What is your take-home pay at the end of the month?
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Why would anybody want to be an airline pilot?
Luck is everything. I don't think there was much between me and my contemporaries at my flying school. One or two have done extremely well and lead football player lifestyles. On the other hand some never even used their commercial licence. Very sad.
But in short to answer your question:
Because if luck is on your side as a middle of the road type of guy you can have a truly fantastic lifestyle. I accept things may be slightly more of a struggle now than 10 years ago but the potential is still there with a few compromises.
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“But to compare an airline pilot to a medical practitioner”  
Yes, Doctors are really smart. Only last week I went to see a Doctor who prescribed me cream for my face. When I opened the instructions it said in big bold red writing ‘Do not apply to your face’. Very smart!
I think the glory days for many Doctors will be coming to a very abrupt end, especially with the cuts that will be made in the NHS.
Yes, Doctors are really smart. Only last week I went to see a Doctor who prescribed me cream for my face. When I opened the instructions it said in big bold red writing ‘Do not apply to your face’. Very smart!
I think the glory days for many Doctors will be coming to a very abrupt end, especially with the cuts that will be made in the NHS.
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Hello,
I don't think you should compare a airline pilot to a GP but rather an airline Captain to a GP.
How long does it take to train a person up to a GP? 7 years maybe??
How long does it take to train a person up to B737 Captain? 7 years..maybe more!!
Both occupations are no more important that the other...if you mess-up people die simple as that. However the financial rewards are a different story.
P1
I don't think you should compare a airline pilot to a GP but rather an airline Captain to a GP.
How long does it take to train a person up to a GP? 7 years maybe??
How long does it take to train a person up to B737 Captain? 7 years..maybe more!!
Both occupations are no more important that the other...if you mess-up people die simple as that. However the financial rewards are a different story.
P1
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Why dont you quote GROSS ANNUAL instead of net monthly. the differences are entirely dependant on so many variable. You are just doing what the unions do when looking for sympathy and as professional I would have expected better. by the way any subject to UK tax and getting £6500 per month net assuming all pay is taxable is earning about £125000 per annum gross. Not too bad is it?
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Why dont you quote GROSS ANNUAL instead of net monthly.
Variables:
Tax
Flight duty allowances
Tax
Sector pay
Tax
Hourly pay
Tax
Deductions
Tax
Overtime
Tax
Training pay
Tax
Allowances (other than flight duty pay)
Tax
Deductions
Tax
Investment schemes
Tax
I think you get the idea.
Take home pay is really the best indicator or T&C's. Although extra info regarding accommodation, pensions, insurance etc etc would be useful.
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I don't think you should compare a airline pilot to a GP but rather an airline Captain to a GP.
How long does it take to train a person up to a GP? 7 years maybe??
How long does it take to train a person up to B737 Captain? 7 years..maybe more!!
Both occupations are no more important that the other...if you mess-up people die simple as that. However the financial rewards are a different story.
How long does it take to train a person up to a GP? 7 years maybe??
How long does it take to train a person up to B737 Captain? 7 years..maybe more!!
Both occupations are no more important that the other...if you mess-up people die simple as that. However the financial rewards are a different story.
You can train to become an airline pilot in, what, 18 months? At that point you are a first officer and are qualified to fly the aircraft yourself in the event of an emergency. If you then fly, say, 800 hours a year you could reasonably expect to become a captain, with a bit of luck and a following wind, in 4 or 5 years?
To become a GP, you need top grades at school, which you don't for commercial flying, you then go to med school for at least 5 years (many do 6). That gives you limited registration and qualifies you to practice under supervision for two years. If you wish to become a GP you then have to undergo a minimum further three years' training. At that point, an absolute minimum of 10 years after entering med school you are viewed as a very wet behind the ears newly qualified GP with a lot to learn. As an example, in my small rural practice we are very wary of hiring such inexperienced GPs as locums because they have to practice here so much on their own and under such pressure. GPs are not reckoned to be really seasoned until they are at least five years qualified (as GPs), so, say, a minimum of fifteen years after entering med school.
I don't have any position on what airline pilots should earn becasue they carry enormous responsibility and are under enormous pressure, but in educational / qualification terms GP and airline captain are not comparable.
