Preflight Checks for piston engines
 

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone can give me some good preflight checks for GA piston engine aircraft. I'm flying a C172 RG Cutlass II currently, and I've been taught some basic checks by my flying school, i.e check that this hose is secure, that belt etc. Just wondering if there are any other good ones that are not generally taught. A mate of mine suggested, making sure the mags are off and giving the prop a pull through to check each cylinders compression. Any others come to mind?

Cheers J

So how are you measuring the compression, with a calibrated wrist? Just remember, just because the key is off DOESN"T always mean the mags are grounded.

No point in pulling the prop through to check compression. I believe that on some engines that was considered normal, but the reason was to let oil out of the combustion chambers ( Gypsys, Wrights and the like.)

Look to the POH for what to check- which covers all the normal things, or your local flying school/aero club. I reckon anything not in the manual is really the territory of a LAME to be peering into.

if you're doing a "pull through" with the prop on your pre-flight, hopefully the guy/gal who flew the thing before you did a magneto ground wire check/test prior to his/her shut down.
if not, you could be in for a big surprise if things aren't as they should be.

It is not a bad idea to check compression occasionally in the way described above, particularly after a longer winter pause. Sticking valves are not unusual and can be detected that way. Listen for funny noises as well as you move the prop. But you should hear the klick of the mags.

Do it in a way you do not get hurt if the engine catches or backfires. If you are not able to pull the engine through easily because the engine is stronger than you, leave it to the mechanic at the next annual.

check the condition of the exhaust / heating / carb heater / muffler assembly occasionally as leaks can be deadly due to carbon monoxide inhalation.

And keep thy airspeed up! luckily, there are no autothrottle issues in a cutlass!

Yes there is a point, I regularly pull through my engine (90hp) before start - always before the first start of the day when all is cold and quite often otherwise.

What are the advantages? First, if you do it regularly, it is possible to detect a difference in compression between pots. This is not through a "calibrated wrist" but simply because each cylinder can be compared with the previous and following cylinders. You will not find a small difference but a significant loss of compression will be obvious, whereas in flight it may not be noticeable. Second, if you have a stuck valve - or exhaust valve leak - you will hear this through the exhaust as you pull through. You also are likely to hear air moving/hissing within, if you have (say) a broken piston ring. None of these may be detectable either during run-up or static checks, or in normal flight. You will also hear the "click" of the impulse mag(s) as the engine turns.

Furthermore, if you prime before you pull through, you will be "sucking in" a fuel/air charge to each cylinder which makes the work of the starter (whether it be electric or Armstrong) easier, as the start becomes almost immediate, saving cranking the engine before start, which not only wears the starter and engage assembly but also can deplete the battery. Following this procedure, my engine will routinely fire on the first turn with switches ON. If it doesn't, that is usually indicative of another problem, like oiled plug(s).

There are plenty of advantages to a routine manual "pull through" of a small piston engine before start - don't let anyone tell you otherwise - although once you get much above 100hp, the effort required will make it progressively harder work.


JD
:)

Be very wary of the prop QJB,

Its just not worth it remember to accident always happens to the other guy, and guess what you are the other guy to me!

All very fine if you own your own aircraft, and know each tick, click, buzz and rattle and roll intimately. But try that with a flying school aircraft and then write up the various tick,click, buzz and rattle and roll in the maintenance document - and you haven't even flown the plane yet and you can guarantee the flying school will tell you to go fly someone else's banger but not theirs.

The manufacturer's Pilot Information Manual gives you all the minimum required information to operate the aircraft safely and you will notice nowhere does it mention carefully turning the prop to check the compression in each cylinder or priming the engine before hand turning the prop to make starting easier. And never rely entirely on the advice from instructors at any flying school. They may look cool in their pilot suits with bars and wings and big watches but the majority are hardly out of flying school themselves and all they know is what their instructor told them and so on.

Nah... I perform a check on my IO-540-C4B5s every time I fly my Aztec:ok:. Been doing it since I bought my E model in June of 1976. I do it for two reasons.

Make sure there is are no unusual pressures during the pull through, and no unusual grinding from the accessary section.

Thanks for all of the responses, I didn't really mean to create such a controversy with the prop pulling suggestion.

