BAe146
 

aerobat77 said
"on the bae146 we had a procedure for exact this situation . when fire warning was triggered- thrust lever idle and fire handle to the first detent what automatically cuts the bleed air."

May I suggest that you re-view your technical manual.

Pulling the fire handle out to the initial baulk, operates a micro-switch that lights "ENG FIRE HANDLE" annunciator on the MWS.

Remember "White over Red"

This is so the Handling pilot dose not have to look up to confirm that the correct handle has been pulled!

the second detent, or full travel, 3 additional micro-switches operate that:
(a) close bleed air
(b) trip Engine driven Gen on engine 1 & 4
(c) close Hyd systems on engine 2 & 3

and then rotating left or right 90 degrees fires bottle 1 or 2

Thanx grounded27

My experience with fire loops is quite limited, but my memory is;

1. With dual podded engines there have been several accidents where one engine failed and the wrong engine shutdown due to interpretation of the fire alarm. B52, B1, etc.

2. Smoke in cockpit from an engine fire that was not detected due to fireloop placement only near hot section

3. Fireloops that no longer function when the engine nacelle leaves, but the fire remains.

4. Fires that spread to composite reverser cascades on the ground that are difficult to detect and extiniguish

BOAC
it doesn't matter if i am or not a 777 pilot. what i mean "i think " is how they disign the CHECKLIST, not the airplane.
is it a shame to ask something you don't know here?

yes someone posted it on

Actually, it does say what to do.

- yes. The point you have missed is that

1) If you are not an 'ATPL' qualified 'Captain' as you claim to be say so OR
2) You are operating a B777 and thus have access to all the documentation and training staff you need

Either you are incredibly poorly trained or have not absorbed ANY of your training and should not be operating OR you need to be asking your question in a different forum in a different way.. Which is it? Read Denti/4 Jan again? Honesty is the best policy.

@ hedgehopper : very good posting which shows that you know what you are talking about ! was you in the mighty simulators in manchester at bae systems or where do you have this details from about the bae146?

its pretty right what you write about the "white over red" - the first detent also activates this light which is above the fire warning light - here i must say its a very good idea to visually confirm you are about to pull the correct fire handle.

when it comes to bleed air cut on the first detent i,m pretty but no absolutely sure since i,m not current anymore on this plane, but i still have the training documents from eurowings and baesystems so i can check and report .

definitivly the bae146 has a procedure for checking a bleed air leak , we trained this at manchester many times. and definitivly its procedúre not to shut when you can isolate this leak by cutting bleed air. when you can not isolate the leak its procedure to shut.

best regards !

I don't know what Wingtip's quals are, but what he posted is exactly what my current QRH shows. The first place where you have any choice about what to do is step 5 where is says ff the message stays shown to fire the bottle.

- so that is exactly what you are expected to do. What exactly is the issue here?

I don't know what's happened to PPRuNe lately but there appears to be a flight simmers takeover. Along with some very ill informed rubbish spouted from people who should know better.

There isn't a jet flying that was certified in the last 30 years that doesn't demand a shutdown for an engine fire warning. No matter how brief the warning was. There is some variation as to whether the extinguisher is fired after the engine is isolated but in most cases it is.

It would take a very brave(foolish) man to keep an engine running for no better reason than the warning went out.

Here is a summary of a few QRH:

BBJ/73 classic/73 NG - shut it down and if the fire switch light or ENG OVERHEAT light stays illuminated use the extinguisher
Avro RJ (aerobat77 take note) - shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
Embraer 145 and Ejet - Shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
l1011 shut it down and fire the extinguisher.
A330 (RR) shut it down and fire the extinguisher.

Get the picture?

thats pretty right.

lol, what an efford for probably just flight simulation purposes, but ok, i,m home again and looked at the bae146 type rating documents . some pictures may clarify more than writing romans... here we go


http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8272/img012vs.th.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8...15kopie.th.jpg

so some facts , but in regards only to the Bae146 :

-hedgehopper was right, the first detent of the fire handle does not trip bleed air , it just shows "white over red" for confirmation you pull the right handle.

-the bae 146, like mentioned by me above does not require a shutdown with a bleed air leak when you can isolate it and requires a shutdown when you cannot isolate it . in every case when a bleed air leak occours turn bleed air off at this engine. further it has a separate warning system for bleed air leaks ( pylon overheat) and a separate procedure for dealing with it.

-at a real engine fire of course shut the engine but, aerobat noted :

ONLY fire the extinguisher when fire warning persists after shutdown by pulling the fire handle to full detent ( note three ) . so dear fe hoppy, be more careful next time .:cool:

nice weekend to all !

Your checklist is out of date my friend.

that maybe, like mentioned not current anymore on the bae146, since three years a "downgrade" to corporate aviation on a cheyenne III.

but the procedure did not changed, you do not shut on this aircraft an engine for a bleed air leak that you can isolate and you only fire a bottle when fire warning after shutdown continues my friend.

cheers

All these itchy trigger fingers scare the sh%te out of me.

BOAC
so give a good anwser thant everyone will agree with to this question if you are well trained.

As BOAC says, follow the QRH. If circumstances make it obvious that following the QRH may not be the safest thing to do, then do the safest thing. That's the answer.

Not a bad answer, but most of the discussion examines how do you decide what is the safest course and when to vary from the QRH.

If we don't have these discussions than you might be a free range cowboy and flunk your next sim test :)