Good suggestion Vilas, thanks a ton, your suggestions are extremely valuable. I would be well served if I could imbibe these when I soon transition to the left.

Check Airman
I am in agreement with you that briefing cannot include everything that can go wrong. But GA is not too distant a possibility on any approach. When an aircraft has two distinct procedures for GA it's good thing to include both in the briefing. It's not a new information to be memorized but only reminder of a procedure that the pilots must already know. It should not burden human short term memory.

From the FCTM:

I think this should be read that the ATC required speed can indeed be selected on the FCU, but that the aircraft flap position should respect the 'S' and 'F' speeds. - i.e. below 'S' speed, flap 2 should be selected.

I don't think the intention is ever to fly around in extended flight below 'S' speed with only Flap 1 selected. Not a good idea chaps.

Bit like flying around in a Boeing at VREF + 40 with flap 1, when the flaps should be at 5. It's not done.

As a separate discussion, regarding a go-around in flaps 1:

- It's the actual slats or flaps position that determines whether SRS is available. Anything apart from clean will generate it.
- So the the thrust levers need to be in the TOGA detent with MAN TOGA annunciated before the wing is fully clean. Common sense would suggest making the "go-around flaps" call after MAN TOGA is annunciated .

That's not what it says though, does it?

There are some airports that routinely have you low and slow on arrival for an extended time. No reason to add drag while you're doing it in my opinion.

Disagree - it says the speed can be selected.

It's up to you to look after the flaps.

Good luck with your technique as the speed comes down to VLS in turbulence etc. with slats only extended. I won't be flying with you.:uhoh:

Dale, come on. There is around 40 knots between S speed and Vls. And I do think you are reading the sentence incorrectly.

Flying below manouvering speed for a given conf is not a problem, VLS (or the proximity of) is the reasonable slow limit.

Dale
Not true at all. It's the lever position and not the surface position that allows GA to be available. Even with slats and flaps jammed at the zero flap lever is moved to one to make GA mode available. While airbus has amply clarified that one can fly below F and S speed but when it is required for sustained period appropriate Conf should be selected.

So what if the speed comes down to VLS? It's the minimum selected speed. You can actually fly below VLS even so it's obviously not recommended to do it on purpose . It's V&prot you should be more concerned. Always amazed me how people are concerned to be flying close to VLS or Green Dot at low altitude in calm conditions when you have so much extra power available.. GD, F & S speeds are your target speed on single engine... So with 2 engines, unless you fly into threatening turbulence, it's very acceptable to fly at or below manoeuvring speed if required as the FCTM clearly states. Flying in China, they often asked you to slow down to 180kts when you are still 50nm out. On an A321, would mean at least flaps 2 if we would fly above manoeuvring speed. Well no thanks!! I rather save fuel and the environment.:p
Heard some guys used to set flaps 2 then back to flaps 1 to have 1+F during the approach but they got snapped by the training division for doing that. I beleive it's not recommended by Airbus, but I can't find any official documentations about it.

The flap lever will obviously be in the one detent or greater, but it is indeed whether the wing is clean or not which determines whether SRS is available.

It's in the FCTM somewhere - don't have one in front of me right now

Sorry it is not correct. Flying below GD, F, S and VLS is not the same. Flying below VLS is not permitted nor desired. This is like saying Vapp is not important you should worry about stick shaker. Very unsafe habit.
Arctaurus
It's nowhere in FCTM and don't bother searching you won't find it. It's not the wing but only Flap lever 1 or more gives you SRS.

Arctaurus
From FCOM DSC-22_30-80-40 P 1/2

Hello Vilas, =)

I did not express myself clearly: Yes we shall definitely not fly below VLS. What I try to say is that if for example you are flying with A/THR off and your speed drops slightly below VLS, There is no reason to panic, the aircraft is not going to be on an undesired state as long actions are taken without undue delay. the FCTM states that VAPP can be as low as VLS in case of A/THR off, no ice acreation etc... Surely if your target speed is VLS, they might consider the fact you might fly below it inadvertently. I personally always keep a nice minimum of 5 kt margin from VLS regardless of the kind of the approach. I rather have too much energy than too little.

Not looking for an argument.

