BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
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Trouble making up their minds?
Hmmm, this thread has gone on since January, and yet I haven't heard of any news about an actual work stoppage.
One wonders, did the BA guys lose their nerve?
Wouldn't be the first time....
One wonders, did the BA guys lose their nerve?
Wouldn't be the first time....
Junior trash
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Well that was a massively valuable contribution 411a. Thank you.
Perhaps if you read the thread instead of just diving in you might know why it hasnt got to a strike yet. But if BA dont budge it will. Early next year i would guess.
Perhaps if you read the thread instead of just diving in you might know why it hasnt got to a strike yet. But if BA dont budge it will. Early next year i would guess.
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Absolutely Hotel Mode (got my bid in for the RHS 744 BTW - can't stand another summer at LGW like the one we've just had - see you next year!), I was going to post with exactly the same comment WRT 411A's lack of courtesy in posting without even bothering to try and research the issue by simply reading the thread.
I thought it might all get deleted by a R&N mod for being not relevant to the thread though.
Having decided now to make my own contribution then, I'd better say something relevant... So for those too lazy to read the history of how we got to where we are now, here is a concise version...
1) BA jump on the bandwagon caused by Labour's new pensions policy and put out a load of propaganda saying how much trouble the pension fund is in.
2) BA 'consult' with the workforce (yeah right!).
3) BA mooted their initial ideas (informally), one of which was the Career Average replacement for FSS.
4) BALPA consulted its BA membership and made it quite clear to BA that any attempt to impose a Career Average scheme would be met with the fiercest resistance.
5) Following the triennial actuarial review, BA made a set of proposals eventually on 23 March. Career Average off the table, thank goodness (well done BALPA! And well done BA for taking heed of the writing on the wall).
6) There was much waiting to be done whilst BALPA (and other TUs) considered the formal proposals and BALPA commissioned research from top accountants into BA's ability to pay. NAPS trustees independently did the same.
7) Last week at the GMMs, BALPA announced it's amended position that, due to the amount of the deficit and the advice from PWC about BA's ability to pay, coupled with the complicated relationship between the Pension Regulator, The Trustees, The Company and the Workers/Pensioners; "No Change" is no longer a viable rallying cry. BALPA proposed an entirely reasonable compromise that should be acceptable to the majority of interested parties (especially the City Institutions). If a negotiated settlement is not reached, the Trustees and/or Regulator will almost certainly impose something much worse on us and that has always been seen by BALPA as "Not an option".
8) More meetings are being held with the company and the trustees. BALPA have stated that if the company won't move we could be balloted for IA in as little as a month. A ballot would run for at least three weeks and then the company has to be given at least seven days notice of any IA by law.
Apologies if that isn't wholly correct (it was off the top of my head), but it does give the gist of what's been going on and where we are now. Rather apt that my home made brazier will be finished just in time for the festive conker roasting season!
I thought it might all get deleted by a R&N mod for being not relevant to the thread though.
Having decided now to make my own contribution then, I'd better say something relevant... So for those too lazy to read the history of how we got to where we are now, here is a concise version...
1) BA jump on the bandwagon caused by Labour's new pensions policy and put out a load of propaganda saying how much trouble the pension fund is in.
2) BA 'consult' with the workforce (yeah right!).
3) BA mooted their initial ideas (informally), one of which was the Career Average replacement for FSS.
4) BALPA consulted its BA membership and made it quite clear to BA that any attempt to impose a Career Average scheme would be met with the fiercest resistance.
5) Following the triennial actuarial review, BA made a set of proposals eventually on 23 March. Career Average off the table, thank goodness (well done BALPA! And well done BA for taking heed of the writing on the wall).
6) There was much waiting to be done whilst BALPA (and other TUs) considered the formal proposals and BALPA commissioned research from top accountants into BA's ability to pay. NAPS trustees independently did the same.
7) Last week at the GMMs, BALPA announced it's amended position that, due to the amount of the deficit and the advice from PWC about BA's ability to pay, coupled with the complicated relationship between the Pension Regulator, The Trustees, The Company and the Workers/Pensioners; "No Change" is no longer a viable rallying cry. BALPA proposed an entirely reasonable compromise that should be acceptable to the majority of interested parties (especially the City Institutions). If a negotiated settlement is not reached, the Trustees and/or Regulator will almost certainly impose something much worse on us and that has always been seen by BALPA as "Not an option".
8) More meetings are being held with the company and the trustees. BALPA have stated that if the company won't move we could be balloted for IA in as little as a month. A ballot would run for at least three weeks and then the company has to be given at least seven days notice of any IA by law.
Apologies if that isn't wholly correct (it was off the top of my head), but it does give the gist of what's been going on and where we are now. Rather apt that my home made brazier will be finished just in time for the festive conker roasting season!
