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BA: Is It Really That Bad???

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BA: Is It Really That Bad???

Old 13th Nov 2005, 17:12
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I think you might just be right Da Dog.
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Old 13th Nov 2005, 19:01
  #42 (permalink)  
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So all this posts donīt make my decision to change or not a lot easier!!!! But as you know yourself the Tīs & Cīs are going down everywhere. Right now I have a perfect pension sheme. My company pays me 47% of my last sallery when Iīm retired for the rest of my life. But as I said "right now", Iīll have to work another 35 years and I donīt think that my current employer wants to pay into that sheme for me for so many years. Itīs just a matter of time when they wonīt do it anymore. Anyway I donīt know if Iīm still alive in 35 years with flying 900 hrs a year. So the pension sheme is not really a point not to join BA. Iīll earn almost 1000 Pound a month more at BA than at my present empl., and with that money I can/will increase the monthly pay to my personal private pension sheme at an insurance company. That pension I will get sure, and Iīll not rely on any pension sheme of any empolyer. I just think, as also all the "economic gurus" promise, that there will just a few big airlines survive in europe: BA, LH, Air France & KLM. The rest will be low cost and feeder for the big ones. I donīt want to be pilot of a feeder airline flying 5+legs a day for the rest of my life.
But I also love my current airline, and have still a good contract but how long will it stay like that????? The disprofit this year will be huge, and then i guess will the managers come again and take it from us.
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Old 14th Nov 2005, 19:57
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Anyway I donīt know if Iīm still alive in 35 years with flying 900 hrs a year.
It's good to hear you have other pension arrangements. However, I'm interested to know how many hours less per year you think you'll be flying with BA....
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Old 14th Nov 2005, 20:44
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You'll only fly less than 900 hours in BA if you are a manager!

No seriously, they do work the longhaul guys hard, but they are not ALL at 900 hours every year. They work the shorthaul guys hard too. Remember some of that 900 hours is asleep, so it cannot be directly compared with 900 hours shorthaul. That's not to say they don't wark hard.

The things above I would agree with, although not in the same volume. They are about to nick half our pension, and we do have frustrations as litsted above, but they exist elsewhere too. I didn't belive that my pension was safe from the moment I discovered I was one of the last to join. I will do what I can to protect it, but I don't hold out much faith.

I spoke to a Virgin FO the other day down route. I suggested their 750 hour limit was better than the BA 900 hour limit. He then came up with a list of things that were better in BA. Result: Grass is Greener. Just make sure you know what you are getting into.
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Old 14th Nov 2005, 21:00
  #45 (permalink)  
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Maybe it wrote it missunderstanding, I donīt expect to fly less than 900hrs. But Iīll get a lot more money for the same work and 900 hrs longhaul as stated above are "easier" than 900hrs shorthaul with max. 1hr legs :-)
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Old 14th Nov 2005, 23:26
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DD et al,

Off course! Since I generally adopt a positive attitude about my employer and don't spend the majority of my time incessantly whinging, I must have management aspirations. Grow up!

cornet,

As always, it is hard to establish a true picture of the company on this forum because of the extreme views of the vocal few that have nothing better to do than constantly whinge. I can promise you that the attitudes of the majority flying the line at BA are positive. Infact, I would say that the views of JS and n_n are typical of what you will encounter every day. The current company pension contribution is pants, and could really do with being improved. However, anyone in a DB pension scheme with any significant time left in the industry had ought not to count on it, IMHO.

I think you probably know, or will soon know, enough of the facts to make your own decision. We have plenty of foreign nationals working here, many that commute. I just don't want you to go away thinking that the majority of BA flight crews are as manically disillusioned as some people on this forum might suggest!

Once again, good luck!

C_8
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Old 15th Nov 2005, 08:57
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I'm not disillusioned I just won't roll over. Anyone looking at NAPs has got to see that there is an enormous freight train rushing towards it. On this occassion I could sit back and say "I'm all right Jack. BA can't make my pension much worse they've already slashed it." But looking beyond I can see the consequences of not standing up to this attack on NAPs terms and conditions. If BA pilots don't stand united we will be picked off individually group by group.

