BMI Mainline T&Cs
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Ok ok, this is getting a little confusing now!?!?
Is this thread about BMI mainline t+c's????
Im starting to struggle with who is who? Who has upset who? Who is racist? What Gb has to do with BMI t+c's? Who jack the ripper really was? Why do aliens always do anal probes?.......
Point made, time for me to return to little hole in the ground untill some one actually posts the "T+C's"
Is this thread about BMI mainline t+c's????
Im starting to struggle with who is who? Who has upset who? Who is racist? What Gb has to do with BMI t+c's? Who jack the ripper really was? Why do aliens always do anal probes?.......
Point made, time for me to return to little hole in the ground untill some one actually posts the "T+C's"
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Lets Move On!!!
Hello,
Just to keep everybody happy. I am in the holding pool with bmi to start soon. To make an end to the useless discussion about English Airlines, I AM DUTCH
and bmi are inviting many people from Holland . Getting in is a completely different thing, you need to speak the lingo and be able to adjust to an local Airline plus VICE VERSA!!
Please can we now return to the original thread and get on with it.
I am looking forward hearing anything about bmi payscale + T/C's!!
THX
Just to keep everybody happy. I am in the holding pool with bmi to start soon. To make an end to the useless discussion about English Airlines, I AM DUTCH
and bmi are inviting many people from Holland . Getting in is a completely different thing, you need to speak the lingo and be able to adjust to an local Airline plus VICE VERSA!!Please can we now return to the original thread and get on with it.
I am looking forward hearing anything about bmi payscale + T/C's!!
THX
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From Easyrider
"Hello again OneDaySoon!
You must be quite excited at the prospect of 5 new 330's?
Bet the waiting list has shortened a helluva lot
"
Hi Easy,
It was great news to hear, major changes and expansion ahead!
I wont be getting anywhere near the 330's for a while yet but I certainly wont be complaining at the 320/321's. Not much change in the waiting lists as of yet but fingers crossed eh?!
"Hello again OneDaySoon!
You must be quite excited at the prospect of 5 new 330's?
Bet the waiting list has shortened a helluva lot
" Hi Easy,
It was great news to hear, major changes and expansion ahead!
I wont be getting anywhere near the 330's for a while yet but I certainly wont be complaining at the 320/321's. Not much change in the waiting lists as of yet but fingers crossed eh?!
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Could somebody post a reply to the original question. ie t & c's for bmi, primarily:
- F/o salary package
- time to command
- time to transfer 320 to 330 (this one is important to myself and a number of others as could go to 330 now, but in overseas airline)
- number of hours/month, night stops/month etc. -don't mind night stops!
Any help much appreciated. Thank you.
- F/o salary package
- time to command
- time to transfer 320 to 330 (this one is important to myself and a number of others as could go to 330 now, but in overseas airline)
- number of hours/month, night stops/month etc. -don't mind night stops!
Any help much appreciated. Thank you.
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Hope this helps
F/o salary package starts at 39K plus London weighing so about 42K plus flight pay in around £2 per hour.
Salary is on an increasing scale and has a good jump in year 2 with increments up to year 14.
An 7/8 year FO is on around £50K
Time to command is an unknown quanity at the min until order dates of the new aircraft are confirmed (as it stands at present we have not had a command since pre 911 Longest SFO's are in nearly 10 years but dont judge it by that, things are finally starting to move).(you pays your monies and take your chances, some stuck to bthe bet and see it out).
We have at a guess around 70+ SFO's with min 6 years who are waiting.
We hear the new order needs more than 70 so things look set to move quickly next year! and they intend to continue growing.
Time to transfer 320 to 330 again until order dates are known we have to wait but the ideal situation the company would like is for everyone to be cross qualified, although a while away its not out of reach.
number of hours/month, night stops/month etc. -don't mind night stops!
Night stops are about to increase with the merge with BMED and there will be plenty to go around.
Flying hours contracted to 740 per year, above that overtime is triggered
My honest view is that its not the best about but nowhere near the worst, its my 3rd airline and as the saying goes if the glove fits!
rgds
Keepitlit
F/o salary package starts at 39K plus London weighing so about 42K plus flight pay in around £2 per hour.
