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-   -   RR Griffon and prop rotation (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/544137-rr-griffon-prop-rotation.html)

DaveReidUK 29th July 2014 18:38


I also discovered the P38 is not the only aircraft to have used twin counter rotating Allisons - the F82 used them too.
With the props on the F-82 rotating in the conventional C/R manner - down blade inboard (opposite of the P-38).

Ulric 29th July 2014 18:43

The story of that difference in rotation is interesting in it's own right. When the F82 was first test flown, it refused to lift off. They discovered that the prop wash negated the lift on the centre wing section. Reversing the propeller rotations restored the lift and everything then worked as it should.

Brian Abraham 30th July 2014 03:52


Okay now I'm even more confused; looking at pics of the P38 the unfortunate pilot seems to be faced with TWO critical engines as each are outward turning. Maybe something to do with the twin fin configuration? As I grow older and dimmer the world makes less and less sense
You are quite correct that the P-38 had two critical engines, but all for a very good reason. The prototype had its engines rotating in the reverse direction to the production version ie no critical engine. Following the loss of the prototype wind tunnel work found the rotation that applied to the production version made for a more stable gun platform due to the properties of the pitching moment. So don't fear, the world makes complete sense. :ok:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...m227/s0009.jpg

LeadSled 30th July 2014 07:27

Folks,
I believe that, if you go further back into the history of the Griffin and, later, the Merlin, you will find in RAF specs. the notion that the Griffin would be too powerful for a fighter (??? I know, but I am only the messenger) as a "36 litre class engine", therefor a "24 litre class engine" should be developed, which became the Merlin.

As many of you will know, there were serious problems with the early Merlin development, up to and including into Squadron service. It is reasonable to say that many of the production standards problem with the Merlin were only (partly) solved when they were "productionized" by Ford of UK, and Packard later introduced further improvements.

As references, see "Not Much Of an Engineer", Sir Stanley Hooker, and the autobiography of Wing Commander Rod Banks, the fuel expert, and inter-war representative of International Octel.

Brian Abraham 30th July 2014 09:19

Development of the Griffon did not come until much later than the Merlin, and was to meet an FAA requirement, rather than the RAF. Following the 'R' engine an engine called the Griffon was built prior to the Merlin, but went no further and had no relaitionship to the Griffon that went into production.


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