This just in....
 

Doing some late night research on Wiki I found this:

I could not find any primary reference to quote, but it makes me wonder why in hell the Russians don't just use WGS-84. In any case, WGS-84 is the standard, by ICAO agreement.

GF

Their System....
 

Any chance they have this set up for 'their' tactical system instead?

Probably, but I don't see the point. Everywhere in the RF and China has been extensively mapped and put into WGS-84 by us, so they aren't hiding anything, anymore. If they want to use different datums, just have the equipment set to change datums. We could do it in the A-10 in 1986, it's nothing dramatic.

GF

GPS v Galileo v Russian system
 

Probably for similar reasons we have Microsoft & Apple, (or had Betamax and VHS). Why is a system based on where the Poles where in 1900 or 1984 any better than a modern system?

Europe is building its own satellite navigation system called Galileo. It will consist of 30 satellites and the first should be launched in 2010, with the system operational at the end of 2013. Total cost about 4.9 bn EUR.

From NewScientist 20May 2009 : "
DON'T take your satnav for granted. Existing satellites are ageing, and replacements are behind schedule and over budget, according to a report from the US Government Accountability Office (GAO).

Satnavs and other GPS devices calculate their position by comparing time signals from at least four satellites. To keep that many within range at all times requires a fleet of at least 24. For now there are 31 operating, but 13 of them are more than four years past their design lifetime.

The first replacement "block IIF" satellites are not due to launch till November, three years behind schedule, and the GAO predicts a 20 per cent chance that the fleet will drop below 24 at times in 2011 and 2012. That wouldn't cause GPS to shut down, but its accuracy would drop unpredictably.

Plans by the US air force for the next generation of improved "block IIIA" satellites could also fall behind. The GAO calculates that if they slip by just two years, there is a 90 per cent chance that the fleet will drop below 24 in 2018."

LIDO Route Manual RAR Appendix G

RUSSIA
is using “The Parameters of the Earth - 1990 (PZ-90) which is practically identical to WGS-84.

Regards

TOD

TOD

For those of us without LIDO, can you post the complete quote or a link?

This could generate a big change in aircraft limitations.

GF

GF,
why do we have 2 or even more, for example, hydraulic system in aircraft? and so on

Because an hydraulic system can fail and we need a back-up. Once the Earth is surveyed, how would the coordinate system fail? The satellites might not be there or fail, but lat/longs are just there.

Perhaps, the RF should just roll into the ICAO and use WGS-84, there is no advantage to holding onto a datum that is just a duplicate of it.

BTW, I quite agree that the three systems are needed and should seamlessly integrate because GPS was never intended to be used as it is now being used. And that is one of the reasons for objections to it.

GF

Like temperature in degs C and F, or pressure in mbs and inches of Hg, or mass in Kgs and Lbs.

I'm really looking forward to the day when there is just one agreed datum - but I won't be holding my breath.

Rudderrat

Technically, the ICAO is standardized on Hpa and Mbs is a UK exception. And so is inches in the US, an exception. I still call it millibars, though. Kgs is a unit of mass, while Lbs is a unit of Force. 1 kg would be the same here or on the moon, while a pound here is 1/6th of a pound on the moon.

GF

.. some of us still think in slugs and poundals, not to mention forces due to the flickering of a newt's whiskers, ergs, and so forth.

If disciplines ever end up with uniform units there will be no remaining mysteries nor any useful things to pontificate over a beer at the bar on Saturday night for old chaps.

Younger chaps can always find merit in the appearance of the young lady at the other end of the bar, of course ...

While I can't be sure about the Russian Federation standard datum, I know that the Papua New Guinea WGS-84 survey was locally referred to as PNG-94 (the year in which the survey was initiated). Perhaps the RF did something similar for local consumption while, at the same time, complying with the ICAO standard of WGS-84.

Hi GF, as requested the entire page with the reference

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...es/LIDORAR.jpg

Only because it's Newton's birthday today :
 

Hi GF,

A mass of one pound will still have the same mass wherever it is (earth, moon, in orbit in the space station etc.) However it will only weigh 1/6 of it's weight on the moon as compared to earth, (Likewise 1 kg will only weigh 1/6 on the moon). Both will be weightless in the space station.

GF,
The satellites might not be there or fail, but lat/longs are just there.

We will roll in but Is WGS84 ICAO standart or recommedation? I think the last one.

I asked about hydraulic meaning not system redundancy. It is something more important, something with world monopoly. When monopolist after some time starts thinking that his democracy is the most democratic in the world, his english is englisher than in England he tend to think that oil in another country is their oil because this part of the world is just coordinated in WGS84.

Don't take these words seriously - we are not soviet militarists anymore:), I just want to show that alternatives are very important sometimes despite he fact their are stupid.

Thanks very much, TOD

Boroda

But, WGS-84 is not a monopoly, it is not even a tradable good, it just IS. ICAO cannot dictate anything, but as a Standard and Recommended Practice, the ICAO said aviation will use WGS-84. Hell, we could use Argentine 1925, just as long as everyone's equipment is compatible and we are all using the same thing.

Considering PZ-90 has been modified to nearly conform with WGS-84, the only alternative we are talking about here is a name. Let's just call it "Fred's Lat/Long System".

GF

What..??
 

Galaxy...have you got some kind of 'backroom' deal going with Fred. I know that Dave has a good system, too!:)

777AV8R

I picked FRED, well my handle should explain it all. Check your PMs, I sent one.

GF

Borda,

ICAO specifies the World Geodetic System 1984 (WGS-84) - or equivalent - as the geodetic reference datum Standard for air navigation latitude/longitude coordinates

Source for your statement
 

Hi GF,
What is the source for suggesting NAD-83 is the same a WGS-84?
Thanks!
Dick Siano