Salary is on an increasing scale and has a good jump in year 2 with increments up to year 14.
An 7/8 year FO is on around £50K
Time to command is an unknown quanity at the min until order dates of the new aircraft are confirmed (as it stands at present we have not had a command since pre 911 Longest SFO's are in nearly 10 years but dont judge it by that, things are finally starting to move).(you pays your monies and take your chances, some stuck to bthe bet and see it out).
We have at a guess around 70+ SFO's with min 6 years who are waiting.
We hear the new order needs more than 70 so things look set to move quickly next year! and they intend to continue growing.
Time to transfer 320 to 330 again until order dates are known we have to wait but the ideal situation the company would like is for everyone to be cross qualified, although a while away its not out of reach.
number of hours/month, night stops/month etc. -don't mind night stops!
Night stops are about to increase with the merge with BMED and there will be plenty to go around.
Flying hours contracted to 740 per year, above that overtime is triggered
My honest view is that its not the best about but nowhere near the worst, its my 3rd airline and as the saying goes if the glove fits!
rgds
Keepitlit
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BMI is a very careful company which has ploughed a slow furrow in the industry but has stayed in business. Being a private company it never takes chances and seemingly has missed many opportunities where it has had a presence at airfields where others have shown it the way. EMA, LBA and BHX are prime examples. Its business style is to sell its assets to fund its expansion.
The looming question is will MB sell or not, he is now 65 and rumours are strong that he will soon. When he goes, so does a safe pair of hands.
The company has been held back by very poor musical chair management and still has too many 'inbred' operational mangers who have little understanding of people management or communication. The training department suffers from a very lack lustre management with many unsuitable senior trainers who create a bad atmosphere within the company.
The looming question is will MB sell or not, he is now 65 and rumours are strong that he will soon. When he goes, so does a safe pair of hands.
The company has been held back by very poor musical chair management and still has too many 'inbred' operational mangers who have little understanding of people management or communication. The training department suffers from a very lack lustre management with many unsuitable senior trainers who create a bad atmosphere within the company.
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LLanfairpg,
Whats that got to do with the flying side of things!
Im mot going down the slagging route but
Your not held at gun point to stay, if you dont like it!!!!
As I said before, if your not worried about the politics and are happy that your paid on time every month its not the worst by far.
rgds
Keepitlit
Whats that got to do with the flying side of things!
Im mot going down the slagging route but
Your not held at gun point to stay, if you dont like it!!!!
As I said before, if your not worried about the politics and are happy that your paid on time every month its not the worst by far.
rgds
Keepitlit
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foreign pilots at KLM
A reply to Field in Sight post.
A conservative estimate would put the number of foreign pilots at KLM around 10% (total pilot group +2500). Their date of hire range from 1987 to around 1995. A number of these pilots have seniority to be wide-body captains. The majority of these pilots speak dutch. Many live abroad, as far afield as western Canada, and South Africa, but everyone is based out of Schiphol.
A conservative estimate would put the number of foreign pilots at KLM around 10% (total pilot group +2500). Their date of hire range from 1987 to around 1995. A number of these pilots have seniority to be wide-body captains. The majority of these pilots speak dutch. Many live abroad, as far afield as western Canada, and South Africa, but everyone is based out of Schiphol.
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Keepitlit,
thanks for the info,
could you tell me average take home F/O London with pension/flight pay et al,
also do bmi have a Final Salary pension?
Thanks for the help!!
JJB
thanks for the info,
could you tell me average take home F/O London with pension/flight pay et al,
also do bmi have a Final Salary pension?
Thanks for the help!!
JJB
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You asked about BMI training and management styles
I spent over twenty years working for BMI mainly as a captain and as you would expect they seemed to me to be about average for the industry overall. The whole thing is held together by Sir Michael who has an amazing grip of the industry and steers his company remoetly. I never met a manager who had a management qualification indeed such would have been seen as very suspect. Managers generally stuck to the hard man approach and frequently seemed to use a what can we get away with rather than what is fair method of decision making. They frequently seemed to spend more time concealing or polishing their activities for the benefit of other managers rather than doing their stated jobs.
