FlyBe to acquire BA Connect (Crew thread - no spotters)
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If BRS looks like the end of the road for flybacon (or pigs might fly???!) does that suggest an EZY expansion to you?
Talking of which, why not stick in an application for EZY? They will pay you more than flybacon.
Seriously though, good luck to everyone involved I can only sympathise with the disgraceful way in which the news was announced.
Talking of which, why not stick in an application for EZY? They will pay you more than flybacon.
Seriously though, good luck to everyone involved I can only sympathise with the disgraceful way in which the news was announced.
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Just spent a year at MAN working for a well known BA franchise. Sorry to hear that this has kicked off so soon as you were all promised a couple of years to get Connect up and running profitably. However how will you all cope with the the withdrawal of your brand new BA flight deck uniforms? Some of you haven't even got them yet but it didn't stop the rest from automatically behaving in the time honoured arrogant manner as soon as you put them on. I know I'll take a lot of stick for saying that but as one of those on the receiving end I know it's true. Now you still have jobs but you need to realise who you will be working for.
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Those individuals' attitudes are unfortunate, BF.However,there was no choice as to the Company uniform issue.Most thought it was a gesture of ,dare I say,*good will*,and the fact that BACX (sic) was coming out of a bad patch and that BA was prepared to invest.
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Manx Govt in Cunning Plan to Confuse BA's Sale
STOP PRESS
In a cunning attempt to confuse and confound BA's imminent sale of its "loss making" arm BA Connect the Isle of Man Government has , with the tacit and wholehearted agreement of the United Nations, agreed to change its Sovereign name to THE ISLE OF LONDON.
The name transition will take place at 2359 November 5th 2006.
Coincidentally the Capital, Douglas, will be known forthwith as Hampstead-by-the-Sea.
Ronaldsway Airport will also be known as Croydon-on-the-Sands
An unnamed Goverment spokesman commented that such a move is expected to provide a massive investment from BA as its current business strategy appears to be prerequisite for all business caches centred on the London named airports where BA has a presence.
When asked for a comment on this bold move a spokesperson in Mr William Walsh's management team was quoted as "Where the hell is the Isle of Man?".
Further comment from the Isle of Man Goverment was unavailable as the spokesperson was feeding his geese.
Spoof Reuters
In a cunning attempt to confuse and confound BA's imminent sale of its "loss making" arm BA Connect the Isle of Man Government has , with the tacit and wholehearted agreement of the United Nations, agreed to change its Sovereign name to THE ISLE OF LONDON.
The name transition will take place at 2359 November 5th 2006.
Coincidentally the Capital, Douglas, will be known forthwith as Hampstead-by-the-Sea.
Ronaldsway Airport will also be known as Croydon-on-the-Sands
An unnamed Goverment spokesman commented that such a move is expected to provide a massive investment from BA as its current business strategy appears to be prerequisite for all business caches centred on the London named airports where BA has a presence.
When asked for a comment on this bold move a spokesperson in Mr William Walsh's management team was quoted as "Where the hell is the Isle of Man?".
Further comment from the Isle of Man Goverment was unavailable as the spokesperson was feeding his geese.
Spoof Reuters
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The Tip of the Icebourg
This must have been going on behind the scenes for some time and not a leak out at all but to not be proffessional about it until the staff read about many hours before management what does that say about the people at the top looking after our jods????
What is next to come out of this?? I and many others must think there could be something else in this story to come out will WW come to each station and give a presentation of the situation.
It all remains to be seen some of us have been made redundent more than once.
Bring back the likes if B.E.A. and B.O.A.C..the staff seemed happier in those days.
What is next to come out of this?? I and many others must think there could be something else in this story to come out will WW come to each station and give a presentation of the situation.
It all remains to be seen some of us have been made redundent more than once.
Bring back the likes if B.E.A. and B.O.A.C..the staff seemed happier in those days.
Thread Starter
Can anyone at Flybe let us know how things work there?
Do you do seniority? Bacon does, but then it has to since there is no other system in place to manage crew other than a staff number. The current managers couldn't be trusted to run anything other than a seniority system and even then they have to be watched. The only way to progress in this company is to try and get into the right lodge and of course being one of Her Majesty's finest helps. Relevant experience qualifications and a proven track record count for nothing. Management jobs are never advertised, they just happen to certain people.
Please tell us it is different at Flybe or can we expect more of the same?
Do you do seniority? Bacon does, but then it has to since there is no other system in place to manage crew other than a staff number. The current managers couldn't be trusted to run anything other than a seniority system and even then they have to be watched. The only way to progress in this company is to try and get into the right lodge and of course being one of Her Majesty's finest helps. Relevant experience qualifications and a proven track record count for nothing. Management jobs are never advertised, they just happen to certain people.
Please tell us it is different at Flybe or can we expect more of the same?
Last edited by biddedout; 4th Nov 2006 at 08:48.
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To all in Ba Connect,
I know how you are feeling at the moment.
