out there at the moment due to the uncertainty in the world (high oil price, middle east uncertainties plus open-skies looming for LHR etc.)
Best of luck,
The Count
Best of luck,
The Count
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: A town called malice
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The grass is always greener.....I'd stay put if i were you. With BA and Virgin you would be waiting a hell of a lot longer for command. With Easyjet and Co you would get a quick command and be fed up of the place within 2 years. And whats all this about doors closing in front of you when you reach your thirties?never heard such rubbish in all my life!Sure you have at least 30 more years to be a skipper,whats the rush!I bet ther are plenty of captains out there who would be only too happy to swop places with you.
Best of luck whatever you decide.
Best of luck whatever you decide.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: England.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some misinterpretation of my post is worthy of clarification.
My post was referring to ability to move from one airline to another, not age vs command promotion. RTFQ.
I don't know the exact cut-off ages for recruitment by Easyjet, BA, Virgin, Emirates etc, but I do know that the older you are, the closer you get to those cut-offs.
Anyone have any of the cut-off ages? Please post here, if you do.
I wasn't referring to flying hours. My concern would be in relation to many of the other factors leading to chronic fatigue - sectors, turnround times, roster patterns etc.
....and posting on PPRuNe.
.......whats all this about doors closing in front of you when you reach your thirties?never heard such rubbish in all my life!Sure you have at least 30 more years to be a skipper,whats the rush!
I don't know the exact cut-off ages for recruitment by Easyjet, BA, Virgin, Emirates etc, but I do know that the older you are, the closer you get to those cut-offs.
Anyone have any of the cut-off ages? Please post here, if you do.
It is a myth that lo-co pilots fly more than anyone else.
......I work for a lo-co and my mates at BA (SH and LH) and Virgin fly more hours than I do.
......I work for a lo-co and my mates at BA (SH and LH) and Virgin fly more hours than I do.
....and posting on PPRuNe.
I am ex bmi and now easyJet at BRS.
It is a myth that I now work harder. I fly close to 900 hours a year, but my typical flying hours per day is close to 6, this means that on average I have worked 13.5 days per month since joining 4 years ago, this equals close to 75 hours per month = 900. Or if days off are your thing then I get an average of 17 days per month free of actually flying. I am at home almost every night with very occasional night stops, an average of less than 1 per month.
When you hear moaners stating that they are working 100 hours per month, then this means that after 9 months they would have 3 months free of flying, fantastic, off skiing!
I have spoken to crewing a handful of times and it is unusual to be called on standby - less than 30% of them over the 4 years. When you do speak to crewing they are polite and helpful, something that I think would be a new experience for any bmi pilot. I understand that bmi crewing are exactly how they were a few years ago.
My rosters are set in stone and leave booking is open and fair. Financially I am much better off and with the expansion plan that the company has you will probably have the oportunity to get a command asessment within 2 years maximum, possibly less with your Airbus experience.
If I were you I would sit tight to see how it all falls out after Open Skies next year. At your age with your experience another year will have no bearing on you being able to join easyJet.
Don't believe most of the bad things you hear about the Orange empire.
It is a myth that I now work harder. I fly close to 900 hours a year, but my typical flying hours per day is close to 6, this means that on average I have worked 13.5 days per month since joining 4 years ago, this equals close to 75 hours per month = 900. Or if days off are your thing then I get an average of 17 days per month free of actually flying. I am at home almost every night with very occasional night stops, an average of less than 1 per month.
When you hear moaners stating that they are working 100 hours per month, then this means that after 9 months they would have 3 months free of flying, fantastic, off skiing!
I have spoken to crewing a handful of times and it is unusual to be called on standby - less than 30% of them over the 4 years. When you do speak to crewing they are polite and helpful, something that I think would be a new experience for any bmi pilot. I understand that bmi crewing are exactly how they were a few years ago.
My rosters are set in stone and leave booking is open and fair. Financially I am much better off and with the expansion plan that the company has you will probably have the oportunity to get a command asessment within 2 years maximum, possibly less with your Airbus experience.
If I were you I would sit tight to see how it all falls out after Open Skies next year. At your age with your experience another year will have no bearing on you being able to join easyJet.
Don't believe most of the bad things you hear about the Orange empire.
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Politically, I can't see that HMG would ever let Lufthansa into LHR and gain the presence they would if they bought bmi.
Whatever the bit of paper says, that would be a coup d'etat for LH.
But I personally can't see SMB giving up 50 years of endeavour to the Germans.
Personally, I've got nothing against LH whatsoever, but those in the corridors of power at Westminster and airline HQ's probably do.
PS: 264 posts in 8 years...an average of ~3/month.
Whatever the bit of paper says, that would be a coup d'etat for LH.
But I personally can't see SMB giving up 50 years of endeavour to the Germans.
Personally, I've got nothing against LH whatsoever, but those in the corridors of power at Westminster and airline HQ's probably do.
PS: 264 posts in 8 years...an average of ~3/month.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London
Age: 47
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys and girls for all your comments, some realy good points here. It will just be interesting to see what happens over the next few months. I just hope the company takes steps towards being the company which it should be.
Keep your points coming.
Kind regards...
Keep your points coming.
Kind regards...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the dust
Age: 46
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Purely as someone from the outside looking in, I could use a job so by all means jump ship.
I'd be inclined to say stay at least until the dust settles on the BMED business. I suspect a whole load of them will run away run away when they get their new 'improved' roster!
Oh for a job with BMI (I had my interview whisked from under my feet with a weeks notcie - gutted!)
I'd be inclined to say stay at least until the dust settles on the BMED business. I suspect a whole load of them will run away run away when they get their new 'improved' roster!
Oh for a job with BMI (I had my interview whisked from under my feet with a weeks notcie - gutted!)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If Command is your goal then don't stay in companies that have had no growth in years.I think i am correct in saying that BMI have not had any promotions since 9/11.That's a very very long time in avaition.
What i dont get is how BMI announce with great pride a whole bunch of 330's then 6 weeks later defer them.Something is going on!!
What i dont get is how BMI announce with great pride a whole bunch of 330's then 6 weeks later defer them.Something is going on!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With reference to any potential sale of SMBs controlling stake. Article in yesterdays papers about LHR and slots stated that BMI has 11% of the total. SMB seems to have been playing the long game for years waiting to release the huge potential of this asset. BMI seems to have just plodded along and not made the most of this goldmine, so why not?. The same article stated that Lufthansa have first call to buy SMBs stake at £250m. Given the current frenzy over slots at LHR (£5m/£10m/£20m per pair depending on which paper you read), I don't think he's getting a good deal for his stake. What that suggests to me is that BMIs future when a sale of the company does happen will involve a big change in how those slots are used. What can't be predicted is if that will be positive for the crews and their futures or if they slim down the worst routes and someone else uses them for long haul etc.
No axe to grind just a view from the touchline of a game thats well into extra time already!
No axe to grind just a view from the touchline of a game thats well into extra time already!