I'm sure that this is correct in some sense, but I don't think its the right attitude, I was more looking for a few tips that the old blokes you see around the place use. You know the old, "don't forget to do this sonny it may just save your life one day". I hear what everyone is saying about the prop pulling, and I don't intend to do it myself unless I've been taught the proper way.

Don't worry I realised some time ago to anything that ANYONE in aviation says with a grain of salt, and to talk up if you think they are wrong.

Many thanks again for all the replies,

J

Well, for anyone doing this, another thing to bear in mind (apart from the whole lethality issue) is don't turn it backwards.
Some vacuum pumps can have the vanes damaged if this is done.

Give the man a cigar:ok::D:ok:. The accessory drive section and components contained there on are designed to rotate in one… and only one direction. You will not cause any harm to the alternator/generator, hydraulic pump, or oil pump… but the vacuum pump??? you can sure hurt that component.

Just do what the checklist says. Cessna knows best.

Had a cutlass with a stuck exhaust valve found by pulling the prop through. There was no mistaking it - no resistance. Engineers flew up and the did the 'old rope trick'.

When pulling props though always ensure:
Mixture is in idle cutoff
Throttle is at low idle
Mags are off
Brakes are on, chocks are in, and preferably tied down as well.
Always, always pull in a manner and from a position that if it starts the prop isn't going to touch you.
No loose clothing (ties etc)

From memory with the 172 RG at TDC the propeller is at a very difficult position - not an aircraft that I'd be in any hurry to hand start.

One engineer I know is very definite about the direction of rotation - always backwards - as a result of having seen someone cut up by a prop.

What you're accomplishing by pulling the propeller through isn't checking compressions or engine function, but removing residual oil from cylinder walls, and exposing yourself to unnecessary hazard. Otherwise, you're not accomplishing anything.

Really? There's something about the temperature of the engine which suggests it's best to do it when cold, or there's any advantage based on cylinder temperature? As stated before, what you're doing is removing residual lubricant on cylinder walls and causing wear, and nothing more. What has horsepower to do with the price of tea in china? Neither the rated horsepower (exactly how much hp is your engine producing when it's not running?) nor the displacement is relevant.

It's possible to detect a difference in compression between cylinders? This is the speech of the layman. Most knowledgeable mechanics understand that engine compression means very little, while most laymen place some degree of stockin it it as a symbol of engine health. Test compression five times and you'll get five different values. Test it hot and cold and you'll get different values. Have two different people test it, and you'll get...everybody say it together...different values. Yet you can do it without a calibrated compression tester, simply pulling the propeller through by hand. Most remarkable.

You can tell if you have an exhaust valve leak by pulling the propeller through by hand? Really? It's time to give up being a private pilot and go become a mechanic, because you're on the edge of a miraculous breakthrough. Sort of like the guys who touch bare wires and profess to know the voltage and amperage to the tenth value.

Further, you're telling us that you can detect by hand what can't be detected during an engine run? Truly amazing, you are. Without test equipment and nothing but magic calibrated fingers, you can detect things with the engine that can't even be detected when it's running. Wow.

You really think you're going to hear a broken piston ring? You really think this will make a change in compression, most of the time? (it won't). You may even subscribe to the myth that piston rings lined up will cause a loss of compression, but the truth is that a broken piston ring, most of the time, will do little more for you than cause excess wear. This is why we use more than one ring.

As far as listening to the impulse coupling, this tells you nothing, and is more akin to examining your handgun by looking down the barrel from the muzzle end...it makes very little sense.

Ah, priming and then moving the propeller by hand...there's a wise move if ever there was one. Putting a fuel charge in the motor and then moving the propeller...places you at even greater risk, and if you do manage to actually get fuel into the cylinder and not draining back down the intake manifold, you're simply using a solvent to wash the remaining fuel off the cylinder walls and further increase wear as you pull the propeller through by hand.

Have you thought this through, at all?

