British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1
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Wobble thank you for your reply. Yes I am flying with easy and really want to leave, too much work for very little money. Also a lot of arrogant people here who cant fly.
I will await a reply from ba and decide then.
Thank you
I will await a reply from ba and decide then.
Thank you
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Wobble thank you for your reply. Yes I am flying with easy and really want to leave, too much work for very little money. Also a lot of arrogant people here who cant fly.
BA....18 years ago on shorthaul......350 yrs a year
BA....12 years ago on 744.............800 yrs a year
BA.....now.............on 777.............850 yrs a year
source: Hunterboy
BA....12 years ago on 744.............800 yrs a year
BA.....now.............on 777.............850 yrs a year
source: Hunterboy
Come to LGW. 700hrs per year, no final salary pension, and home each night - If you love your wife/husband/kids, whats not to like?
Sorry to hijack the thread.....
Last edited by Craggenmore; 5th Nov 2008 at 21:53.
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Craggenmore,
Whilst I agree with you penny pinching dross idea I have to say that comparing BA to EZY based purely on flying hours is a little wide of the mark.
Certainly one can't compare 850 hours per year on the 777 to 800 a year on SH Airbus. Also bear in mind that the hours flown are credited flying hours using a minimum block time for short trips to say Manchester where the minimum credited block will be 4:30 and you start to see where the 800-850 hours comes from. Any company would not be pulling its weight if they under utilised an expensive asset such as pilots. Add to that the flexibility of the Heathrow Bidline system and the roster compilation becomes your own.
This is why seniority becomes king in BA. The higher your seniority is dictates which of the lines of work you bid for comes your way. If you bid for all day trips with all weekends off then, if you are senior enough, you will get them. The roster is rock stable and, if required, you can trip swop or drop trips. If you move fleet from SH to LH you take your seniority with you and hence your bidding position.
Also hours flown on the 777/747 are factored in a totally different way to SH. The pay is higher as the achieved 'sectors' doesn't deliver the same bonus as on SH. Also there are alot of 'heavy' crew where half of the flight is in the bunk. Alot of flight crew take their other half with them and, in many cases with my friends, their wife writes the bid for them choosing the places to go and visit.
Hotels in BA are run by a seperate department. All the flight crew hotels both SH and LH are in the city. There are no airport hotels. Night stops can be in any of the major capitals of Europe and world wide. Crew transport is clean and reliable and the social aspect,even on SH, is generally excellent.
To sum up. You can be home every night if you wish to be. It does sometimes take time to climb the list but the effort is worth it. SH can be a tourist tour of Europe. Socialising is always to the individuals taste, there may be many who wish to stay in the hotels. But above all in BA seniority is KING. Start building it as soon as you can and it will follow you through the company dictating the path of your career.
W2P
Fingers hurt now from the typing
Whilst I agree with you penny pinching dross idea I have to say that comparing BA to EZY based purely on flying hours is a little wide of the mark.
Certainly one can't compare 850 hours per year on the 777 to 800 a year on SH Airbus. Also bear in mind that the hours flown are credited flying hours using a minimum block time for short trips to say Manchester where the minimum credited block will be 4:30 and you start to see where the 800-850 hours comes from. Any company would not be pulling its weight if they under utilised an expensive asset such as pilots. Add to that the flexibility of the Heathrow Bidline system and the roster compilation becomes your own.
This is why seniority becomes king in BA. The higher your seniority is dictates which of the lines of work you bid for comes your way. If you bid for all day trips with all weekends off then, if you are senior enough, you will get them. The roster is rock stable and, if required, you can trip swop or drop trips. If you move fleet from SH to LH you take your seniority with you and hence your bidding position.
Also hours flown on the 777/747 are factored in a totally different way to SH. The pay is higher as the achieved 'sectors' doesn't deliver the same bonus as on SH. Also there are alot of 'heavy' crew where half of the flight is in the bunk. Alot of flight crew take their other half with them and, in many cases with my friends, their wife writes the bid for them choosing the places to go and visit.
