What is going on at EZY?
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The Company is "bucking up"!
nonemmett is typical of most of us hanging on at EJ - not because we're died-in the wool orange people, but because we're getting a 5% bonus every year, the promise of a free Airbus rating to go with our free B737 rating, plus a decent paypacket. Now we're getting a 5-day week!
Take those away and there's only the sh!t rostering, unbelievable fatuous management b0ll0cks, (Step Change??? whats that steaming pile of turd all about) outrageous workload and awful ex-Go junkheap aeroplanes. And that's certainly not worth sticking around for.
nonemmett is typical of most of us hanging on at EJ - not because we're died-in the wool orange people, but because we're getting a 5% bonus every year, the promise of a free Airbus rating to go with our free B737 rating, plus a decent paypacket. Now we're getting a 5-day week!
Take those away and there's only the sh!t rostering, unbelievable fatuous management b0ll0cks, (Step Change??? whats that steaming pile of turd all about) outrageous workload and awful ex-Go junkheap aeroplanes. And that's certainly not worth sticking around for.
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Flaps One:
You really need to get out and about, it is only then you will appreciate the true feelings of a lot of the pilots.
No of us are stupid enough to jump with nothing to go to, but when the right opportunity presents itself we will be off.
Dont be fooled by the lack of movement.
As recent postings suggest type ratings are a major reason to hang on at the moment. This is not a target/longterm prospect , it's rapidly becoming a training ground for guys to get qualified and then move to a decent employer (no doubt those in Orange towers will put a stop to this pretty soon!).
I actually think the BC/ Trainers resignations are quite significant (like them or not!!), then again I suppose it s a good chance to put some more "yes" men in place.
As for the loyalty bonus, isnt that going?
Anyway last one out switch the lights off!
You really need to get out and about, it is only then you will appreciate the true feelings of a lot of the pilots.
No of us are stupid enough to jump with nothing to go to, but when the right opportunity presents itself we will be off.
Dont be fooled by the lack of movement.
As recent postings suggest type ratings are a major reason to hang on at the moment. This is not a target/longterm prospect , it's rapidly becoming a training ground for guys to get qualified and then move to a decent employer (no doubt those in Orange towers will put a stop to this pretty soon!).
I actually think the BC/ Trainers resignations are quite significant (like them or not!!), then again I suppose it s a good chance to put some more "yes" men in place.
As for the loyalty bonus, isnt that going?
Anyway last one out switch the lights off!
noflare,
Genuine question. Who do you percieve this to be, and what do you think will be better (all things considered) elsewhere?
get qualified and then move to a decent employer
no flare,
It makes me quite happy with my lot when I read your bitter posts. I enjoy my job and my time at work.
How sad that you spend so much time in your life wishing for something else but doing nothing about it.
It makes me quite happy with my lot when I read your bitter posts. I enjoy my job and my time at work.
How sad that you spend so much time in your life wishing for something else but doing nothing about it.
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noflare
No, sorry to disappoint you and the small band who insist that it is the case but..............the loyalty bonus is not going. Not unless something better is found to replace it, and that looks pretty unlikely just now, don't you think?
In fact, the company have had to agree to change a very misleading statement about that very thing on the public website.
No, sorry to disappoint you and the small band who insist that it is the case but..............the loyalty bonus is not going. Not unless something better is found to replace it, and that looks pretty unlikely just now, don't you think?
In fact, the company have had to agree to change a very misleading statement about that very thing on the public website.
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no flare et al - you guys need to go somewhere else very quickly and leave behind the 90%+ of pilots who are happy. There will always be those who want long haul - best of luck to them. They will always provide a steady stream of highly capable people to the likes of BA, Virgin & Emirates. There will also be a small but steady group of people who are so negative as to make themselves unemployable anywhere else and who simply will do nothing but whine all day long. Fortunately they are few and far between but seem to write on here at great length. I sometimes think they are working for another employer or know about that amazing job somewhere which is so perfect as to make easyJet seem so dire to work for.
Just try and be more positive even for a few hours so you can actually manage to get your fantasy job at 'Utopian Airways'. (Sadly by joining it you will ruin it and then find it is not so great after all.) Then you can at last leave easyJet for those of us who want to make a good job better still.
Just try and be more positive even for a few hours so you can actually manage to get your fantasy job at 'Utopian Airways'. (Sadly by joining it you will ruin it and then find it is not so great after all.) Then you can at last leave easyJet for those of us who want to make a good job better still.
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 9th Mar 2005 at 18:41.
