Ryanair - A Guide for Prospective Pilot Employees
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To Pilot Pete and anyone else who might be interested;
Part 7 of Ops Manual refers to IAA regulations, not CAP 371.
FDP is 30 mins before flight to 15 mins after. Rostered report time is -45 mins. (In reality, most of us check-in at STD -60 to ensure a complete and thorough brief. I think it's called 'proffesionalism', something FR management choose to ignore.)
FDP is up to 12 hours regardless of when you check in.
For Cabin Crew this figure is 14 hours.
FD may work for 6 consecutive days, if required, and all starts may be 'earlies'
CC may work for 7 consecutive days......
9 days leave will be allocated, at random, and almost always in single days throughout the year to ensure that realistic leave planning is impossible.
Days off will be replaced with leave days at the companie's whim, whenever it suits them so to do.
Morale is in the dumps but spirits and application to the job in hand are high!
Still want to join?
Part 7 of Ops Manual refers to IAA regulations, not CAP 371.
FDP is 30 mins before flight to 15 mins after. Rostered report time is -45 mins. (In reality, most of us check-in at STD -60 to ensure a complete and thorough brief. I think it's called 'proffesionalism', something FR management choose to ignore.)
FDP is up to 12 hours regardless of when you check in.
For Cabin Crew this figure is 14 hours.
FD may work for 6 consecutive days, if required, and all starts may be 'earlies'
CC may work for 7 consecutive days......
9 days leave will be allocated, at random, and almost always in single days throughout the year to ensure that realistic leave planning is impossible.
Days off will be replaced with leave days at the companie's whim, whenever it suits them so to do.
Morale is in the dumps but spirits and application to the job in hand are high!
Still want to join?
Last edited by rubik101; 29th Mar 2007 at 09:36.
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Just to correct a previous post.
Regarding SFO.
Ryanair have now made it official that there are no more SFO upgrades.
This will mean FO's can no longer expect an increase in basic salary, as stated before. Just another cost saving.
So now you start on a low salary and stay on a low salary.
Regarding SFO.
Ryanair have now made it official that there are no more SFO upgrades.
This will mean FO's can no longer expect an increase in basic salary, as stated before. Just another cost saving.
So now you start on a low salary and stay on a low salary.
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Hi guys,
How have things changed since this was written - could some kind (brave?) soul bring us up to date?
What are the chances of being employed in FR if you're 39 on application?
Thanks
FT
How have things changed since this was written - could some kind (brave?) soul bring us up to date?
What are the chances of being employed in FR if you're 39 on application?
Thanks
FT
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You're on the back of the drag curve at 39 I'm afraid, but it's not unknown for guys in there 40s to get hired. I've flown with one FO who must have been 45 when employed as a cadet. If you can pass the interview and sim check why not.
All I would say though at 39 and working for Ryanair is I hope you don't have any financial commitments (mortgage and wife + kids) because the BRK pay isn't consistent, good in the summer, meager in the winter. Plus you'll be probably be living out of a bag quite a lot.
All I would say though at 39 and working for Ryanair is I hope you don't have any financial commitments (mortgage and wife + kids) because the BRK pay isn't consistent, good in the summer, meager in the winter. Plus you'll be probably be living out of a bag quite a lot.
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Not to mention paying for your food and accommodations during training. However, there are those who still manage to break the 800 hour mark. As long as one has no great expectations from FR then one shall not be disappointed.
Under the Brookfield contract one is paid based on Scheduled Block Hours (SBH). Back in the day... the (SBH) were pretty fat. In other words, one could fly a SBH flight of 2:30 in 2:15... and you were credited with 2:30 hours for pay purposes. At the end of the month, one could have 100 hours on the log book, and have a pay credit of 110 hours.
That all changed in either late 2007 or early 2008. FR tightened their SBH. In fact the flight time was more than the SBH. With that being said, one would fly the same SBH of 2:30 in 2:45... and still credited with only 2:30 minutes for pay purposes. As you can see it becomes a losing proposition. Now with that being said, one can fly 100 hours in a month and be credited with only 90 hours for pay purposes. Hourly pay is not what it seems to be... or is it
. Of course this was the experience from EGSS.
But at the end of the day... it was nice to have a 5/4 roster. Even flying out of base... the 20 Euro/hr was sufficient to meet hotel, transport, and meal expenses.
Under the Brookfield contract one is paid based on Scheduled Block Hours (SBH). Back in the day... the (SBH) were pretty fat. In other words, one could fly a SBH flight of 2:30 in 2:15... and you were credited with 2:30 hours for pay purposes. At the end of the month, one could have 100 hours on the log book, and have a pay credit of 110 hours.
That all changed in either late 2007 or early 2008. FR tightened their SBH. In fact the flight time was more than the SBH. With that being said, one would fly the same SBH of 2:30 in 2:45... and still credited with only 2:30 minutes for pay purposes. As you can see it becomes a losing proposition. Now with that being said, one can fly 100 hours in a month and be credited with only 90 hours for pay purposes. Hourly pay is not what it seems to be... or is it
. Of course this was the experience from EGSS.But at the end of the day... it was nice to have a 5/4 roster. Even flying out of base... the 20 Euro/hr was sufficient to meet hotel, transport, and meal expenses.