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Being an airline pilot requires a skill set quite different from any other occupation; academic qualifications or time needed to qualify are irrelevant.
Academic qualifications simply aren't required (14 O & A levels and an Honours degree doesn't mean you can handle a V1 cut and get it back on the ground in one piece) and the mental effort expended in a 4 hour simulator detail can't be compared to a classroom or any other learning environment.
As for my take home pay, that's between me, payroll and the tax man. Unlike many pilots these days, I'm well and properly renumerated, and every once in a while, by golly I earn my money
Academic qualifications simply aren't required (14 O & A levels and an Honours degree doesn't mean you can handle a V1 cut and get it back on the ground in one piece) and the mental effort expended in a 4 hour simulator detail can't be compared to a classroom or any other learning environment.
As for my take home pay, that's between me, payroll and the tax man. Unlike many pilots these days, I'm well and properly renumerated, and every once in a while, by golly I earn my money
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Net Pay/Gross Pay
Surely, the whole purpose of this thread is comparative - to give an idea of what different airlines pay. Its interesting to know that if you are a FO on 320's in Germany, you'd get X euros, whereas if you were a FO on 320's in Spain, you'd get Y euros. But to compare, you really need to compare "apples with apples".
So the figures quoted should first be "normalised" - i.e. those that would be paid to the average pilot - so you exclude training cost repayments and anything special that affects you and only you.
Next, they should be gross. Why? Because everybody's tax situation is different - here's just 3 examples -
- you pay less tax if you have a wife and 8 kids than you do if you are a bachelor.
- you pay more tax in the Scandinavian countries than you do in the UK - but you get a better social safety net.
- some countries (the Excited States in particular) allow sizeable interest deductions to reduce taxes.
There are so many variables in individual State's Tax Codes that comparison is not possible - that's why it makes sense to work only of gross figures so a true comparison can be made.
OD
So the figures quoted should first be "normalised" - i.e. those that would be paid to the average pilot - so you exclude training cost repayments and anything special that affects you and only you.
Next, they should be gross. Why? Because everybody's tax situation is different - here's just 3 examples -
- you pay less tax if you have a wife and 8 kids than you do if you are a bachelor.
- you pay more tax in the Scandinavian countries than you do in the UK - but you get a better social safety net.
- some countries (the Excited States in particular) allow sizeable interest deductions to reduce taxes.
There are so many variables in individual State's Tax Codes that comparison is not possible - that's why it makes sense to work only of gross figures so a true comparison can be made.
OD
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Always the same discussion...
Know it very well,because my wife is a GP (not in the UK)!
1.)It only takes 18months to become an airline pilot and six years for your medical degree-> well,a day at uni, were you are for a few hours a day, isnt comparable to pilot school,half of a students year is leisuretime.I dont know about you,but since i have started, there was no holiday or sundays and NO 2hours listening only a day......i dont know many pilots finishing their ATPL in 18 months.Most of the quick guys i know were 24months in school...
2.) Technically you can fail 50 exams( of course not always the same one,the same subject has to be finished after 4 attempst,and even then under sp.circumstances another attempt will be granted-> A lough for a pilot, do one bad sim and then onother and you know where you will be...
3.) As a med student you can finish when you want 5,6,7 or more years try again,fail try again, there is no time pressure
4)pilots dont need such high qualifications....look at the majors or ab initios programs...pilots are evalueted the whole life,every company change means a new asessment (maths,geography,general knowledge,apt.testing),even if you apply as a supervisor GP you just have a small interview and you dont have to know what sin of 45deg is!
5) responsibilities> as a doctor there is always enough time,even in the biggest emergency to think 5 seconds without any actions-> not in our profession(V1 cut was already mentioned)
.or you can shift responsibility-> call surgeon,cardiac specialist,or get second opinion what to do
6) skills->A GP needs at least just a good knowledge (please dont understand this as an assault!) but a pilot needs to have a good combination of many skills-> hand eye cord.,workload management etc.
Just as said i really honor all GPs out there,but many people out there dont have an understanding what pilots do in front there
Last but not least..The situation for GPs is (currently) good in the UK,but look at central europe,my wife has on average a 70hours week, our fiirst officers in my company fly 70 hours a month and get more then she does,even the guys next to me are 10 years younger!