DSC 22_20-60-40 Flight guidance (extract only)

15 ° when the aircraft speed is below the maneuvering speeds (F, S, or Green Dot speed) -10 kt
Then linear increase to 25 ° up to maneuvering speeds (F, S, or Green Dot speed) -3 kt
25 ° above maneuvering speeds (F, S, or Green Dot speed) -3 kt.

Just to show that Airbus describe them as manoeuvring speeds no matter how they spell it.

Attachment 3310

The double use of the same term is somewhat unfortunate. But we can always have at the definitions chapter as well:

Attachment 3311

I found this in the FCTM:

FCOM clearly states that SRS will engage as long as you are not in clean configuration. Also in the ABN- Flaps/slats locked at zero it says to set at least the flaps lever to 1 purely in case of Go around to get the go around mode engaged when you set TOGA. So It's definetely regardless of the actual slats/flaps postion.

Arctaurus and mrs nomer
Not your fault, surely you will find it in FCTM. But it is one big howler by Airbus. It is simply not true. Not because I say so but because FCOM says so, because with slat and flaps jammed even at 0 zero Abnormal procedures ask you to select flap1 to get GA mode. Also FCTM says the following:
So the matter should end there.

Thumbs up for Vilas the A320 Master! :p

DSC 22_30-80-40 Go-around.

Setting at least one thrust lever to the TOGA detent engages both SRS/NAV modes, if:
The flaps lever is at least in position 1, and
The aircraft is in flight, or
The aircraft has been on ground for less than 30 s (AP disengages and can be re-engaged 5 s after lift-off).

Pretty clear I would say (My bold).

well, in real life getting an instruction being on glide but in 2500 ft ( very very uncommon atc gives you such a thing ) to go around ( which is more an instruction to abort the approach than immediately go around in this scenario ) of course there is no need to apply toga and trigger the speed and pitch commands on the airbus but simply to stop descend and smoothly climb out again . adjust vertical speed, adjust flaps as needed and do a normal climbout .

the airbus definition to "go around" is a scenario on short final , being fully configured and at approach speed. in this case the airbus design logic and instructions fully apply .

who gives toga being at 2500ft and roughly 6-8 miles from the threshold at 160 kts ?

this scenario and the thoughts about it seem to be purely theoretical.

best regards

lurkio
It is true They are described as manoeuvre speeds. Airbus 17th Performance and operations conference Dubai gives a detailed description of what they are and how to use them. Extract below:

Vilas, thank you for that. You have mentioned this conference a couple of times, where can we have a look at the report or details?
Always good to learn.

Check the other thread I quoted some more info about this. You can check on this: https://www.scribd.com/document/1829...tic-speeds-pdf

Sincere thanks vilas.

Low Speed Protection
 

In this case as the VLS increase the airplane will pitch down to let the IAS increase together with the VLS. Anyway there is also another procedure that airbus use for this kind of scenario, the name is discontinue approach (you simple press approach and the airplane goes back to heading and vertical speed, no flaps retraction anything, then if you need to climb just pull for open climb and that is all).

PILOTINHO
This discussion is going round in circles like a cat trying to catch it's own tail. To recap everything, it started with, we are at 2500ft at CONF1 (below FAP of 3000ft) and ATC gives you speed constraint of 150kts. First, no constraints are given once on the glide. Second, if constraint was given the obvious course is to select CONF2, albeit 500ft higher or 30seconds earlier from the desired height of 2000ft. If you are that fuel conscious delay the gear a bit. Third, If asked to GA just leave the flap as it is since it is retracted purely for MA gradient. Now you are suggesting open climb which is in THRCLB. What happens to the gradient? If it meets then why we GA with MAN TOGA at all? Discontinue approach is an option only if FCU altitude is at or below aircraft altitude. Below FCU altitude standard GA is mandatory.

ATC giving you speed constraints of 160 to 4, 170 to 5 or 180 to 6 on the glide is a normal daily occurrence in Europe at busy airports. It's either published in the AOI of the airfield or they'll instruct it once you're establishing.

Unfortunately it is SOP in my company, one of the largest narrow isle Airbus operators, to TOGA our way out of every missed approach.
We used to be able to discontinue an approach (pushing V/S 0 etc), but that was taken away from us when below missed approach altitude. Now it's TOGA, even 6 miles out.

Aerobat 77. I’d be interest how you are going to get the bus out of the approach phase by doing that.

Activate the secondary..or enter a new cruise alt.

Or tap toga :)