Last edited by captjns; 17th Feb 2011 at 13:35.
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Hi guys,
Thanks - I do know I'm on the back of the drag curve, all the same it could probably be done.
It would be great if some knowledgeable person could update the main post and let us all know how the land is at Ryanair, warts and all. Cause theres people like me wanna be prepared for it!
Thanks - I do know I'm on the back of the drag curve, all the same it could probably be done.
It would be great if some knowledgeable person could update the main post and let us all know how the land is at Ryanair, warts and all. Cause theres people like me wanna be prepared for it!
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Been offered a Brookfield contract. Mug.
I would say you'll hear the ground is laid to waste with sh1t and misery in Ryanair.
What do you want to hear? It's the path of milk and honey?
I would say you'll hear the ground is laid to waste with sh1t and misery in Ryanair.
What do you want to hear? It's the path of milk and honey?
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I can only assume Lord A is having a laugh! I certainly hope so..
Keep your head down = do whatever the company wants no matter how unreasonable for however much they choose to pay you this month with no base / job security. To clarify.
Keep your head down = do whatever the company wants no matter how unreasonable for however much they choose to pay you this month with no base / job security. To clarify.
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@stansdead
I know its not. I've been shuffling around these forums looking at the darker side of life for a while.
Knowing that IF I were to take this enormous personal risk and end up offered BRK, then theres no shock horror when see -€4.50 for every block hr I fly etc.
So, to get back to my q, what has deteriorated since the main post was written?
Thanks,
I know its not. I've been shuffling around these forums looking at the darker side of life for a while.
Knowing that IF I were to take this enormous personal risk and end up offered BRK, then theres no shock horror when see -€4.50 for every block hr I fly etc.
So, to get back to my q, what has deteriorated since the main post was written?
Thanks,
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Omar: Don't pick up your phone when you are off duty if you can't identify the number or see it's an Irish one. That's what practically any Brookfielder in my base does.
Had a conversation with a colleague yesterday which was interesting to me. He's originally from Brazil where he flew with Varig for 8 years as a FO. After they went bankrupt he came to Europe and joined Ryanair. Got the command within a year from joining.
What he told me was that he didn't get at all what Ryanair SFO's are complaining about. At the current rate any decent FO gets a shot at command after 3 years of service. In practice an FO could become a commander aged 25. By comparison, in the US you can be 40 years old and still be flying turboprops RHS. Another thing he pointed at was people complaing about basing. He claims that while working for Varig he was based a 4 hour flight away from home on a roster with no solid pattern.
Of course Varig had multiple benefits that Ryanair lacks but his general attitude was that the Ryanair package, whilst absolutely not a long term solution, is not that bad of a deal.
While I'm personally not the biggest fan of Ryanair, unlike some amongst you may think, I always try to look at the entire picture and treat everything on its' merits.
I believe he made a decent argument in saying that a lot has to do with perception and more importantly personal experience.
It's a pity PPruNe has no frontpage of some sort. I think this whole discussing calls for an objective comparison of Airline T&C's based on facts. A table with comparable values would help a great deal.
Now, some FO T&C figures up for discussion:
Brussels Airlines - Self-sponsored 737 Classic rating followed by a 9 month contract. Salary taxed progressively under Belgian legislation. Top shelf is 50%. No guarantees black on white for an extension of contract after those 9 months.
TUI Jetairfly - Self-sponsored 737 NG rating. 6 month contract. After probation period of 6 months board of directors may deny permanent contract. Sometimes company sponsors the type rating with a 3 year training bond of €3000 before tax. Take-home pay just under €2000. No fixed roster, only "Blanc" days which are in theory all standby days.
Thomas Cook - Company sponsored Airbus A320. 2 summer seasons contract. No Guarantee to any flight hours outside summer season. Basic pay €1500. No guarantees to any extension of contract after 2 years.
That's a quick run-down of contracts that I've seen personally.
edit: As always I'm up for a pleasant discussion. Posts with personal insults I will ignore with a smile
Had a conversation with a colleague yesterday which was interesting to me. He's originally from Brazil where he flew with Varig for 8 years as a FO. After they went bankrupt he came to Europe and joined Ryanair. Got the command within a year from joining.
What he told me was that he didn't get at all what Ryanair SFO's are complaining about. At the current rate any decent FO gets a shot at command after 3 years of service. In practice an FO could become a commander aged 25. By comparison, in the US you can be 40 years old and still be flying turboprops RHS. Another thing he pointed at was people complaing about basing. He claims that while working for Varig he was based a 4 hour flight away from home on a roster with no solid pattern.
Of course Varig had multiple benefits that Ryanair lacks but his general attitude was that the Ryanair package, whilst absolutely not a long term solution, is not that bad of a deal.
While I'm personally not the biggest fan of Ryanair, unlike some amongst you may think, I always try to look at the entire picture and treat everything on its' merits.
I believe he made a decent argument in saying that a lot has to do with perception and more importantly personal experience.