The NAPs pilots joined BA because of the package at the time and it is totally wrong for BA to take it away. There is no pension shortfall long term, and pensions are long term investments. There is a shortfall in the value of my flat this year because it was going up at 10%, it doesn't mean I have to double my payements, long term it will regain track. Of course if the bank decided to move out of mortgages to make more profit elsewhere they could bombard me with negative advertising to make me think I needed to pay a higher interest rate!

The thing that gets me about all the threads recently is that pilots seem to be embarassed about the salarys they earn. I'm not, I'm a highly trained professional, I've invested tens of thousands in my career and I belong to a finite employable pool. I work long unsociable hours and (with the help of my Captain!) I am responsible for the safety and profitability of a multi billion pound corporaration. I also love my job.

Stop the downward pressure on pilots' status. That's what reduced pay really equates to. The job looks easy when it's performed by a professional. Watching a surgeon work looks easy. Watching an incompetent surgeon is horrendous.
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Old 17th Nov 2005, 19:38
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Ah but you see flying tom Cuban 8 thinks that the downward pressure on out terms and conditions is OK

I say again cuban 8, give yourself a few more years and we will see how "motivated" you are, I dont need to "grow up" I have been there seen it done it and got the T shirt, but you would'nt know would you?
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Old 19th Nov 2005, 10:50
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I agree with cuban8 - a lot of views on this forum are extreme. To add my tuppence worth, I was a cadet, have been in 5 years, and work SH on the 737 at LGW - supposedly the s***e fleet.

I'm very happy. Work very hard in summer, not so hard but still steady in winter.

Pay is good.

Minimum 11 days off a month - often 12/13.

Nightstops - 6/7 per month - just right for me.

3 weekends off a month (if I choose to bid for them)

Coming up to longhaul soon so excited about that.

In conclusion, BA certainly ain't perfect, and the internal politics can be shocking at times. But my attitude is - go to work, have a laugh, do the job well, go home and have a life outside BA (crucial to keep sane!).

Maybe there is better out there, but I know there is worse.

HTH

Mary.
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Old 20th Nov 2005, 17:52
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The thing to remember about BA is that it is a mature company. The T's & C's will continue to erode despite all the smoke, mirrors and special effects dreamt up by the management and BALPA.

It will probably be worthwhile considering other options as they may prove more fruitful.

BA has reached the heady heights of mediocrity as a company but most people buy the hype.

Its an ideal place to work if you find thinking difficult as the company has a set of rules for everything.

Come to work, switch off, go home.

Not sure how a cadet can claim to know that other places are worse, must be all that life experience.

Best speak to those who have been round the block a few times before signing up. BA likes cadets becasue they are very loyal and seldom question the company. They are also cheap, ideal employees.

Harry the non-believer (fly Virgin)
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Old 29th Nov 2005, 17:03
  #51 (permalink)  
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What about the stability of the rosters? Is it possible to have a private life?
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Old 29th Nov 2005, 18:24
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cornet

Roster stability used to be excellent - however there is a nasty little clause in our agreements that allows the Company to tell you to come to work and you have little option but to obey. It was an option little used until recently, it has now become a major problem.....so you plan your private life with care and/or don't pick up the telephone if it rings.

(oh yeah, and don't believe anything the management tell you about pensions either)
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 09:17
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Most of the points raised about BA are absolutely true.

There is no point in drawing comparisons against the "heady days" of max allowances, final salary pensions and hardly any flying. The commercial world has changed both inside and outside of aviation. People work harder, have less time at home and don't have the security of guaranteed pensions anymore. Go and spend 6 months working as a manager in another industry and you will come running back to BA unless you have become thoroughly disillusioned with flying in general. Most of my non flying and flying friends who work for other airlines would gladly swap seats with me.

I enjoy working for BA as the salary is good, route variation maintains your interest, bidline allows you to build your own roster, a/c are well maintained, seniority is honoured, I only work about 15 days a month, cockpit culture allows far more involvement in the the flight than many other airlines, good career prospects and most importantly of all - job security (well as much as you can in this industry). After 9/11 many airlines laid off pilots without a second thought. Including Virgin, which we all love to use as a yardstick. BA kept all their pilots employed, even if some were re-deployed elsewhere. The point is, they could still feed their family and pay the mortgage. Airlines that appear to offer more can take this away in a heartbeat and leave you high and dry. I'm not staying BA has any loyalty, employee compassion, or ethics - it doesn't! Some of these militant outdated agreements to which many people allude whilst generally being archaic do have one or two positive clauses in them.