Hotels in BA are run by a seperate department. All the flight crew hotels both SH and LH are in the city. There are no airport hotels. Night stops can be in any of the major capitals of Europe and world wide. Crew transport is clean and reliable and the social aspect,even on SH, is generally excellent.
To sum up. You can be home every night if you wish to be. It does sometimes take time to climb the list but the effort is worth it. SH can be a tourist tour of Europe. Socialising is always to the individuals taste, there may be many who wish to stay in the hotels. But above all in BA seniority is KING. Start building it as soon as you can and it will follow you through the company dictating the path of your career.
W2P
Fingers hurt now from the typing
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The Company wants us to and since they pay my wages, I wear it.
Simple as.
Its a good job BA longhaul but be prepared to work for it. Being junior however isn't fun, I have had 4 weekends (clear weekends) off this year outside of leave.
Be prepared to do a lot of dross!
Simple as.
Its a good job BA longhaul but be prepared to work for it. Being junior however isn't fun, I have had 4 weekends (clear weekends) off this year outside of leave.
Be prepared to do a lot of dross!
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As I said, the start isn't fun! It takes time to climb the ladder and the raising of the retirement age has slowed things down a bit. Once you are there though the lifestyle choice becomes far easier and the effort all the more worthwhile.
The main point of the above though was to point out that waiting for your 'preferred job' is better done inside the company than without.
And yes we do still have to wear hats. Though mine seems to have been misplaced somewhere
Forgot to add, I don't think it's a dream job, I don't think a 'dream job' exists, it's not, however, too bad considering what else is around in this industry. Oh and the pay's not too bad either.
The main point of the above though was to point out that waiting for your 'preferred job' is better done inside the company than without.
And yes we do still have to wear hats. Though mine seems to have been misplaced somewhere
Forgot to add, I don't think it's a dream job, I don't think a 'dream job' exists, it's not, however, too bad considering what else is around in this industry. Oh and the pay's not too bad either.
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Old(er) people
Does anybody else share the opinion that all those pilots who are approaching age 55 or who are already past it (so to speak), and who had already made provisions to retire at age 55 should make way for the younger?
From an economic vantage point, these folks are costing BA a LOT of money on the top payscale (and wages form the highest expense in the business, exceeded only in recent times by fuel bills, I believe) when more junior captains could take their place. This in turn would create a marvellous ripple effect all the way through the company down to recruitment.
I appreciate that for many, their pension funds may have shrunk in very recent times. However I hold this as an argument that these folks shouldn't have been so greedy and should have retired when they originally expected. That is, of course, if their pensions have been affected at all.
From an economic vantage point, these folks are costing BA a LOT of money on the top payscale (and wages form the highest expense in the business, exceeded only in recent times by fuel bills, I believe) when more junior captains could take their place. This in turn would create a marvellous ripple effect all the way through the company down to recruitment.
I appreciate that for many, their pension funds may have shrunk in very recent times. However I hold this as an argument that these folks shouldn't have been so greedy and should have retired when they originally expected. That is, of course, if their pensions have been affected at all.
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ottoVB
Until you get there? When the kids have moved away, the house is paid for and the LH captaincy provide the opportunity to travel the world with the wife and enjoy the sights and sounds?
Many people have their retirement tied into pensions, mortgage payments and school fees. The rubbish that Gordo Brown has caused with his stealth raids on private pension funds has thrown that to the dogs.
As to greed, the current NAPs pension holders are having to double their personal pension payments AND work until 60/65 to achieve a pension slightly less than or, at the best, equal to their original pension deal. Greed? I think not. If you wish to look at greed within pensions look at the gilt edged, final salary pension of our dear New Labour MP's. Which, ironically, was the very first policy passed by Cronie Blairs New Labour upon taking power.
