TNT Liege, what is it like?

[quickturnaround]

I saw recently two adveritisements in Flight International, TNT is offering new jobs on various acft. Now how are tea and biscuits in Liege, schedule,
days-off, retirement-plan and interline agreements with TNT?
I just wonder? Any TNT jockeys please shed some light on this one.....

Greetz, QTA

[Crossunder]

S'pose the Nitro guys are too damn tired to answer your questions!
Hauling cargo all night, sleeping during the day. Who would want to do that to themselves? Check out TNT's web site; they basically say that fatigue is a big problem, and that you cannot have a normal family life when flying for TNT. And you have to live in Belgium. Haven't found any pros yet...

[Kestrel_909]

Out of interest, what routes are the 744 being used on?

[Lemper]

Originally Posted by Crossunder

S'pose the Nitro guys are too damn tired to answer your questions!
Hauling cargo all night, sleeping during the day. Who would want to do that to themselves? Check out TNT's web site; they basically say that fatigue is a big problem, and that you cannot have a normal family life when flying for TNT. And you have to live in Belgium. Haven't found any pros yet...

The "Nitro" guys have now been called "Quality" for quite a while, they are alive, kicking and mostly Belgian, which makes it easier when one has to live in Belgium. They are hauling cargo at night indeed, and passengers during day from spring till fall. The night flying so called problem is being taken care by appropriate rest times and off days system, which allows them to benefit from family life better than most "day" pilots and even reproduce joyfully the latter activity allowing them a serenity rarely enjoyed in the aviation community of the 21st century.
Little do the the pros advertize as the positions are hard to get and only quitting loosers will bark with sour grapes.
The 747 is now connecting PVG and LGG.

[Donkey Duke]

Originally Posted by Lemper

The "Nitro" guys have now been called "Quality" for quite a while, they are alive, kicking and mostly Belgian, which makes it easier when one has to live in Belgium. They are hauling cargo at night indeed, and passengers during day from spring till fall. The night flying so called problem is being taken care by appropriate rest times and off days system, which allows them to benefit from family life better than most "day" pilots and even reproduce joyfully the latter activity allowing them a serenity rarely enjoyed in the aviation community of the 21st century.
Little do the the pros advertize as the positions are hard to get and only quitting loosers will bark with sour grapes.
The 747 is now connecting PVG and LGG.

What are the different fleet types at TNT, and which planes do passenger charters during the Summer? Which fleet has the happiest pilots, with better rosters or layovers? Cheers.

[SingSong]

What kind of pay do TNT pilots receive (all fleets, BAe 146, A300 and 737 i believe is their fleet, but i may be wrong and their may be more but these were listed in selection form available on their website).

Just ballpark figures would be nice,

Thanks

SS

[juanitabanana]

The pay is under belgian taxes...

that can mean something like 3.500 € for a captain, even on the 747! on the other side, ops management is made of a bunch of belgian aviation frustrated guys who never could make it into Sabena... now they are even more pissed to fly boxes all night long for peanuts... so if you land there with any better money (through agencies i.e.) they will make your life proportional to their ever growing frustration. take care!

[cold_soak]

I am interested as well in what TNT is all about. Are the pilots still mainly Belgians or is it a mixed bunch by now? What does a normal roster look like?

Info on TNT is a bit thin (and a little on the oldish side), so all you Quality-guys get cracking...!

Greetz

[manouche]

best kept secret in aviation !

If you love your family, TNT is the best company you can work for (except the 747 fleet temporarly, because fast expansion and so pilots work on day off for the moment). Lots of days off. You have a minimum of 13 days off per month + some standby days at home.

The gross salary is normal, but belgian state cuts it down to 50%. Means for a captain 146 and 737 : +/- 3300 € + average of 700 € flight pay + 13th + 14 th month salary. The tax systems gives you some advantages if you live in Belgium (mortgage deduction,....).Don't know the 747 salary.

Company pays you a loss of licence + pension found + private insurance for entire family.

Some pilots are frustated (or just tired, because you have to deal with night work) but in general the mood between pilots is very good, very nice collegues and a good mix of belgians, brits, dutchs, germans,..

Good company

[cold_soak]

Thanks for the inside info, manouche!

4000€ after tax times 14 sounds very reasonable to me!
My application will be on the way soon...

what would the average time to upgrade be for someone with about 1000TT, incl. 500h multi-crew?

[Navigator33]

Ho hold your horses. As I read it, the mentioned salary is for a skipper on the Avro or Boeing.

[cold_soak]

Yo, I noticed that. Was thinking mid-term.....

[Navigator33]

O just very ambitious

[cold_soak]

I am going to belong to the "generation silver" soon.
So things like settling down, pay off the mortgage and so on become an issue...

[sarah737]

Manouche,
6600 gross may be belgian standards, but it is 30% below market conditions for 737 skippers. TNT is offering 7000€ (after irish tax) and acomodation via Parc aviation for 737 capt and it took a long time before they found people..
You also work more or less 17 nights a month up to 11 hours a night.

[Cleared ILS approach]

Hi all,
As manouche said, TNT is a very good place if you want to be home and you live near Liège. If you commute it's another story.
According to me :
Pros :
- Lot of time off (13 days off + about 5-7 days a month between flights)
- Company expending (lot of promotions and biddings)
- Reliable business (You are sure to be paid every month)
- Good belgian salarys (But well below european market due to taxes)
- Very quick upgrade
Cons :
- Night flight 90% of the time (report at 0300 LT)
- Roster changing everyday while on duty. Plan nothing while on duty days as anything can happen.
- Taxes in Belgium (remove 50-60% from gross for the captains)
- A bit outdated aircrafts (except the 747's which are brand new) so quite bad rating to have on licence (A300, BAe 146)
- Very long nights of duty (12 hours by night is really long and difficult)
- You don't fly a lot (400-500h a year for short haul) which is a problem as you will leave after 5-10 years and other airlines want hours.
- 747's crews are away up to 10-12 days in a row (might change later?)
So to conclude is you have hours, a young family and are happy with the belgian salarys it's a nice place to be. Night flying must be really considered as it's a problem in the long term and you are really disrupted in your sleep.
If you are young, need hours, want to fly during the day on new-generation aircrafts don't go there.

Hope this give a better overall picture.

Regards

[cold_soak]

Thanks for the info.
What do you mean by "very quick upgrade"? How long -on average- does it take to move to the left seat on the Bae/Boeing fleet?

[Cleared ILS approach]

Hi,
I mean very quick. If you join with a some experience it's gonna be probably within first year or even quicker. Short of captains on every fleet and not many poeple to upgrade so if you are suitable for command it will happen really quickly.
Hope that helps.
Regards

[climbout]

Is that that applicable to the B 747 fleet as well?

[manouche]

Hi climbout,

On the 146 sector you can get command with 1500 h total and 1000 h on type. On the 737 it should be the same. I don't know what the requirements are on the 747 fleet, but the upgrade should be very quick as well because of missing captains

Regards