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Norman et al; I'm delighted you are enjoying life in the Orange bubble, thats great....but please spare the rest of us the crap of 90+% pilots are happy.
A lot of us are taking notice of your pearls of wisdom and moving on, and believe it or not there are other employers out there with better T&C's.
Thats my lot on it.....cheers
A lot of us are taking notice of your pearls of wisdom and moving on, and believe it or not there are other employers out there with better T&C's.
Thats my lot on it.....cheers
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Have to agree - I'm working my notice now and yes I'm off to pastures new with far better terms and conditions than those I leave behind.
Easyjet has been great - they've had plenty of hours out of me and in return I've had a quick command and had a very nice standard of living on both F/O and Captain's salaries. However I look alot older now than I did when I joined! A career airline it is not and in my opinion will never be, unless you want to be permanently tired, especially in the summer. Some people love it and some have grown to loathe it - the trick is to do something about it if you've had enough....easier said than done of course especially once the golden handcuffs are on!
It doesn't matter which airline you work for they will all want their pound of flesh from you but everyone who has joined Easy in the last 5 years and is now a relatively young Captain/SFO is asking the same question: 'Can I do this for the rest of my career?'. The answer in just about 100% of cases is NO.
Easyjet has been great - they've had plenty of hours out of me and in return I've had a quick command and had a very nice standard of living on both F/O and Captain's salaries. However I look alot older now than I did when I joined! A career airline it is not and in my opinion will never be, unless you want to be permanently tired, especially in the summer. Some people love it and some have grown to loathe it - the trick is to do something about it if you've had enough....easier said than done of course especially once the golden handcuffs are on!
It doesn't matter which airline you work for they will all want their pound of flesh from you but everyone who has joined Easy in the last 5 years and is now a relatively young Captain/SFO is asking the same question: 'Can I do this for the rest of my career?'. The answer in just about 100% of cases is NO.
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MacTom
You are probably right; many people may very well ask themselves if they can continue that style of flying for the next umpteen years. I am one of them. But consider this: any airline making money flying around Europe is working its crews at least as hard as easyJet, probably harder, and for less.
Lo-cost airlines have pushed flight crews to unheralded levels of productivity that has squashed ticket prices for customers, and seeded a desperately needed evolution in air travel. They have created opportunities for passengers, pilots, cabin crew, and developed long lamented airports such as Liverpool - in fact, compare that particular airport now with its former self of just five years ago.
True, the status of pilots has almost collapsed when measured against an earlier time, but then there are considerably more of us successfully pursuing the childhood dream to one degree or another.
BA short haul pilots working from LHR are doing four sector days. They spend most of their week away from home (according to seniority) and they fly as many hours per year as a guy or gall with orange wings. At least the latter see their own bed, and all its benefits, every night. It's the future for all of us on short haul.
But this is the rub. Sooner or later we, the diminished, will be unable to follow the lifestyle that seems to have become acceptable. An accident may occur, we may strike, we could rebel, or we could simply die. And an inquiry will conclude that modern rostering practices were to blame.
I fear that one day we all of us, pilots, cabin crew, and management in all of aviation shall pay a high price for the rise of lo-cost.
FQ
You are probably right; many people may very well ask themselves if they can continue that style of flying for the next umpteen years. I am one of them. But consider this: any airline making money flying around Europe is working its crews at least as hard as easyJet, probably harder, and for less.
Lo-cost airlines have pushed flight crews to unheralded levels of productivity that has squashed ticket prices for customers, and seeded a desperately needed evolution in air travel. They have created opportunities for passengers, pilots, cabin crew, and developed long lamented airports such as Liverpool - in fact, compare that particular airport now with its former self of just five years ago.
True, the status of pilots has almost collapsed when measured against an earlier time, but then there are considerably more of us successfully pursuing the childhood dream to one degree or another.
BA short haul pilots working from LHR are doing four sector days. They spend most of their week away from home (according to seniority) and they fly as many hours per year as a guy or gall with orange wings. At least the latter see their own bed, and all its benefits, every night. It's the future for all of us on short haul.
But this is the rub. Sooner or later we, the diminished, will be unable to follow the lifestyle that seems to have become acceptable. An accident may occur, we may strike, we could rebel, or we could simply die. And an inquiry will conclude that modern rostering practices were to blame.
I fear that one day we all of us, pilots, cabin crew, and management in all of aviation shall pay a high price for the rise of lo-cost.
FQ
Last edited by Flying Quill; 12th Mar 2005 at 06:42.