As far as what to look for during the prefligt...the "checklist" is not the be-all and end-all of inspecting your engine. You should touch, tug on, feel, move, inspect, illuminate, and test everything you possibly can during a preflight, and that includes your engine. While you've got access to the engine, either bent down on the ground looking up through the underside of the cowl, or while looking in the oil filler door or dipstick door, use a flashlight and look around. Look for exhaust stains, fluid leaks, components of the engine touching one another (such as hoses touching baffling or the induction manifold) and causing wear, wires that are frayed or bare, fuel stains, loose or disconnected spark plug leads, etc. Make sure your oil filler cap is fully in place, as well as the dipstick. When you drain your fuel sump don't simply let it go on the ground. Catch it, feel it, smell it, inspect it...make sure not only that there's no water, but that it's really the proper fuel. Check the engine mounts and mount assembly for rust, pitting, straightness, and wear. Check for oil leaks, and fuel leaks. Look for shiny areas between cylinder heads indicating a crack or a lifting cylinder head. Check the front crankshaft seal for leakage, and the oil filter adapter (if applicable) for security...it's an AD requiring inspection on every flight, for some aircraft/engines). Verify that the air filter is secure, and check the rigging of the throttle, mixture, and carburetor heat from the cockpit for full travel, no binding.

Inspect the propeller for nicks, scratches, cracks, pitting. Small imperfections in the propeller leading edge or face can lead to cracking and failure; these should be "dressed out" with a file by a qualified mechanic ("engineer"). Check for security. Check the spinner for security. Always run your hands and fingers all over the propeller to feel it. Don't simply look. Check that the distance between the spinner and the engine cowling is the same above and below. You're checking for a drooping engine mount or buckled firewall (common on this airplane from landing hard on the nosewheel). Look for evidence of dirt or grease the cowling, propeller or nosegear. If you find any, determine if it's fresh or old, and if possible, the source. Engines, like airplanes, talk to you with a quiet voice, often warning you with little things of bigger things to come. Get to know the little things and address them before they become the big things.

Check the cowl itself for uniformity, security, and that all fasteners are in place, not loose, and without cracks surrounding the fastener holes or access. Look down the cowl from the front, across the clinders and try to spot tennis shoes, bird nests, or the odd grenade (things that ought not be there)...mechanic's tools, etc. Always be on the lookout for the things you don't find...continuously ask yourself "what is it that I've missed?" and then go find it.

Look on other parts of the airplane for clues as to the engine health. Look at the exhaust stack. Give it a tug, see that it doesn't move. Look at the color of the deposits in the exhaust; this tells you a lot not only about the health of the engine, but also it's care and how it's been operated. Look down the belly to see how much oil is there, and on the windshield to see about oil or other evidence of leakage.

Verify the starter drive (bendix drive) isn't engaged. Look for an alternator belt. Tug on it. Try to hand turn the spark plug lead connectors nearest the cowl entrance; ensure they're tight.

You needn't simply pull out the checklist and follow along blindly. Look at everything; it's all worthy of your attention. Extra time spent scrutinizing the airplane is for your own safety, and for your benefit. Take full advantage.

SNS3Guppy, you are clearly not the expert I might once have thought you were. You are entitled to express an opinion on what I have written, of course - but why in such an aggressive and opinionated manner? I am not going to sink to your level and trade insults.

I stand by what I posted ... and yes, thank you, I have thought it through. Perhaps you should realise that yours is not the only opinion of worth on this forum.


JD
:rolleyes:

Your contribution to the thread is noted, jumbo driver. Now, have you anything worthwhile to contribute?

As long as that doesn't appear to be the case, we might as well address your final salient point before you went off the reservation...

Now I may not be the "expert you once thought I was," but I've spent a lot of time pulling through R985's, R1340's, R2600's, R2800's, R3350's, and R4360's...each of which has just a tad more than "100 hp" (again...the engine has displacement, but produces NO horsepower when it's not running; you understand this, right?). These engines actually have a legitimate reason for pulling through in certain cases, when checking for hydraulic lock...but even in those cases, even when we were all qualified mechanics and "engineers," none of us ever was arrogant enough to assume we could tell the compression or identify internal faults by pulling an engine through.

Limit yourself to 100 hp, you say? As you wish.

I work with a couple of very experienced individuals who have both taken prop strikes to the skull. You keep on rotating that propeller with it's charge of fuel and believing what you will...because after all, you've thought it through. You've no valid reason for it, but again...as you will and as you wish. Best of luck to you and your sub-100 horsepower behemoth. I certainly hope that one day it doesn't bite you in the back.

Used to fly the DH-2 on floats. It has the R-985 Jr Wasp motor attached to the front. Part of our pre-flight procedure was to check for hydraulic locks with the pull of the prop.