I am sure you will be so magnanimous when it's your turn.
Until you get there? When the kids have moved away, the house is paid for and the LH captaincy provide the opportunity to travel the world with the wife and enjoy the sights and sounds?
Many people have their retirement tied into pensions, mortgage payments and school fees. The rubbish that Gordo Brown has caused with his stealth raids on private pension funds has thrown that to the dogs.
As to greed, the current NAPs pension holders are having to double their personal pension payments AND work until 60/65 to achieve a pension slightly less than or, at the best, equal to their original pension deal. Greed? I think not. If you wish to look at greed within pensions look at the gilt edged, final salary pension of our dear New Labour MP's. Which, ironically, was the very first policy passed by Cronie Blairs New Labour upon taking power.
I am sure you will be so magnanimous when it's your turn.
OttoVb......It doesn't really matter what our opinions of senior or merely post 55 year old pilots is working past retirement age. Remember some of them may have joined the company at age 40 or 50. Do you push them out of the door too? This is exactly why the age legislation has been brought in.
It prevents management with opinions similar to yours and with big bonuses to be earnt, from forcibly retiring people before state mandatory retirement age.
Unfortunately, we are all in a period of transition, coinciding with what looks to be a long recession. It is very difficult to see light at the end of some tunnels, but my opinion is we are stuck with the legislation we have, and we will all just have to learn to adapt. Standard human evolution?
It prevents management with opinions similar to yours and with big bonuses to be earnt, from forcibly retiring people before state mandatory retirement age.
Unfortunately, we are all in a period of transition, coinciding with what looks to be a long recession. It is very difficult to see light at the end of some tunnels, but my opinion is we are stuck with the legislation we have, and we will all just have to learn to adapt. Standard human evolution?
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Simply talking about those who had already made provisions to retire at 55 when their pensions were still healthy before this economic debacle and had also been expecting to retire at 55 for most of their careers.
It was really just a comment on human nature (which probably won't evolve with any haste for the foreseeable future), I don't actually hold it against any individual.
But wouldn't it just help out everybody else junior in the company and those in the pool?
It was really just a comment on human nature (which probably won't evolve with any haste for the foreseeable future), I don't actually hold it against any individual.
But wouldn't it just help out everybody else junior in the company and those in the pool?
Last edited by ottoVB; 6th Nov 2008 at 15:03.
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OttoVB,
Understand that fully, unfortunately the company financial department at BA doesn't! Those that did provision for their retirement at 55 suddenly found that the pension they relied upon was worth less that half of its projected value. Due to insufficient investment by the company leading to the infamous 'Pension deficit with an airline attached' headline. The 'rescue' package is painful to swallow and basically means that most pilots will have to work at least 5 years longer with most 8-10 years longer to re-coup their original pension.
Hence the reason for many to go beyond 55. It's not greed, it just goes back to BA's lack of investment in the pension fund.
Understand that fully, unfortunately the company financial department at BA doesn't! Those that did provision for their retirement at 55 suddenly found that the pension they relied upon was worth less that half of its projected value. Due to insufficient investment by the company leading to the infamous 'Pension deficit with an airline attached' headline. The 'rescue' package is painful to swallow and basically means that most pilots will have to work at least 5 years longer with most 8-10 years longer to re-coup their original pension.
Hence the reason for many to go beyond 55. It's not greed, it just goes back to BA's lack of investment in the pension fund.
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Craggenmore
Craggenmore thank you for your post. I am based in LGW and I know who your are. The roster is good but the earlies are a very hard work for not much money. I also find a lot of difficult captains in LGW.
BA sounds the best of a bad lot. Lets hope I get the 744
BA sounds the best of a bad lot. Lets hope I get the 744
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Bahee96
have you read and understood any of the above posts? you say "hope for the 747-400" when some of my colleagues above have clearly stated this fleet is already in surplus with hulls being stood down.
have you read and understood any of the above posts? you say "hope for the 747-400" when some of my colleagues above have clearly stated this fleet is already in surplus with hulls being stood down.