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I can't believe everyone is arguing over how many people are in Balpa at Easyjet etc. From my experience, easyjet employs a lot of pilots from foreign countries in order to keep Balpa membership as low as possible within the airline. As suggested if Balpa were to offer free membership to non-members for a year, Easyjet would have to listen to Balpa. My advice is that there are a lot better jobs out there. You have good time off and get paid well. I left Easy and I can safely say that it was the best career move I have ever done. Easy will not change. Get out and have a life!
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Flying Quill,
Agree with you where rostering is concerned but have to disagree about seeing my bed every night! I have spent the last few months being shipped round various bases (not long stints I admit - 5 nights max) and in the summer I often arrive home 0400-0600 which is fine as long as you have no life, sleep all day and are ready to go back to work at 1700 same day. So if you are a single guy it's great.
The reality is alot of us have young kids so I am regularly short of sleep in the summer - not good. Last week I was twice back at work after 3-4 hours sleep max and on my last day I was struggling badly as was my F/O so I'm glad to be on my way.
Agree with you where rostering is concerned but have to disagree about seeing my bed every night! I have spent the last few months being shipped round various bases (not long stints I admit - 5 nights max) and in the summer I often arrive home 0400-0600 which is fine as long as you have no life, sleep all day and are ready to go back to work at 1700 same day. So if you are a single guy it's great.
The reality is alot of us have young kids so I am regularly short of sleep in the summer - not good. Last week I was twice back at work after 3-4 hours sleep max and on my last day I was struggling badly as was my F/O so I'm glad to be on my way.
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The grass is always greener, isn't it? I tend to agree with NSF, why don't those who are serving out their time let us all know where they are going and the T&Cs they are going to so that we can all judge for ourselves just how unfatigued and rich they are going to be.
Cheers all,
mcdhu
Cheers all,
mcdhu
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Apply to T-fly. I jumped ship to BAL mainline. T-fly have the same terms as mainline.
1/Block windows- if a duty changes by +/-2hrs of original time, you can refuse the duty.
2/The CC have just agreed that we will be rostered for 4 days work per week.With 3 guarnteed days off.
3/No standby- Offer your days off back and get a lump sum for your day off.
4/Gold and silver days off- 5 pairs of each. Golds you can book off up to a year in advance. Silver pairs up to 12 weeks in advance
5/Never rostered to start duty before 8amz after days off.Have to finish duty by 11z before days off.
6/42 days holiday per year.
7/Final salary pension scheme after two years service.
8/Time to command is very low. Lower than Easy. 3000hrs.
9/Possibility of going over to mainline. Rumour has it that we will have the B787 in 2008.
10/ You are not constantly knackered and will actually have a lot of time off.
11/ Cheap holidays
12/Good salary
The choice is yours! I made the right one and the change has been remarkable!I have a life now!!!!!
1/Block windows- if a duty changes by +/-2hrs of original time, you can refuse the duty.
2/The CC have just agreed that we will be rostered for 4 days work per week.With 3 guarnteed days off.
3/No standby- Offer your days off back and get a lump sum for your day off.
4/Gold and silver days off- 5 pairs of each. Golds you can book off up to a year in advance. Silver pairs up to 12 weeks in advance
5/Never rostered to start duty before 8amz after days off.Have to finish duty by 11z before days off.
6/42 days holiday per year.
7/Final salary pension scheme after two years service.
8/Time to command is very low. Lower than Easy. 3000hrs.
9/Possibility of going over to mainline. Rumour has it that we will have the B787 in 2008.
10/ You are not constantly knackered and will actually have a lot of time off.
11/ Cheap holidays
12/Good salary
The choice is yours! I made the right one and the change has been remarkable!I have a life now!!!!!
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..................and how do you find the day Tfs, Dlm, Lca, etc - never mind the night ones! I jumped the other way from a similar Airline to get out of them and have no regrets. As you say, its our choice.
Cheers,
mcdhu
Cheers,
mcdhu
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Mcdhu
TFS, LCA etc? What are they, 9-hour days? That's up to 2 1/2 hours shorter than the days I fly with EasyJet, and a lot less hassle.
I can confirm that CSDU made the right move. If I get one more smug phone call about how little he is doing for the amount of money he's getting, I will probably stuff his phone up his jacksy.
(Or maybe just keep crying!)
It may be comparing apples and oranges, but in the grand scheme of things, there is no comparison between Brits and Ezy, so why even bother arguing?
Keep enjoying T-Fly CS! (It can't last, surely?