Training is excellent once away from the conversion centre which uses a weird second party training firm in their own training centre for initial training but BMI training captains thereafter
Terms and conditions were excellent but have been drawn back rather recently with pension changes and the like
Overall you could do much worse for a long term decision but if you can get BA or Virgin do
Training is excellent once away from the conversion centre which uses a weird second party training firm in their own training centre for initial training but BMI training captains thereafter
Terms and conditions were excellent but have been drawn back rather recently with pension changes and the like
Overall you could do much worse for a long term decision but if you can get BA or Virgin do
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Whats that got to do with the flying side of things!
The option of leaving if you do not like it is not available to everyone but having said that the BMI pilot workforce is mainly composed those who have failed to get into BA and Virgin, those who are about to apply and those who are about to retire. The first mentioned can usually be recognised by making statements like, " if you do not like it you can always leave".
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bmi motivation
It is true that few of those in bmi would not consider a move but most many have other motivations which retain them
Some wish to continue working at a location of their choice, others want an early command possibly because of age to maximise earning during a limited career
Most of us were in bmi because they offered us a job and treated us fairly, certainly that applied to me
I was never happy with the standard of management or the motivation of managers decision making
Most managers worked hard at their jobs, not always with the deserved results. Some were merely self seeking in the decision making but mostly these were soon sussed and dumped back in the pool or sent to Baby
An airline that gets and keeps that many pilots over fifty years must be doing something right Generally problems are resolved well short of industrial action although it has been threatened a few times over the last 20 years. a few legal cases got to the court steps and one went to an indsutrial tribunal which they lost big style but mostly the problems were avoided by the top ranks Anyway they pay my pension regularly and I am not embarrased to say I worked for them. How many airlines can be spoken of in this way
The standard of training was excellent and unstinting, the trainers were highly commited and grossly overworked People with problems they were dealt with sensitively and fairly Crewing were the usual mix of decent folks and others using all sorts of fiddles to get the job done if you did not watch them Often partiality was available to pals
A demoted captain who spent years off sick returning for short periods as the end of his sick pay neared eventually retiring on pension. I never detected any pressure on him to leave or return to work if he did not want to, mostly the rest of us did not regret his abscence
Some wish to continue working at a location of their choice, others want an early command possibly because of age to maximise earning during a limited career
Most of us were in bmi because they offered us a job and treated us fairly, certainly that applied to me
I was never happy with the standard of management or the motivation of managers decision making
Most managers worked hard at their jobs, not always with the deserved results. Some were merely self seeking in the decision making but mostly these were soon sussed and dumped back in the pool or sent to Baby
An airline that gets and keeps that many pilots over fifty years must be doing something right Generally problems are resolved well short of industrial action although it has been threatened a few times over the last 20 years. a few legal cases got to the court steps and one went to an indsutrial tribunal which they lost big style but mostly the problems were avoided by the top ranks Anyway they pay my pension regularly and I am not embarrased to say I worked for them. How many airlines can be spoken of in this way
The standard of training was excellent and unstinting, the trainers were highly commited and grossly overworked People with problems they were dealt with sensitively and fairly Crewing were the usual mix of decent folks and others using all sorts of fiddles to get the job done if you did not watch them Often partiality was available to pals
A demoted captain who spent years off sick returning for short periods as the end of his sick pay neared eventually retiring on pension. I never detected any pressure on him to leave or return to work if he did not want to, mostly the rest of us did not regret his abscence
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Ottman wrote:
"A conservative estimate would put the number of foreign pilots at KLM around 10% (total pilot group +2500). Their date of hire range from 1987 to around 1995. A number of these pilots have seniority to be wide-body captains. The majority of these pilots speak dutch. Many live abroad, as far afield as western Canada, and South Africa, but everyone is based out of Schiphol."
Any idea how many Dutch commercial pilots are unemployed? Any idea how many of these will never be able to fly at your airline which only allows their own graduates or foreigners when ever it suits them? To be honest with you, your job should have been given to a real Dutch man before your airline even considers hiring foreigners. It sickens me.