13 years ago I also found out, via the BBC, that Dan-Air had been sold to BA for one pound and that BA were laying off most of the Dan-Air pilots, offering them no more than statutory redundancy ! At the time I had a 2 year old and a 2 week old
to provide for and the house we were in negotiations to buy obviously could not be completed. Six months after that I joined FlyBe - they were the hardest 6 months of my life.
Do I hold any ill feeling toward BA crews ? Of course not - as for BA management, well that's different matter. We are all pawns in a big game - trying to make ends meet and pay the mortgage.
The only way I can help you at the moment is to try and answer some of your questions - to be perfectly honest none of us at FlyBe saw this one coming and I, too, only found out yesterday. There are many FlyBe pilots asking questions, which at this stage are not being answered.
FlyBe are not the best of companies but not the worst either. One of the most important things is it's constantly changing - yesterdays being the largest so far. The staff are all great to work with - you actually have fun when you go to work.
We do actually have a schedule agreement, it does offer some protection but to be honest it wouldn't be worth me giving you the details yet because we have been fighting to improve it, and our salaries, since April and there is a new one in the pipe line.
The Dash 8 is the fleet at the moment that needs pilots. There is a definite shortage of Dash Capt's - the starting salary for Capt's is around £45K, F/O's start at £27K.
The 146's are being replaced by the EMB195 as we speak, so as you can appreciate seats on the left seat of the 195 will be very slim as there is already a long waiting list and as for the right seat this too has a waiting list but not as long. Capt's start at £51K and F/O's about £31K. All these salaries are about to increase by approx. 5% or else !!
That's all I have time for at present but I will try and answer any further questions later today.
Good luck with whatever you decide in the future,
PJ2
I know how you are feeling at the moment.
13 years ago I also found out, via the BBC, that Dan-Air had been sold to BA for one pound and that BA were laying off most of the Dan-Air pilots, offering them no more than statutory redundancy ! At the time I had a 2 year old and a 2 week old
to provide for and the house we were in negotiations to buy obviously could not be completed. Six months after that I joined FlyBe - they were the hardest 6 months of my life. Do I hold any ill feeling toward BA crews ? Of course not - as for BA management, well that's different matter. We are all pawns in a big game - trying to make ends meet and pay the mortgage.
The only way I can help you at the moment is to try and answer some of your questions - to be perfectly honest none of us at FlyBe saw this one coming and I, too, only found out yesterday. There are many FlyBe pilots asking questions, which at this stage are not being answered.
FlyBe are not the best of companies but not the worst either. One of the most important things is it's constantly changing - yesterdays being the largest so far. The staff are all great to work with - you actually have fun when you go to work.
We do actually have a schedule agreement, it does offer some protection but to be honest it wouldn't be worth me giving you the details yet because we have been fighting to improve it, and our salaries, since April and there is a new one in the pipe line.
The Dash 8 is the fleet at the moment that needs pilots. There is a definite shortage of Dash Capt's - the starting salary for Capt's is around £45K, F/O's start at £27K.
The 146's are being replaced by the EMB195 as we speak, so as you can appreciate seats on the left seat of the 195 will be very slim as there is already a long waiting list and as for the right seat this too has a waiting list but not as long. Capt's start at £51K and F/O's about £31K. All these salaries are about to increase by approx. 5% or else !!
That's all I have time for at present but I will try and answer any further questions later today.
Good luck with whatever you decide in the future,
PJ2
Thread Starter
Yes, we better get ready for the inevitable management claims that it was the excessive salaries and payrises(not true) and the scheduling agreement which caused the failure if Bacon. B*****ks. BA managers and their total lack of understanding of anything regional caused the downfall of Bacon. A lot of sensible responsible thought went into putting it together and agreement was written from a point of view of managing lifestyle. Some things were even added to give the company more flexibility than it had before, but these were never used correctly. Nothing in it would have hampered a company which could manage a stable operation with reasonable crewing levels.
Please don't fall for any of the bull that's likely to be heading your way. One of our managers was in the crewroom yesterday banging on about Flybe not wanting anything to do with our scheduling agreement. What a dipstick. If he thinks that going back to the way in which BRAL used to manage resources is a good thing then we are all doomed.
Please don't fall for any of the bull that's likely to be heading your way. One of our managers was in the crewroom yesterday banging on about Flybe not wanting anything to do with our scheduling agreement. What a dipstick. If he thinks that going back to the way in which BRAL used to manage resources is a good thing then we are all doomed.
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Thanks PJ 2.
What have you been told about seniority? I assume this governs your bidding and promotion?
When we combined BRAL and Brymon it was done on a date of joining basis more or less. That was considered fair and broadly worked.
Different people have different priorities but if it is intended that we should all be bolted to the bottom with even those who have been working for 15 years plus going below your most recent arrival then there are hoardes of us who will leave.
What are your thoughts on this?
What have you been told about seniority? I assume this governs your bidding and promotion?
When we combined BRAL and Brymon it was done on a date of joining basis more or less. That was considered fair and broadly worked.