)
TFS, LCA etc? What are they, 9-hour days? That's up to 2 1/2 hours shorter than the days I fly with EasyJet, and a lot less hassle.
I can confirm that CSDU made the right move. If I get one more smug phone call about how little he is doing for the amount of money he's getting, I will probably stuff his phone up his jacksy.
(Or maybe just keep crying!)It may be comparing apples and oranges, but in the grand scheme of things, there is no comparison between Brits and Ezy, so why even bother arguing?
Keep enjoying T-Fly CS! (It can't last, surely?
)
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This could be why the big sausage pilot churn out is happening at CTC, 24-35 cadets a year I believe. You guys will accept what ever because if you don't there are thousands of people willing to do it.
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You Gimboid,
Not quite. The average flying time from my log book for a Lca was about 4.35 out and 4.55 back so shall we call the block times 4.50 and 5.10. The duty, therefore, comes in at 12.30 or 12.00 Fdp - just do-able if you check in between 06 and 1759. Believe me, a night Lca is a mind bending experience!!
As to the hassle, I think you might find the incidence of 'air rage' (alcohol induced of course) and medical emergencies are quite high on holiday flying. Furthermore, if at a small base with 1 or 2 ac, once the programme starts to run late, it can knock on for days because there is no recovery time in the summer and no spare ac and then you are dealing with very cross punters!
My point is only that things on the other side of the fence are not always as rosy as those over there are prepared to admit. If thinking about jumping, do all possible research before committing.
Cheers all,
mcdhu
Not quite. The average flying time from my log book for a Lca was about 4.35 out and 4.55 back so shall we call the block times 4.50 and 5.10. The duty, therefore, comes in at 12.30 or 12.00 Fdp - just do-able if you check in between 06 and 1759. Believe me, a night Lca is a mind bending experience!!
As to the hassle, I think you might find the incidence of 'air rage' (alcohol induced of course) and medical emergencies are quite high on holiday flying. Furthermore, if at a small base with 1 or 2 ac, once the programme starts to run late, it can knock on for days because there is no recovery time in the summer and no spare ac and then you are dealing with very cross punters!
My point is only that things on the other side of the fence are not always as rosy as those over there are prepared to admit. If thinking about jumping, do all possible research before committing.
Cheers all,
mcdhu
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Mcdhu
Perhaps so. But two long sectors with two lots of passengers, and then home to bed sure beats 4 sectors in the same duty period, four different lots of pax with all their various problems..... and if you think holiday traffic creates lots of drunkenness and air rage, what the heck do you think happens when you're selling tickets at twenty quid each way to AMS, PRG, SXF etc?
As I said before, it's apples and oranges, but the hassle factor is astronomical in both cases!
Perhaps so. But two long sectors with two lots of passengers, and then home to bed sure beats 4 sectors in the same duty period, four different lots of pax with all their various problems..... and if you think holiday traffic creates lots of drunkenness and air rage, what the heck do you think happens when you're selling tickets at twenty quid each way to AMS, PRG, SXF etc?
As I said before, it's apples and oranges, but the hassle factor is astronomical in both cases!
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I prefer longer flights. You have got a fighting chance of reading the paper.
I would much prefer to do flights to Larnaca, Luxor etc eight times per month than do 60 to 70 sectors! The advantage of doing longer flights i.e. caa level 2 variations, is that you get a day off before and after.
My life has completely changed, I am now far more relaxed and have a social life. Night flights are not for everyone! I remember joining Easy. they stated that if you were a family man, it was fantastic as you never did any night flying and were always back home every evening. Hairy b......s!I left Easy after flying 1350 hrs in 21 months 950 hrs were at night. At least I get to see Eastenders and the Bill. failing that you can find me at my local.
Anyway, the majority of the flights range from between 1.5 hrs to 3.5 hrs. Which means duty periods of between 5 to 10 hrs!
I would much prefer to do flights to Larnaca, Luxor etc eight times per month than do 60 to 70 sectors! The advantage of doing longer flights i.e. caa level 2 variations, is that you get a day off before and after.
My life has completely changed, I am now far more relaxed and have a social life. Night flights are not for everyone! I remember joining Easy. they stated that if you were a family man, it was fantastic as you never did any night flying and were always back home every evening. Hairy b......s!I left Easy after flying 1350 hrs in 21 months 950 hrs were at night. At least I get to see Eastenders and the Bill. failing that you can find me at my local.
Anyway, the majority of the flights range from between 1.5 hrs to 3.5 hrs. Which means duty periods of between 5 to 10 hrs!