It's a pity PPruNe has no frontpage of some sort. I think this whole discussing calls for an objective comparison of Airline T&C's based on facts. A table with comparable values would help a great deal.
Now, some FO T&C figures up for discussion:
Brussels Airlines - Self-sponsored 737 Classic rating followed by a 9 month contract. Salary taxed progressively under Belgian legislation. Top shelf is 50%. No guarantees black on white for an extension of contract after those 9 months.
TUI Jetairfly - Self-sponsored 737 NG rating. 6 month contract. After probation period of 6 months board of directors may deny permanent contract. Sometimes company sponsors the type rating with a 3 year training bond of €3000 before tax. Take-home pay just under €2000. No fixed roster, only "Blanc" days which are in theory all standby days.
Thomas Cook - Company sponsored Airbus A320. 2 summer seasons contract. No Guarantee to any flight hours outside summer season. Basic pay €1500. No guarantees to any extension of contract after 2 years.
That's a quick run-down of contracts that I've seen personally.
edit: As always I'm up for a pleasant discussion. Posts with personal insults I will ignore with a smile
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Omar: Don't pick up your phone when you are off duty if you can't identify the number or see it's an Irish one. That's what practically any Brookfielder in my base does.
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Have the said airlines got recognition from a union, will T&C continue to fall.... I dont know maybe you can answer these questions? I know a bit about TC because some guys I know got the seasonal contract last year and now have a permanent contract which is far better in the long run than mine.... No wait I don't have a contract.... As I've been told it's just a GUIDELINE!
I try not to answer my phone but people not associated with flying call me and sometimes they have blocked numbers..... and funny when I refuse I get a bunch of standbys too. Feels great to work under bullied conditions but as I said it's a great place to get experience but not a great place to be long term. I hit 3 years had contracts (sorry guidelines) changed had holidays ruined etc so that's all I can take....
I try not to answer my phone but people not associated with flying call me and sometimes they have blocked numbers..... and funny when I refuse I get a bunch of standbys too. Feels great to work under bullied conditions but as I said it's a great place to get experience but not a great place to be long term. I hit 3 years had contracts (sorry guidelines) changed had holidays ruined etc so that's all I can take....
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Omar: All airlines are companies head-quartered in Belgium and technically are required by law to recognize unions.
In practice however Belgian airlines often receive a waver to this requirement if they are able to provide proof that they run an adequate in-house body which represents the interests of their pilots.
What ends up happening is that these bodies usually consist of just a few management pilots or pilots with good standing within the company. They are thus far from independent or objective.
In practice however Belgian airlines often receive a waver to this requirement if they are able to provide proof that they run an adequate in-house body which represents the interests of their pilots.
What ends up happening is that these bodies usually consist of just a few management pilots or pilots with good standing within the company. They are thus far from independent or objective.
I don't have a dog in this fight but I thought some of you out there would be interested in a comment in an email that I received this morning from one of my old students who is now a trainer with Emirates:
We are actively looking to recruit ex-Ryanair and easyJet pilots.
Interesting.
They have obviously recognised talent.
We are actively looking to recruit ex-Ryanair and easyJet pilots.
Interesting.
They have obviously recognised talent.
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As posted by JW411
Carriers in the Far East recognize FR's training too.
We are actively looking to recruit ex-Ryanair and easyJet pilots.
Interesting.
They have obviously recognised talent.
Interesting.
They have obviously recognised talent.
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Without disrespect for Ryanair and easy-jet pilots , are you sure they are interested in their talent ?
Or are they happy to see pilots used to study by themselves , work hard with no union etc ... ?
Or are they happy to see pilots used to study by themselves , work hard with no union etc ... ?
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Hold on there a minute Xerox25
MOL and along with the all the despots in the industry are not holding a gun to the head of the wannabee birdmen. They are well aware of how conditions have deteriorated within the industry over the years.
These despots are taking advantage of the situation... cheap labour. They cast their lines into the water and a sucker bites the tastes the bait and bites the hook
.
Anyway... these prospective flyboys and flygals are educated people and old enough to make their decisions.
Step back for a minute and imagine a day when all pilots unite together as one and decide to call a sickout
. No sounds from the jet... no contrails in the heavens above... Just a bunch of Orwellians wandering aimlessly about the terminal bumping into one another. How do you think the shareholders, let alone those passengers would react
? Well Xerox25, we have a better chance of watching the sun rising from the West and set in the East before pilots unite and take inventory in their importance and action against these despots
.
MOL and along with the all the despots in the industry are not holding a gun to the head of the wannabee birdmen. They are well aware of how conditions have deteriorated within the industry over the years.
These despots are taking advantage of the situation... cheap labour. They cast their lines into the water and a sucker bites the tastes the bait and bites the hook
.Anyway... these prospective flyboys and flygals are educated people and old enough to make their decisions.
Step back for a minute and imagine a day when all pilots unite together as one and decide to call a sickout
. No sounds from the jet... no contrails in the heavens above... Just a bunch of Orwellians wandering aimlessly about the terminal bumping into one another. How do you think the shareholders, let alone those passengers would react? Well Xerox25, we have a better chance of watching the sun rising from the West and set in the East before pilots unite and take inventory in their importance and action against these despots.