Jet2 Sector Pay?
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Got the news through about the revised sector pay. An extra 50p for medium sectors, for which only one flight qualifies.
It still sucks and I still feel very let down. An explanation about how the figures were calculated doesn't help me feel better.
I'm in BALPA and I'll stay there. Having a strong voice is good, but I for one don't feel I'd resort to industrial action or somesuch, so why get unionised in order to show mutual support?
On the whole, the job and company is enjoyable, which helps me overlook a lot of the things that are bad or could be better. All companies are the same, good and bad, and you just have to sort out what percentage mix it is for you as an individual.
Personally, the company still scores in the positive for me - there are many great things about Jet2 - but this sector pay issue has definitely decreased my margin of happy feelings.
The initial sector pay felt like a shafting and the revision isn't any better just cos they picked some of the splinters out of the bat.
G
It still sucks and I still feel very let down. An explanation about how the figures were calculated doesn't help me feel better.
I'm in BALPA and I'll stay there. Having a strong voice is good, but I for one don't feel I'd resort to industrial action or somesuch, so why get unionised in order to show mutual support?
On the whole, the job and company is enjoyable, which helps me overlook a lot of the things that are bad or could be better. All companies are the same, good and bad, and you just have to sort out what percentage mix it is for you as an individual.
Personally, the company still scores in the positive for me - there are many great things about Jet2 - but this sector pay issue has definitely decreased my margin of happy feelings.
The initial sector pay felt like a shafting and the revision isn't any better just cos they picked some of the splinters out of the bat.
G
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Originally Posted by Gulpers
I'm in BALPA and I'll stay there. Having a strong voice is good, but I for one don't feel I'd resort to industrial action or somesuch, so why get unionised in order to show mutual support? ......
The initial sector pay felt like a shafting and the revision isn't any better just cos they picked some of the splinters out of the bat. G
The initial sector pay felt like a shafting and the revision isn't any better just cos they picked some of the splinters out of the bat. G
Gulpers, listen mate, none of us really want resort to industrial action but if there is some form of recognised organised representation it must be the way to go. I can see what you are saying but if we let this one go then next time management will think we are all going to bend over and take it when the next shafting is due .... believe me, there will be another one after this one, it's probably lined up right now, then another following that. Look at what the boys at EZ have just done with the help of representation.
Do we want to be paid on a par with others in the industry? Yes. Have you seen that other thread about lowest paid pilots? The first response suggested Jet2 straight away.
Never mind the splinters.... go and put a load of nails in your bat and crack the
right back! 
LCM
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Unfortunately you still see the naivety of the Jet2 pilots showing through in this thread. Even after the latest easyJet negotiations where the company has substantially revised their pay offer because they had a very high Balpa membership and the support of the Balpa negotiators, we see inexperienced individuals in Jet2 who believe that by negotiating their pay, terms and conditions as a group with the cabin crew, and suggesting that the TGWU can represent the pilots better than Balpa heading down the slippery path of getting well and truly shafted by the Jet2 management.
Once again, just because one individual harps on about one instance where Balpa had to make a Solomons choice over whether to back one position or another, we see a blanket disapproval and Lemming like advice being given to the other naive, inexperienced or just plain ignorant pilots to join the TGWU and to negotiate collectively with the cabin crew. I shake my head in disbelief as no doubt those of us who are lucky enough to work for carriers that have strong Balpa representation and have learnt the hard way how it actually works, watch these innocents heading, like lambs, straight to the slaughter.
It really is time that you Jet2 pilots got your acts together and looked at the other airlines around you where there is strong Balpa membership and the terms and conditions they work under and your own. Even a house brick can see the logic and fact in that!
Once again, just because one individual harps on about one instance where Balpa had to make a Solomons choice over whether to back one position or another, we see a blanket disapproval and Lemming like advice being given to the other naive, inexperienced or just plain ignorant pilots to join the TGWU and to negotiate collectively with the cabin crew. I shake my head in disbelief as no doubt those of us who are lucky enough to work for carriers that have strong Balpa representation and have learnt the hard way how it actually works, watch these innocents heading, like lambs, straight to the slaughter.
It really is time that you Jet2 pilots got your acts together and looked at the other airlines around you where there is strong Balpa membership and the terms and conditions they work under and your own. Even a house brick can see the logic and fact in that!