Important checklist item for the newbies... remember to take a towel a change of clothes and shoes down to the dock:(. Oh yeah... remember to put your keys and wallet in a neoprene carrier and leave them on the dock before pulling the prop through:mad:. Oh yeah.... Summer time operations are preferable.

Wouldn't fly any other plane on floats in its class:ok:.

There you go again ...

May I remind you this forum is intended to be informative, to discuss facts and offer opinions. It is not the arena for unprovoked personal attacks or ridicule, as you are doing. You are both misrepresenting my views and then rubbishing the result in a highly personal and disdainful manner.

As I have said, I stand by my post and I fully accept that others may hold different views. You may indeed have some experience which is worth bringing to this forum but if you do so in a way that is sarcastic, offensive and personal, rather than informative and objective, you will neither be respected nor be furthering the aims of PPRuNe.

Have a nice day ...


JD
:)

Vacuum Pumps
 

Sorry - it's a myth about not turning the engine backwards by hand: it doesn't harm the carbon vanes. The only way you can damage the vanes is to fit a clockwise-rotating pump onto a counter-clockwise drive (CW - CCW) or vice-versa and then run the engine. I've got a letter to this effect from the Parker-Hannefin Service Department.
Props are routinely rotated backwards during maintenance during magneto timing with no adverse effect.
The quickest way to kill a vacuum pump is to let oil/solvents get onto the vanes.

Jumbodriver, you're still off the reservation. The posts haven't been personal attacks on you. You need to grow up a little, and perhaps realize that everything isn't about you. Considerable information has been presented. If you don't like it, that's tough. If your feelings are hurt, that's tough. You're advocating bad information, and potentially dangerous and damaging information.

Say something dangerous and stupid, you get called on it. It's that simple. If you don't like it...that's just tough.

Perhaps if you have something meaningful to say, you should say it. Perhaps if you have nothing to say but whining about hurt feelings over your own misinterpretations, then you should say nothing. This is a technical forum. You may wish to try to stay on topic. The thread isn't about you, it's about preflighting an engine. Try to keep that in mind.

Well Blackhand must fall into the category of UNknowledgeable mechanic because I understand that compression is very important to piston engine performance ( Health).

With smaller piston engines, both automotive and aircraft, one can feel the relative compressions between cylinders by rotating the engine by hand and feeling the relative effort for each compression stroke. Identifying which cylinder is down is another matter.

Radial engines of course have there own characteristics which would probably prevent one from feeling the compressions, SN3 could probably explain this better than me if he wasn't being so anal.:cool:

Cheers
Blackhand

Well, yes, and no. Certainly solvents or oil or other contamination in the pump is the fastest way to start breaking vanes...which then tend to cause breakage on the other vanes.

Some engines can be rotated backward, and some can't. If one has condensation inside the vacum pump casing and rotates the engine, it can cause vane breakage and pump failure in short order. This is more likely when rotating the wrong direction, but also possible in the event of rotating in the correct direction...solution there is to ensure the engine is preheated first...though moisture in a dry carbon vane pump can still cause pump failure whether it's frozen or not.

Mike Berry wrote a good article on the subject of pumps, a few years ago, which can be read here:

Vacuum Pumps: Wet vs. Dry

Your comments would indicate this to be the case; most people tend to blindly believe that high compression numbers are good, lower compression numbers are bad, and take a fairly generic view toward what compression really is.

Even with a calibrated test set and a qualified technician performing an actual compression test, the values received are highly subjective, and generally not repeatable Compression values go up with time, depending on who's doing the test, and they go down. Point is...actual compression doesn't mean all that much. The engine needs it to run, but the values thereof...don't really mean much.

Hearing someone talk about an engine with references such as "it's got great compressions!" is somewhat like hearing them talk about buying a car by saying "it's got cup holders!" A compression test, again with calibrated equipment being performed by a qualified technician, is still subjective to numerous factors previously discussed. When I perform this test, I'm not nearly so interested in the values as I am to listening to the exhuast, and induction, and crankcase through the oil filler cap, for leaks. I couldn't begin to tell you what's wrong with the engine at that point...it's simply an elementary diagnostic tool that gets me started. To suggest that one could do anything by pulling it through by hand on the line with their magic calibrated fingers is...ridiculous.

You're not going to get this information when turning the prop by hand without pressurizing the cylinders. A compression stroke without the addition of external pressurized air is not adequate to determine or diagnose the problem, certainly not as a pilot pulling the prop through by hand.