Different people have different priorities but if it is intended that we should all be bolted to the bottom with even those who have been working for 15 years plus going below your most recent arrival then there are hoardes of us who will leave.
What are your thoughts on this?
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What everyone is forgetting in all these arguments is the passenger. When deciding to fly we all have perceptions on the best value for money, and no matter how much money is thrown at BAConnect's advertising very few people believe it. Because it's tarnished by big BA's corporate image of quality, style etc - which doesn't work on short-haul. It had no chance of success with the two letters "BA" incorporated in the name.
The change to Flybe is the best thing to happen to BA Connect:
1. The alternative would have been closure - for certain
2. Other carriers would have then fought to pick up the scraps - very messy and no guarantee of employment
3.Flybe have guaranteed employment for all flight crew. How many other businesses that have gone through traumas like this have made such guarantees?
Most posts display a lot of arrogance and pomposity - a very poor reflection on a group of people that should show more intelligence!
The change to Flybe is the best thing to happen to BA Connect:
1. The alternative would have been closure - for certain
2. Other carriers would have then fought to pick up the scraps - very messy and no guarantee of employment
3.Flybe have guaranteed employment for all flight crew. How many other businesses that have gone through traumas like this have made such guarantees?
Most posts display a lot of arrogance and pomposity - a very poor reflection on a group of people that should show more intelligence!
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Noiffsorbuts
We have been told very little of the fine detail of how this is going to happen. Flybe does use seniority for promotion and base transfers etc. We do not bid for routes or work though.
Although we got a letter in the mail + some posters and video in the crew rooms yesterday telling us about the purchase we have been given little more information than is available on the flybe or BA Website’s.
As others have said we are currently chronically short of Q400 crews especially captains, the E195 is however another story with our own 146 fleet in the process of being retired, and a similar number of 195’s on order, there are already a lot of people in the line for both RHS and LHS.
Could be good for both outfits, could be a total mess, only time will tell but so far the reaction i found in the crewroom yesterday seemed positive. The BAcon dash bods should feel right at home anyway as both the Flybe turboprop fleet manager and our new training manager are both ex BAcon.
We have been told very little of the fine detail of how this is going to happen. Flybe does use seniority for promotion and base transfers etc. We do not bid for routes or work though.
Although we got a letter in the mail + some posters and video in the crew rooms yesterday telling us about the purchase we have been given little more information than is available on the flybe or BA Website’s.
As others have said we are currently chronically short of Q400 crews especially captains, the E195 is however another story with our own 146 fleet in the process of being retired, and a similar number of 195’s on order, there are already a lot of people in the line for both RHS and LHS.
Could be good for both outfits, could be a total mess, only time will tell but so far the reaction i found in the crewroom yesterday seemed positive. The BAcon dash bods should feel right at home anyway as both the Flybe turboprop fleet manager and our new training manager are both ex BAcon.
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Just to add t PJ2 posting; I'm sure we are going to see a big increase in the Captain Q400 salary as flybe is desperately short of suitable candidates to put in the LHS of the new aircraft. For some time our CC has been using the comparison of what BA Connect pays for a 50 seat 22 ton a/c as against our 78 seat 29 ton Q400. I believe they are finally seeing the light. Flying the Q400 isn't all doom and gloom, although it does land like a shopping trolly coming off a cliff, and it has a fair set of toys in a modern flightdeck. Just because the 'fan' is on the outside of the engine nacelle, and slower, oh, and doesn't fly as high and .......
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The key willbe to have a positive attitude and call the glass half full. Face it, finally getting rid of our management, whether or not they danced to Waterside's tune is a huge step forward. I've lost track of how many times over the last ten years or so I've been told JE/BE/FlyBe would go bust, and quite the opposite always happened. We should be very chuffed that we are again part of a proper regional outfit - mind you, let's just all hope that our management stay with the EDI - LCY setup. Anyone any news?
Oh, and the other big question is the pension. I take it FlyBe's is different, and I rather think TUPE doesn't include pension provision. Anyone any comment?
Oh, and the other big question is the pension. I take it FlyBe's is different, and I rather think TUPE doesn't include pension provision. Anyone any comment?
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This must have been going on behind the scenes for some time and not a leak out at all but to not be proffessional about it until the staff read about many hours before management what does that say about the people at the top looking after our jods????
What is next to come out of this?? I and many others must think there could be something else in this story to come out will WW come to each station and give a presentation of the situation.
What is next to come out of this?? I and many others must think there could be something else in this story to come out will WW come to each station and give a presentation of the situation.
Not saying anything about BACON probably was more about trying to find a willing buyer and deciding whether or not to continue with the operations versus the benefits/downsides of selling.
BACON has never been profitable (even before being rebranded). It was given 2 years to get profitable (stated publicly).
The writing was on the wall.
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Will this whole thing mean that for Christmas I will get a pay cut and the chance to fly the Dash for several years? I have read the Q and A’s but they seem to lead me to believe that we will still be working for BA Connect Ltd. and our contracts will still be upheld. Could anyone shed some light on this subject?