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Originally Posted by arewenearlythereyet?
Unfortunately you still see the naivety of the Jet2 pilots showing through in this thread. Even after the latest easyJet negotiations where the company has substantially revised their pay offer because they had a very high Balpa membership and the support of the Balpa negotiators, we see inexperienced individuals in Jet2 who believe that by negotiating their pay, terms and conditions as a group with the cabin crew, and suggesting that the TGWU can represent the pilots better than Balpa heading down the slippery path of getting well and truly shafted by the Jet2 management.
Once again, just because one individual harps on about one instance where Balpa had to make a Solomons choice over whether to back one position or another, we see a blanket disapproval and Lemming like advice being given to the other naive, inexperienced or just plain ignorant pilots to join the TGWU and to negotiate collectively with the cabin crew. I shake my head in disbelief as no doubt those of us who are lucky enough to work for carriers that have strong Balpa representation and have learnt the hard way how it actually works, watch these innocents heading, like lambs, straight to the slaughter.
It really is time that you Jet2 pilots got your acts together and looked at the other airlines around you where there is strong Balpa membership and the terms and conditions they work under and your own. Even a house brick can see the logic and fact in that!
Once again, just because one individual harps on about one instance where Balpa had to make a Solomons choice over whether to back one position or another, we see a blanket disapproval and Lemming like advice being given to the other naive, inexperienced or just plain ignorant pilots to join the TGWU and to negotiate collectively with the cabin crew. I shake my head in disbelief as no doubt those of us who are lucky enough to work for carriers that have strong Balpa representation and have learnt the hard way how it actually works, watch these innocents heading, like lambs, straight to the slaughter.
It really is time that you Jet2 pilots got your acts together and looked at the other airlines around you where there is strong Balpa membership and the terms and conditions they work under and your own. Even a house brick can see the logic and fact in that!
Your pay offer is derisory...below inflation! You're going to have to stand up for yourselves, my friends!
Last edited by Vercingatorix; 21st Apr 2006 at 19:29.
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We have NO representative body. That's why we are being rolled over. The aircrew meeting thing has no negotiating authority.
What we do have is the chance to start something from scratch.
For info in the past 3 days I've been approached by the agencies for jobs with Thomsonfly, Excel, Air Berlin and a job in Lagos. I'm sure lots of us have been approached. The point is, I'm still here because it suits me. I could be here longterm, that's why I want it to get much better.
BTW Maat
Of course I believe in Santa. It's me every year. How do you think the presents get here?
What we do have is the chance to start something from scratch.
For info in the past 3 days I've been approached by the agencies for jobs with Thomsonfly, Excel, Air Berlin and a job in Lagos. I'm sure lots of us have been approached. The point is, I'm still here because it suits me. I could be here longterm, that's why I want it to get much better.
BTW Maat
Of course I believe in Santa. It's me every year. How do you think the presents get here?
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Originally Posted by silverhawk
We have no representative body. That's why we are being rolled over.
What we do have is the chance to start something from scratch.
Of course I believe in Santa. It's me every year. Maat how do you think the presents get here?
What we do have is the chance to start something from scratch.
Of course I believe in Santa. It's me every year. Maat how do you think the presents get here?
If BALPA isn't representing you properly...take it over...using the ballot box...simple but true!!
Why are you paying into something with no negotiating powers?
Stick together like glue...unity is power...old maxims but very true!!
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We have to stick with Balpa and have to stick together. Vercingatorix has hit the nail on the head. The management now need to witness some shock tactics of our making and this lies with Balpa. If it worked for Easyjet why not for us.
Easyjet crews are paid substantially more than us, they fly very modern kit that must cost substantially more than the 'classics' to operate with respect to lease or purchase costs, and they still make a profit. After all this they pay their crews a proper salary.
So if they can do all this and make a profit why can’t we do the same (i.e. pay). Where is all the money going? Is this the reason the company was re-listed on AIM and withdrawn from other more scrutinised listings?
Easyjet crews are paid substantially more than us, they fly very modern kit that must cost substantially more than the 'classics' to operate with respect to lease or purchase costs, and they still make a profit. After all this they pay their crews a proper salary.
So if they can do all this and make a profit why can’t we do the same (i.e. pay). Where is all the money going? Is this the reason the company was re-listed on AIM and withdrawn from other more scrutinised listings?