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Bahee 96
For the sake of any remaining ambiguity, and I don't enjoy being a messenger of bad news, but....
I know for a fact that those people who started in September and early October and who were originally offered the 747 and 777 have all now been reasigned to A320 courses. You will not be offered the 747. In fact you are unlikely to be offered anything until early Spring '09 at the soonest.
Sorry about that, but it's better that you are aware of how things stand. For what it's worth I concur with those that have said take whatever is offered first and bid for a change once in the Co.
I know for a fact that those people who started in September and early October and who were originally offered the 747 and 777 have all now been reasigned to A320 courses. You will not be offered the 747. In fact you are unlikely to be offered anything until early Spring '09 at the soonest.
Sorry about that, but it's better that you are aware of how things stand. For what it's worth I concur with those that have said take whatever is offered first and bid for a change once in the Co.
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I do not agree to take whatever comes first. I will not wait another 5 years for long haul. BA is not the only airline that offers long haul. It makes me laugh that all you british think BA is the only airline on the planet!!!
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It may not be the only one, but if things keep going the way they are, it may well be one of few (within Europe, certainly!!).
I was once like you, with the belief that LH was the be all and end all of life. I have, happily, been converted and am enjoying the variety of destinations and, dare I say, the pace of life in SH. I'm sure that'll change as winter starts to bite, but for now I'm more than happy to build my seniority here.
I was once like you, with the belief that LH was the be all and end all of life. I have, happily, been converted and am enjoying the variety of destinations and, dare I say, the pace of life in SH. I'm sure that'll change as winter starts to bite, but for now I'm more than happy to build my seniority here.
Bahee96.....we are trying to help you here....As previous posters mentioned...you will not get a 747 position in BA for the foreseeable future. If you want to wait your turn and build seniority, then BA may be a good opportunity for you. If longhaul is so important to you, then perhaps EK, EY, or the Indian carriers may suit you better.
However, the life of an expat pilot is not what is was, especially in countries that are perceived as less enlightened in the racism stakes. In their country, you will be the foreigner. A quick look at the Middle East and Indian forums may open your eyes a little. Alternatively, Iberia is a nice slot if you have connections.
However, the life of an expat pilot is not what is was, especially in countries that are perceived as less enlightened in the racism stakes. In their country, you will be the foreigner. A quick look at the Middle East and Indian forums may open your eyes a little. Alternatively, Iberia is a nice slot if you have connections.
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Beware the ex-pat First Officer positions. As far as I am aware NO Indian carrier promotes ex-pat FO's before local FO's.
If you don't go there as a DEC then check the Terms and Conditions with a fine tooth comb!
Also, if you want to go and play in the sand pit, check the terms and conditions for the Gulf carriers carefully. As has already been said, they are not what they used to be.
I don't think BA is the 'be all and end all' of LH carriers. Like all big companies it has its warts. It is, at the moment, a stable company that has at least still returned a profit, if somewhat diminished, in these trading conditions.
Big change is in the wind at BA.
If you don't go there as a DEC then check the Terms and Conditions with a fine tooth comb!
Also, if you want to go and play in the sand pit, check the terms and conditions for the Gulf carriers carefully. As has already been said, they are not what they used to be.
I don't think BA is the 'be all and end all' of LH carriers. Like all big companies it has its warts. It is, at the moment, a stable company that has at least still returned a profit, if somewhat diminished, in these trading conditions.
Big change is in the wind at BA.
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As I trundled past 27L threshold yesterday, couldn't help but notice the 10-12 744 parked up in the maint parking area and a mate says there are another 5 or so at Cardiff. Are these the hulls that have been grounded indefinately ?
And if so is there a surplus of crews on longhaul at the moment ?
Jenson
And if so is there a surplus of crews on longhaul at the moment ?
Jenson