Know it very well,because my wife is a GP (not in the UK)!
1.)It only takes 18months to become an airline pilot and six years for your medical degree-> well,a day at uni, were you are for a few hours a day, isnt comparable to pilot school,half of a students year is leisuretime.I dont know about you,but since i have started, there was no holiday or sundays and NO 2hours listening only a day......i dont know many pilots finishing their ATPL in 18 months.Most of the quick guys i know were 24months in school...
2.) Technically you can fail 50 exams( of course not always the same one,the same subject has to be finished after 4 attempst,and even then under sp.circumstances another attempt will be granted-> A lough for a pilot, do one bad sim and then onother and you know where you will be...
3.) As a med student you can finish when you want 5,6,7 or more years try again,fail try again, there is no time pressure
4)pilots dont need such high qualifications....look at the majors or ab initios programs...pilots are evalueted the whole life,every company change means a new asessment (maths,geography,general knowledge,apt.testing),even if you apply as a supervisor GP you just have a small interview and you dont have to know what sin of 45deg is!
5) responsibilities> as a doctor there is always enough time,even in the biggest emergency to think 5 seconds without any actions-> not in our profession(V1 cut was already mentioned)
.or you can shift responsibility-> call surgeon,cardiac specialist,or get second opinion what to do
6) skills->A GP needs at least just a good knowledge (please dont understand this as an assault!) but a pilot needs to have a good combination of many skills-> hand eye cord.,workload management etc.
Just as said i really honor all GPs out there,but many people out there dont have an understanding what pilots do in front there
Last but not least..The situation for GPs is (currently) good in the UK,but look at central europe,my wife has on average a 70hours week, our fiirst officers in my company fly 70 hours a month and get more then she does,even the guys next to me are 10 years younger!
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You know you got it good though, when they make computer games modelling (not by all means 100%) your daily job and there are people spending their free time trying to live in your image (albeit on a PC) and emulate your work!!
well,a day at uni, were you are for a few hours a day, isnt comparable to pilot school,half of a students year is leisuretime
A few hours a day wont get you a degree in a proper dicipline! likewise if you treat half your year as leisuretime you arent likely to graduate!!
2.) Technically you can fail 50 exams( of course not always the same one,the same subject has to be finished after 4 attempst,and even then under sp.circumstances another attempt will be granted-> A lough for a pilot, do one bad sim and then onother and you know where you will be...
Well, fail an exam/get crap mark...will reflect on your degree class...which ultimately can make you unemployable and unable to progress academically! There is as much to lose by failing a module exam as there is an ATPL exam...i dont see the difference here. At good univerisities and in other "real" subjects, fail one, you can try again but is capped at 40%...fail after the retake and you get chucked off the course or must resit the year.
Pilot studies is more vocational than theoretical.
Im not belittling pilots at all (in fact, you are my heroes) but dont underestimate and simplify university! An ATPL does not equal a degree!
well,a day at uni, were you are for a few hours a day, isnt comparable to pilot school,half of a students year is leisuretime
A few hours a day wont get you a degree in a proper dicipline! likewise if you treat half your year as leisuretime you arent likely to graduate!!
2.) Technically you can fail 50 exams( of course not always the same one,the same subject has to be finished after 4 attempst,and even then under sp.circumstances another attempt will be granted-> A lough for a pilot, do one bad sim and then onother and you know where you will be...
Well, fail an exam/get crap mark...will reflect on your degree class...which ultimately can make you unemployable and unable to progress academically! There is as much to lose by failing a module exam as there is an ATPL exam...i dont see the difference here. At good univerisities and in other "real" subjects, fail one, you can try again but is capped at 40%...fail after the retake and you get chucked off the course or must resit the year.
Pilot studies is more vocational than theoretical.
Im not belittling pilots at all (in fact, you are my heroes) but dont underestimate and simplify university! An ATPL does not equal a degree!
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Hi
I agree that in educational terms that an ATPL does not equal a degree as Barden says an airline pilot requires a totally different skill set. However just because you have an honours degree does not mean you will find a CPL/IR fzn ATPL a walk in the park!!!