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It is quite simple...you've got to wake up and smell the coffee! Once management get a whiff you are about to capitulate and give up...you are quite simply knackered! If I was running your firm now I'd refuse to pay you ANY pay rise...simply because I think I could get away with it!
Get organised and fight back!! Strongly worded letters and emails won't get you anywhere, my friends!!
Nine times out of ten management ALWAYS back down when you show them your mettle!!
DO IT!!
Get organised and fight back!! Strongly worded letters and emails won't get you anywhere, my friends!!
Nine times out of ten management ALWAYS back down when you show them your mettle!!
DO IT!!
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Originally Posted by Vercingatorix
Why are you paying into something with no negotiating powers?
If you are an individual member of a union presently you get the benefits of membership, but no group negotiating powers.
As for membership costs of BALPA, take a look http://www.balpa.org/intranet/Join-BALPA/index.htm
PP
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Originally Posted by maat
BALPA subscriptions are 0.5% of salary for the first year. For a Captain on £62k a year that is £310 per annum.
But 67% of BALPA subscriptions are tax deductible, so 67% of annual subscription, £207.70 gets added to your tax code; i.e. the amount you are allowed to earn before taxation starts.
That leaves an annual subscription of £102.30, or £8.53 a month.
BALPA is only as strong as the company council whose interests it represents. All BALPA supply is free advice, legal and otherwise, and a Principal Negotiator. A Principal Negotiator is a person assigned to the company. Their job is to offer guidance to the company council and undertake negotiations on their behalf.
IPF and TGWU are non-starters. They don’t have the experience or track record, ay least in Airlines in the TGWU’s case. BALPA are not perfect, but are the only realistic option.
But 67% of BALPA subscriptions are tax deductible, so 67% of annual subscription, £207.70 gets added to your tax code; i.e. the amount you are allowed to earn before taxation starts.
That leaves an annual subscription of £102.30, or £8.53 a month.
BALPA is only as strong as the company council whose interests it represents. All BALPA supply is free advice, legal and otherwise, and a Principal Negotiator. A Principal Negotiator is a person assigned to the company. Their job is to offer guidance to the company council and undertake negotiations on their behalf.
IPF and TGWU are non-starters. They don’t have the experience or track record, ay least in Airlines in the TGWU’s case. BALPA are not perfect, but are the only realistic option.
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http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222646
If you work for Jet2 read post 7 if nothing else, you'll go to bed in tears!!!
This is what we could achieve if we had BALPA.
If you work for Jet2 read post 7 if nothing else, you'll go to bed in tears!!!
This is what we could achieve if we had BALPA.
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Time to take stock.
With all this talk of union action perhaps PM et al will look back with fondness to the nights of freight and reflect that the grass may not always be greener on the loco side. As an ex memeber of Channel Express (Dedicated to Cargo) I look with jaundiced amusement to the goings on at Jet2.com.
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I do think BALPA is the way to go - it is a "union" specialised for us after all!
We can be a strong, united group that looks out for each other and still maintain that nice feeling that (most) of us have about working for Jet2.
BALPA is a tool for us to use and we must wield it effectively. TGWU would have learn all the jargon first, for a start!!
G
We can be a strong, united group that looks out for each other and still maintain that nice feeling that (most) of us have about working for Jet2.
BALPA is a tool for us to use and we must wield it effectively. TGWU would have learn all the jargon first, for a start!!
G
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Originally Posted by Gulpers
I do think BALPA is the way to go - it is a "union" specialised for us after all!
We can be a strong, united group that looks out for each other and still maintain that nice feeling that (most) of us have about working for Jet2.
BALPA is a tool for us to use and we must wield it effectively. TGWU would have learn all the jargon first, for a start!!
G
We can be a strong, united group that looks out for each other and still maintain that nice feeling that (most) of us have about working for Jet2.
BALPA is a tool for us to use and we must wield it effectively. TGWU would have learn all the jargon first, for a start!!
G
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Originally Posted by Vercingatorix
Does BALPA have elected representation? You seem to be paying a lot of money to them!!
An interesting aside is that one of our pilots approached an independant financial advisor and asked what it would cost to buy the various products that make up our package, like loss of licence insurance, death in service, private healthcare, tax deductable allowance etc and was quoted £1500 a month! These were all negotiated by the Company Council over the years. Suddenly 1% doesn't look that much after all.......