However, I can't disagree with any of the negative points raised either. The trick with LHR is to just do the best you can and switch off the moment it goes beyond your control. As for management: piss up and brewery spring to mind. If you want a better pension, put some of the extra salary away or use the time off to work PT from home and gain a 2nd income - I do. Many people talk about time to command and how its so much shorter in other airlines. Ask yourself why. Most pilots stay at BA. I never became a pilot just so I could massage my ego with 4 stripes, make myself feel important and try to impress friends at dinner parties - get a life! Do you want Ģ70k as the skipper of a lo-cost 737 on a multi sector day, multiple there and back Canaries and Greek islands all summer with a charter carrier. Or do you want a similar package, less flying, less fatigue, more family time and less stress as an SFO on one of the Boeing fleets in BA? Unless your life is not complete with those extra stripes I know where I woud rather be. I'll take the command when it eventually arrives.

The bottom line is that I enjoy working at BA. It is less stressful than any other job I have ever done. I get paid to fly a nice aircraft, eat food, read the paper and enjoy the view. By the time I get onto the crew bus at the end of a duty I am already switching off and once in the car, I honestly struggle to remember what I've done for the last few days. Thats it in a nutshell. My wife says it is the least stressed she has seen me for 10 years. Treat it as a job, keep your outside interests, find a nice hobby or 2nd job and make sure you see family and friends with all that time off. BA is very worthwhile if you make the effort to have a life. Despite your best efforts this is not always that easy to achieve in other airlines. At least I have a choice in BA.

"Don't wait for your boat to come in, row out and meet it" (Got that off one of those pretentious desktop calendars a few years ago - but it sounds appropriate for this thread!)

Here endeth todays lesson.
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 09:49
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Itīs not just one who is writing that, so my question:"IS BRITISH AIRWAYS REALLY THAT BAD?????
And it's not ALL that are writing it either!

For such a large organisation, by percentage, a very small amount are unhappy, and for different reasons.

Logic suggests that in any organisiation, there are always going to be people unhappy, but it's because something set in place doesn't suit their individual needs or requirements, but it's fine for thousands of others.

If everyone was happy, there would be no vacancies at any time and everyone would be queueing up to work there. If they were that popular, they'd start cutting salaries and taking away benefits to fall in line with other airlines where staff were unhappy!

"You can please some of the people some of the time......"
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 15:12
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I just made the plunge, starting in March.
Hmmmm 5 days of 12 hours (10 sectors) or 12 days of 12 hours (35-40 sectors). Sure it's tiring but propably not as great a damage to your health and life as it is in the Lo-Co world.

Tally-Ho!
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 15:37
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Don't kid yourself Shaka Zulu. Working through the night and shifting time zones is bad for the long term health!

Reckon Loco versus long haul for long term health is about the same.

Still think BA is great career.

Best of luck!
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Old 2nd Dec 2005, 14:04
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Yes Scottie I do concur. However I've seen enough of the low cost at the moment that makes me think that I wouldnt survive another ten years or so!

Any idea how many people (reliable info please) BA still requires on the 777 and other types?
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Old 3rd Dec 2005, 13:44
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The trouble with BA is that there are too many civilian trained pilots and those of us who have the best trainging in the world bar none receive no enhanced seniority and are made to fac humiliation with 2 stripes on joining, then are supposed to answer to some spotty 30 year old captain.

Also BALPA is infested with militant little oiks who need some discipline in their lives (I refuse to be a member).

At least more and more management positions are being filled by ex-RAF pilots which is a very welcome thing.

Once 2006 legislation comes in we may be able to challenge the seniorty system and gain some rightful enhanced seniority for those of us who have served Queen and Country, and not spent half our lives being mollicoddled by house masters and approved schools, or, God forbid, come from GA.
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Old 3rd Dec 2005, 14:02
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Be a dear and do my walkround for me will you Flashy? Don't want to get my new Patrick Cox shoes wet. And its one sugar in my tea next time or you won't get a landing.
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Old 3rd Dec 2005, 14:03
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Now you wouldn't be the little scamp I failed in the sim recently would you?
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