In actual fact, financial costs aside, I would say that the ordinary man in the street would find a degree more attainable than a CPL/IR fzn ATPL. Not everyone is cut out to be a captain of an airliner.
Anyway, think we better get back to the topic thread, "Take-home pay"
P1
I agree that in educational terms that an ATPL does not equal a degree as Barden says an airline pilot requires a totally different skill set. However just because you have an honours degree does not mean you will find a CPL/IR fzn ATPL a walk in the park!!!
In actual fact, financial costs aside, I would say that the ordinary man in the street would find a degree more attainable than a CPL/IR fzn ATPL. Not everyone is cut out to be a captain of an airliner.
Anyway, think we better get back to the topic thread, "Take-home pay"
P1
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Ok, last post off-topic!
P1 Forever: I agree with you! average jo will be more likely to get a degree than ATPL! for a start, you need to have a specific natural aptitude to become a pilot which cant be "studied". A degree you just need to have the right grades in some presiously general subjects...You can be the brightest man on earth, but if you dont have the natual talent skills required for a pilot, you cant do it! (ignoring the recent debates on having a large wallet guarantees training regardless)!
Ok Back on topic!!
not a pilot
Kick in the nuts everytime an aircraft lands outside my office window
P1 Forever: I agree with you! average jo will be more likely to get a degree than ATPL! for a start, you need to have a specific natural aptitude to become a pilot which cant be "studied". A degree you just need to have the right grades in some presiously general subjects...You can be the brightest man on earth, but if you dont have the natual talent skills required for a pilot, you cant do it! (ignoring the recent debates on having a large wallet guarantees training regardless)!
Ok Back on topic!!
not a pilot
Kick in the nuts everytime an aircraft lands outside my office window
Last edited by lovezzin; 15th Apr 2010 at 08:04.
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"IT professional" (read: Blagger). Earn a week what the average Captain's salary is a month here .... (but it's not guarenteed). Just for once I think I chose the right profession this time and will continue to fly for fun
Best of luck chaps, it's a bad world out there at the moment for everyone, but aviation jobs do seem to be hit a lot harder than most industries.
Best of luck chaps, it's a bad world out there at the moment for everyone, but aviation jobs do seem to be hit a lot harder than most industries.
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Special natural aptitude
I wish someone could specify what "special natural aptitude", and "natural abilities", you would need to obtain an ATPL ?
In my humble opinion(did my ATPL 22 years ago), the average Jo, stands a much better chance of beeing successful at memorizing a multiple choice question bank, than earning a degree in medisin or ingeneering. Most student pilots do not have any seroius problems with the practical training either( I was previously an instructor )
But education level is not very relevant to what your net income is, an uneducated rough neck, doing odd jobs on the deck of an oil platform in the North sea, working shifts two weeks on, four weeks off, in many cases makes more than an airline pilot.
The airlines figured out long ago that you don`t have to pay pilots premium salary to employ them, there are even numnuts out there willing to pay to work. Do the airlines employ "the best and the brightest" ?
Not anymore, they employ people pursuing a dream, and who are willing to pay for it.
I am still paid well, although not as well as before, this will not change until pilots are in short supply, and I can`t see that happend in the near future.
In my humble opinion(did my ATPL 22 years ago), the average Jo, stands a much better chance of beeing successful at memorizing a multiple choice question bank, than earning a degree in medisin or ingeneering. Most student pilots do not have any seroius problems with the practical training either( I was previously an instructor )
But education level is not very relevant to what your net income is, an uneducated rough neck, doing odd jobs on the deck of an oil platform in the North sea, working shifts two weeks on, four weeks off, in many cases makes more than an airline pilot.
The airlines figured out long ago that you don`t have to pay pilots premium salary to employ them, there are even numnuts out there willing to pay to work. Do the airlines employ "the best and the brightest" ?
Not anymore, they employ people pursuing a dream, and who are willing to pay for it.
I am still paid well, although not as well as before, this will not change until pilots are in short supply, and I can`t see that happend in the near future.
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Dillion - Get some hours and then sign up with Korean or Vietnam airlines and you will (almost) triple your salary.
Good luck to all and remember - The pay will only ever be what you accept to work for!
Good luck to all and remember - The pay will only ever be what you accept to work for!