PP
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Just to get my head around all this...do BALPA have the right to speak/negotiate/agree on behalf of their members.
Getting 'recognition' is easier said than done. If BALPA have full NEGOTIATION rights as opposed to CONSULTATION rights then stick with them. Consultation can mean lip-service. The important issue here is for you all to stick together...one thing management detest is an undivided work force!!
Getting 'recognition' is easier said than done. If BALPA have full NEGOTIATION rights as opposed to CONSULTATION rights then stick with them. Consultation can mean lip-service. The important issue here is for you all to stick together...one thing management detest is an undivided work force!!
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Balpa
Vercingatorix:
If that is indeed true you exhibit an alarming degree of ignorance, Balpa works under a TUC remit, if you are 'seasoned' then you would know that.
Whoa there, you are at crossed purposes here mate!
Balpa can 'speak' to anyone on a members behalf.
Balpa can only 'negoitiate' on (collective) members behalf if invited by said members and the company agree, unless the 50%+1 rule is applied (more of that later).
Balpa would only 'agree' on anything providing the membership agree first!
Not so, probably the easiest thing to do... (and management hate the lose of power
2 complete different things! As you rightly point out, consultation means gyp... In todays morally bankrupt Airline Managment practices the only way forward is full representation. As Corporal Jones would say... they dont like it up them... 
Balpa can seek representation on behalf of members if membership is proven to be 50%+1 of the Pilot body. The company have NO say in this, they must agree to the Pilots being represented by a Trades union. If the management say no, and some do (we can assume this rag tag outfit would say no), then Balpa can instigate representation against the will of management, which has happened in other companies.
Vercingatorix, I hope you now understand how Balpa approach this subject? I am not connected with Balpa in any way, although I was previously a rep for a while in a previous company, now merely a member.
On the subject of this thread, I feel there are management plants in this thread, indeed there are probably more plants posting here than were in that silly MAN meeting...
Applause indeed... suckers!
I am a seasoned trade unionist.
Just to get my head around all this...do BALPA have the right to speak/negotiate/agree on behalf of their members.
Balpa can 'speak' to anyone on a members behalf.
Balpa can only 'negoitiate' on (collective) members behalf if invited by said members and the company agree, unless the 50%+1 rule is applied (more of that later).
Balpa would only 'agree' on anything providing the membership agree first!
Getting 'recognition' is easier said than done.
If BALPA have full NEGOTIATION rights as opposed to CONSULTATION rights then stick with them. Consultation can mean lip-service.
In todays morally bankrupt Airline Managment practices the only way forward is full representation. As Corporal Jones would say... they dont like it up them... Balpa can seek representation on behalf of members if membership is proven to be 50%+1 of the Pilot body. The company have NO say in this, they must agree to the Pilots being represented by a Trades union. If the management say no, and some do (we can assume this rag tag outfit would say no), then Balpa can instigate representation against the will of management, which has happened in other companies.
Vercingatorix, I hope you now understand how Balpa approach this subject? I am not connected with Balpa in any way, although I was previously a rep for a while in a previous company, now merely a member.
On the subject of this thread, I feel there are management plants in this thread, indeed there are probably more plants posting here than were in that silly MAN meeting...
Applause indeed... suckers!
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Seer,
Thank you for calling a meeting of 40 aviation professionals "suckers", we really appreciate it.
As ever, you are missing the point. The gentleman in question apologised twice for his handling of the situation and promised more consultation in the future. He appeared sincere and convincing.
Yes, okay, it could have been a complete act and no, we don't expect the leopard to change his spots overnight, but it might just have been one small step in the right direction and we encouraged him with a handclap.
No doubt you would have just sneered and walked out, which would of course have solved everyone's problems.
Thank you for calling a meeting of 40 aviation professionals "suckers", we really appreciate it.
As ever, you are missing the point. The gentleman in question apologised twice for his handling of the situation and promised more consultation in the future. He appeared sincere and convincing.
Yes, okay, it could have been a complete act and no, we don't expect the leopard to change his spots overnight, but it might just have been one small step in the right direction and we encouraged him with a handclap.
No doubt you would have just sneered and walked out, which would of course have solved everyone's problems.