Pilots have all kinds of excuses for pulling the propeller through by hand. My favorite, usually passed down from one instructor to student who becomes an instructor and passes it to another student ad nauseam, is "I'm limbering up the engine," or "I'm limbering up the oil." This is of course, a statement of ignorance, as one is doing no such thing. The design of the engine doesn't permit such a thing, and all the actor is really doing is scraping protective lubricant off cylinder walls and other such places (valve stems, etc).

As far as feeling "relative compressions," what is it that magically makes the engine fail by hand that doesn't reveal itself in operation? The engine ran fine on shutdown, but while sitting idle, begins to stick and have other such problems? Ever stop to think that perhaps by pulling it through without adequate pressurized lubrication, you're creating the problems you're trying to find in the first place? We've been told by one offended poster that he learns things by pulling the engine through that can't be found when it's running...a truly amazing concept...as that's the best time to find the problem.

Pulling an engine through to check for hydraulic lock...valid in some cases, but not all...because even in cases where the check is necessary, often the starter motor provides more protection for the engine by employing a clutch...whereas one can bend a rod pulling on the propeller for leverage.

Pulling an engine through to find the compression stroke prior to hand propping...legitimate, though one certainly won't be able to tell the compression of the engine while doing this, or be able to diagnose it.

Pulling an engine through while performing maintenance...also legitimate under the proper circumstance.

Pulling an engine through to limber it up, to magically feel compressions and to hear and diagnose as a pilot on the line...not legitimate, and not very smart, either. Especially with a charge of fuel in the cylinders which can wash off lubricants on the cylinder walls before engine start (when the most wear occurs), cause the engine to fire with greater power inadvertently, leak into the exhaust and cause an exhaust (or induction) fire on start, and which is wasteful.

So far as pulling backward, it's not only a potential issue with accessories like the vacum pump (circumstance and pump dependent), but also with generator brushes, which can be chipped or broken by turning them the wrong way. It can be inappropriate for certain gear trains in accessory drives, or even in propeller reduction drives.

So far as preflighting the engine, again, one should make as thorough an inspection as possible. This includes tugging on everything that can be touched or felt, and considering even small oil leaks for their source. If the "checklist" says "Engine, Check," then this isn't adequate. No law or principle of reason suggests that one should do the bare minimum; check everything. This may include pulling the propeller through...just not for the reason that some enthusiastic, but misinformed posters have advocated.

Mr SNS3 retorted
You are committed to being anal aren't you??
You will find that I am talking about relative compressions, not high verses low.
But then again it is probably not something a boggie pilot would pick up anyway.

Personally I just make sure the compression is above 55 and not leaking from any place that it should not be, thats for lycoming and continental opposed engines, radial engines are your forte - so will not comment.

Cheers
Blackhand

What exactly is a "boggie pilot?"

They are. But then so are horizontally opposed lycomings, continentals, franklins, etc, too. Garrrett/honeywell turboprops, pratt & whitney turboprops, allison turboprops, and garrett/honewell, GE, and pratt turbojets, too...

This isn't really relevant to preflighting a powerplant, per the original poster's request. Perhaps you might stay on track.

boggie = low time

I'm a low time pilot? I guess that's relative, depending on your perspective, and very possibly true...but not really relevant to the conversation. I've got experience on over 70 different types of aircraft at this point as a pilot and a lot more as a mechanic...but that's also not really relevant. Boggie, huh? Do you perchance speak English?

Must be that calibrated wrist of yours that can sense 55 differential psi...without the cylinder having been pressurized, without a gauge or compressor, without a test set. All with your hand as you pull it through, then. You're truly a wonder to behold...yet full of dangerous advice to those who might not know better.

SNS3
You misunderstand, I was talking about when one carries out a differential compression test using the correct tooling - but you knew that did you not?:cool:

QJB

From an old hand, keep up your current practices, your engineer will appreciate that you are interested in your machinery. If you are working your way up the food chain, you will at times find yourself working alone and away from resources.You will need to make decisions based on your own understanding of the machines you are flying

Cheers
Blackhand

.. perhaps we can holster revolvers and move on ?