"A conservative estimate would put the number of foreign pilots at KLM around 10% (total pilot group +2500). Their date of hire range from 1987 to around 1995. A number of these pilots have seniority to be wide-body captains. The majority of these pilots speak dutch. Many live abroad, as far afield as western Canada, and South Africa, but everyone is based out of Schiphol."
Any idea how many Dutch commercial pilots are unemployed? Any idea how many of these will never be able to fly at your airline which only allows their own graduates or foreigners when ever it suits them? To be honest with you, your job should have been given to a real Dutch man before your airline even considers hiring foreigners. It sickens me.
.
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Soullimbo, LOL.
I realize this comes from extreme frustration, but welcome to the real world! My son is currently going through the KLS (his mother is a tall stunning Dutch woman), and his outlook is far from certain, luckily he has his age going for him. There are no guarantees for a job at KLM or anywhere for him, anymore.
I think it is close to folly to train as a pilot in the Netherlands (the only reason my son is doing it, is because he was accepted into the KLS). This is especially true if you come outside of the scope of the big training centers. At the end of this year there will be over 300 ex-KLS students sitting at home, add to this the other training programs (I have heard numbers in excess of 400 from those), and I can guarantee you that these pilots will never, ever be absorbed into the Dutch aviation scene. Regardless of the numbers of hated foreigners like myself. The prognosis at KLM is that we won’t need anybody for the next three years. Martinair won’t ever be hiring any new pilots (all new pilots will be sourced through KLM), Transavia is only allowed to grow at the behest of Air France/KLM’s needs. This leaves Arke fly and I am not sure what their ultimate size will be. This is the Dutch market.
If people bought into the glossy brochures at all these training institutes, and the smooth talk from the commissioned salesman at the schools, I feel for you. It is near criminal that these schools are allowed to keep pumping people into this market. All it gets you is a debt as big as buying a house (without the tax write-off and the roof over your head).
Currently I fly for a French airline, not one of KLM’s share is in the hands of any Dutchman. The lot of my airline is in the hands of these “foreigners”. They have been great to me, and I still have over 10 years left as a wide-body captain with KLM.
I wish you the best. Maybe voting for Wilders will solve your issues. In the meantime send out your resume to all these foreign airlines, in the hope that they are willing to employ an economic refugee from the Netherlands.
And if you ever make it to the interview board at KLM I will enjoy our conversation! Personality is something that weighs very heavily these days, I think it is time for you to do some work in that area.
O.
I realize this comes from extreme frustration, but welcome to the real world! My son is currently going through the KLS (his mother is a tall stunning Dutch woman), and his outlook is far from certain, luckily he has his age going for him. There are no guarantees for a job at KLM or anywhere for him, anymore.
I think it is close to folly to train as a pilot in the Netherlands (the only reason my son is doing it, is because he was accepted into the KLS). This is especially true if you come outside of the scope of the big training centers. At the end of this year there will be over 300 ex-KLS students sitting at home, add to this the other training programs (I have heard numbers in excess of 400 from those), and I can guarantee you that these pilots will never, ever be absorbed into the Dutch aviation scene. Regardless of the numbers of hated foreigners like myself. The prognosis at KLM is that we won’t need anybody for the next three years. Martinair won’t ever be hiring any new pilots (all new pilots will be sourced through KLM), Transavia is only allowed to grow at the behest of Air France/KLM’s needs. This leaves Arke fly and I am not sure what their ultimate size will be. This is the Dutch market.
If people bought into the glossy brochures at all these training institutes, and the smooth talk from the commissioned salesman at the schools, I feel for you. It is near criminal that these schools are allowed to keep pumping people into this market. All it gets you is a debt as big as buying a house (without the tax write-off and the roof over your head).
Currently I fly for a French airline, not one of KLM’s share is in the hands of any Dutchman. The lot of my airline is in the hands of these “foreigners”. They have been great to me, and I still have over 10 years left as a wide-body captain with KLM.
I wish you the best. Maybe voting for Wilders will solve your issues. In the meantime send out your resume to all these foreign airlines, in the hope that they are willing to employ an economic refugee from the Netherlands.
And if you ever make it to the interview board at KLM I will enjoy our conversation! Personality is something that weighs very heavily these days, I think it is time for you to do some work in that area.
O.