Last edited by beaver eager; 12th Nov 2006 at 19:55. Reason: Typos, grammar, clarification and personal message to Hotel Mode :)
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Shortfinalfred
I know this whole issue is very emotive for you, I am afraid your assessment of myself is not right, not that keen on caviar, but love champagne...! So love that sort of lifesyle, however, the bonus would not cover the new boat in st Tropez, cos I do not get big bonuses, if only...I will not wind you up anymore as this is such a sensitive issue, good luck, cos I think you will need it and one other bit of advice....keep your lefty leanings in the dark as I think it may be frowned upon within BA!! No joking apart...good luck to you all...power to the people!!! .......
I know this whole issue is very emotive for you, I am afraid your assessment of myself is not right, not that keen on caviar, but love champagne...! So love that sort of lifesyle, however, the bonus would not cover the new boat in st Tropez, cos I do not get big bonuses, if only...I will not wind you up anymore as this is such a sensitive issue, good luck, cos I think you will need it and one other bit of advice....keep your lefty leanings in the dark as I think it may be frowned upon within BA!! No joking apart...good luck to you all...power to the people!!! .......
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All very interesting beaver eager, but it still doesn't address the situation.
IF all this has been going on for soooo long, why hasn't there been any action from BALPA?
After all, they DO represent the FD crew, do they not?
Me thinks...BALPA, just a bunch of p*****s, completely unable to get their ducks in a row.
And, not unsurprising, EVERY former BA pilot I have ever met over the years (plenty) has just as much contempt for BALPA as the company has...which is a lot.
In short, company wins...just like always.
Expect NOTHING different.
One wonders...just where is the BALPA backbone?
Go ahead, prove me wrong.
Five will get you ten there will be NO action whatsoever...BALPA will cave, in the end.
IF all this has been going on for soooo long, why hasn't there been any action from BALPA?
After all, they DO represent the FD crew, do they not?
Me thinks...BALPA, just a bunch of p*****s, completely unable to get their ducks in a row.
And, not unsurprising, EVERY former BA pilot I have ever met over the years (plenty) has just as much contempt for BALPA as the company has...which is a lot.
In short, company wins...just like always.
Expect NOTHING different.
One wonders...just where is the BALPA backbone?
Go ahead, prove me wrong.
Five will get you ten there will be NO action whatsoever...BALPA will cave, in the end.
Junior trash
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Whilst I appreciate that this topic neatly combines your favourite topics of unions and the British, as you actually know precisely nothing about the subject in hand please return to flying clapped out aircraft for 3rd rate airlines. Thank goodness the EU wont allow them in. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251992
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How can there be any action when there hasn't been any formal 'failure to agree' yet and the negotiations are still ongoing?
BALPA's research into BA's ability to pay only finished recently, are you suggesting they should just 'shoot from the hip' instead?
This is England, Old Boy... Not The Wild West!
And I just don't believe what you say about all the BA pilots you've ever met. BALPA might not be perfect, but without it the management would do whatever they like and our life would be complete hell.
If BA wish to avoid IA, then they will compromise. BALPA's recent decision to compromise is not driven by weakness but by the realities of recent UK pension legislation. I'd be worried if I were a Labour politician right now... A fate similar to that which befell the Republicans last week awaits, methinks.
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Sorry, beaver eager, but your First officer status only belies the fact that you are a relative newcomer to the airline scene.
British...or otherwise.
Mark my words, BALPA will fold, there will be no IA, and all will continue to grumble on the FD...nothing else.
Period.
British...or otherwise.
Mark my words, BALPA will fold, there will be no IA, and all will continue to grumble on the FD...nothing else.
Period.
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411a
I don't actually know what Beaver's SFO status has to do with the subject, I'd bet that he is much more in touch with BA pilots' views than you ever have been or ever will be.
As he says, in the UK (for better or worse - but at least we still have profitable airlines) there are laid down processes that have to be followed in the resolution of any dispute before you get to the point where a union or association can legally ballot for / call for a withdrawal of labour. BALPA is a responsible association, and to not follow the letter of the law can result in the sequestration of all money.
Whereas some unions may encourage unofficial work to rule/walkouts, BALPA will not do that.
It is VERY likely that the current situation WILL result in a ballot for any action up to and including strike within the next 2 weeks (+/-). I look to you eating your moth-eaten and faded Tristar management captains hat followed by a large slice of humble pie.
BA B747-400 Captain -to save you looking it up....
I don't actually know what Beaver's SFO status has to do with the subject, I'd bet that he is much more in touch with BA pilots' views than you ever have been or ever will be.
As he says, in the UK (for better or worse - but at least we still have profitable airlines) there are laid down processes that have to be followed in the resolution of any dispute before you get to the point where a union or association can legally ballot for / call for a withdrawal of labour. BALPA is a responsible association, and to not follow the letter of the law can result in the sequestration of all money.
Whereas some unions may encourage unofficial work to rule/walkouts, BALPA will not do that.
It is VERY likely that the current situation WILL result in a ballot for any action up to and including strike within the next 2 weeks (+/-). I look to you eating your moth-eaten and faded Tristar management captains hat followed by a large slice of humble pie.
BA B747-400 Captain -to save you looking it up....
Last edited by TopBunk; 13th Nov 2006 at 08:11. Reason: I should have said ballot within about 2 weeks, not a strike.