Look what I have created :E

Bitter experience taught me always to check much more carefully if the aircraft was directly off maintenance; check that no nuts are loose, and wirelocked properly where required; check that any belts are correctly fitted, check that the prop is not on backwards if it's possible to fit it backwards (yes, it's been done), check that all wires are secured properly; in short check everything that a rushed mechanic might have missed or not reassembled correctly, as well as checking what the handbook lists, as you would at all other times.

It follows that you have to be very familiar with what's under the hood, and how it looks when everything's present and correct.

Draw fuel off the water trap until it's clear of water. You need your personal baby food jar for this in your nav bag.

Now that we have gotten the pull the prop through thing off our chest I am going to answer the original post

IMO practical things to look for:

1) What is on the belly of the airplane will tell you alot. Fresh oil that is more than a light smear should be investigated by an AME. This once saved me from taking off in an airplane that had developed a crack in the oil filter and was probably only minuites away from loosing all its engine oil.

2) The exhaust pipe should be checked to make sure it is firm when you give it a shake. If it moves and makes a clunking noise get an engineer as there is likely a cracked /broken exhaust pipe or muffler. Also look nside of the tail pipe (ie the part that sticks out from the cowl). It should have a light coating of grey exhaust residue. If it is oily or covered in thick black soot , get an engineer to look at it. (oily means potential cylinder issues and black soot means a too rich mixture)

3) Check the shimmy dampner a notorious weak spot on light cessnas. If you see any drops of red hydraulic fluid on it than the unit is leaking and will probably not function properly leading to a violent nose wheel shimmy. Again get an engineer to look at it.

pre flight
 

if the flying school can only tell you a few basics and not show you how to do it properly suggest you look at another school, after all if this is the level of knowledge of pre-flights what else are they missing elling you

Cutlass engine inspection - as I recall, you cannot open the cover so your engine check is limited to dip stick at the top, fuel sample at the bottom and feel for the belt behind the prop. For what is worth in the wake of the expert dicussions above, I was taught NEVER try to pull the prop through.

I was taught to sample all 10 under wing fuel drain points (5 each side) as apparently the Cutlass has prior convictions for localised condensate lurking in the tanks. Sounds a lot but it is easy and very quick.

My flying school insisted on dipping the tanks - you need a small ladder, unless your Cutlass has the conversion which entails fitting foot rests to climb up. But I think this applies to all high wing Cessnas(?)

I am not a widely experienced aviator as many posters here are but I grew to LOVE the Cutlass - it has a useful combination of weight limits/fuel which enable some quite long flights, with safe margins. And it cruises at a good pace (yeah,yeah, I know thats all relative...)

The comment on the shimmy above interested me - our Cutlass used to shimmy like merry hell on take off and the AMO never seemed to manage to eliminate it. A bit of yoke back-pressure did the trick when taking off. Never did it on landing (thank goodness!)

Would you believe I know a CFI who owned a Cessna 150 which had severe nosewheel shimmy. Rather than get the defect rectified (costs dollars) he merely dropped the nosewheel tyre pressure until the tyre looked awful flat (12 psi I think) and the shimmy wasn't as bad.

They are all the same - so you will just keep looking, keep looking, keep looking... etc

Cripes, most of the aero clubs/flying schools I went to showed me to look for leaks, hose and cable condition, cooling baffles, engine mounts, HT leads, mag earth leads connected, etc etc...the point is, they were pretty thorough (I thought.) Is that no longer the case these days?

Tarq, we do all those good things on an A/C with an openable engine cover (as far as I am aware) but the Cutlass is screwed closed.

There are many subjects being discussed here that appear to be ripe for testing on "Mythbusters"...

Let's light the touchpaper with an extract from the O-320 powered PA18-150 POH (SuperCub):

"When the engine is cold, prime three to five strokes after turning the fuel valve to the proper tank. Push mixture control to full rich, carburetor heat off, and open throttle about one-eighth of an inch or until the intake of air at the carburetor can be heard when the engine is pulled through by hand. Engine should be pulled through at least four times."

Gosh!

There are many different opinions in aviation surrounding the serviceability checking and operation of aircraft - some of them might even be correct (excluding the manufacturers', of course ;)).

I'm not going to offer any opinions, other than the suggestion that a bit of critical thinking goes a long way when assessing some of the 'lore' that gets quoted sometimes, and to treat any powerplant as something that will burst into life as soon as you're within injury range.

Thank you, FullWings ... I rest my case.

(revolver firmly holstered) ;)


JD
:)