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Actually 411A, I am a 737 Capatin at Gatwick. My true identity is open known to other BA users of PPRuNe as I am the BA forum moderator so no pretence possible.
At the risk of becoming involved in childish gainsaying, I have been a Captain at Gatwick for 8 years now, so I think I probably do know more about what's going on than you (who can't even be bothered to read this thread properly, I might add).
My realative juniority is beacuse I (and about 50 others) have an out-of-seniority Gatwick command due to BA taking over and integrating the company I worked for previously when I was already a Captain on the RJ100. I was the BALPA company council chairman of said previous company so I am close enough to BALPA to get a feel for whats is really happening today.
At the risk of becoming involved in childish gainsaying, I have been a Captain at Gatwick for 8 years now, so I think I probably do know more about what's going on than you (who can't even be bothered to read this thread properly, I might add).
My realative juniority is beacuse I (and about 50 others) have an out-of-seniority Gatwick command due to BA taking over and integrating the company I worked for previously when I was already a Captain on the RJ100. I was the BALPA company council chairman of said previous company so I am close enough to BALPA to get a feel for whats is really happening today.
Guys I was trained by you guys on the Tristar and enjoyed working with you but there is a time to do things and that time must be approaching soon. I have just booked my next two holidays and guess what I have not booked BA the reason.....I need to be told and assured that when I leave on my holiday it will be with my chosen airline with all the uncertainty written in the numerous pages I could not guarentee that I would get to my destinations. I wish you guys well and good luck.
Controversial, moi?
fergineer
That is a great shame. Many off us feel unsettled and disappointed that we are in this battle in the first place.
The point should be made that this is not about some short term greed for a pay rise but the reduction in my agreed benefits FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE while the management up to board level are trousering massive bonuses for cutting costs. When our chief pilot pocketed £348,000 a few months ago as his bonus his exhortation to me that I must work another 10 years and have pensionable pay rises and future pension increases pegged below inflation had a somewhat hollow ring to it.
I will fight and fight to win. WW is here for the short term as was RE and Ayling before him. WWs predecessors all walked off with huge golden handshakes. WW will too no doubt. However it will not be at my expense.
As for the 411a's comments about BALPA they have always had the skill to negotiate an acceptable settlement prior to actually striking. An actual strike would be seen in my eyes as a failure. But then we all know that in 411a's Texas world he kicks arse and people do what he says, period.
That is a great shame. Many off us feel unsettled and disappointed that we are in this battle in the first place.
The point should be made that this is not about some short term greed for a pay rise but the reduction in my agreed benefits FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE while the management up to board level are trousering massive bonuses for cutting costs. When our chief pilot pocketed £348,000 a few months ago as his bonus his exhortation to me that I must work another 10 years and have pensionable pay rises and future pension increases pegged below inflation had a somewhat hollow ring to it.
I will fight and fight to win. WW is here for the short term as was RE and Ayling before him. WWs predecessors all walked off with huge golden handshakes. WW will too no doubt. However it will not be at my expense.
As for the 411a's comments about BALPA they have always had the skill to negotiate an acceptable settlement prior to actually striking. An actual strike would be seen in my eyes as a failure. But then we all know that in 411a's Texas world he kicks arse and people do what he says, period.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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If you had read 411A's threads for as long as I have you would have realised by now that he has worked for at least 10 different companies on as many different types of aircraft in as many parts of the world, so is highly unlikely to have a pension.
His one common theme throughout his threads however is that he doesn't like pilots and he doesn't like BALPA.
His one common theme throughout his threads however is that he doesn't like pilots and he doesn't like BALPA.
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Have been following the thread with interest and while my sympathy lies with BALPA and those they represent will regretfully be booking the holiday tickets elsewhere due uncertainty.
It does seem though that the whole approach to the problem has been very much more reasoned, unlike some of the other industrial actions that have formerly caused so much misery to the punters.
It does seem though that the whole approach to the problem has been very much more reasoned, unlike some of the other industrial actions that have formerly caused so much misery to the punters.
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Indeed you are, unwiseowl, and we all wait with baited breath for the other BA FD crew shoe to drop.
You can't fight City Hall, and expect to 'win' many rounds...
Years ago 'ole Bud Maytag at National Airlines played his ALPA crews like a violin, and the tune was always not very nice...for the crews.
Me thinks, same for BA.
You can't fight City Hall, and expect to 'win' many rounds...
Years ago 'ole Bud Maytag at National Airlines played his ALPA crews like a violin, and the tune was always not very nice...for the crews.
Me thinks, same for BA.
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Indeed you are, unwiseowl, and we all wait with baited breath for the other BA FD crew shoe to drop.
You can't fight City Hall, and expect to 'win' many rounds...
Years ago 'ole Bud Maytag at National Airlines played his ALPA crews like a violin, and the tune was always not very nice...for the crews.
Me thinks, same for BA.
You can't fight City Hall, and expect to 'win' many rounds...
Years ago 'ole Bud Maytag at National Airlines played his ALPA crews like a violin, and the tune was always not very nice...for the crews.
Me thinks, same for BA.