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ppppilot 10th April 2008 19:28

Tcas question
 
Why many models of the TCAS fails when the IR1 fails?

mini-jumbo 10th April 2008 19:30

Could you be more specifc? Which type? What is IR1?

ppppilot 10th April 2008 20:34

IR1 stands for the IR part of the ADIRU #1. I don't know the specific models of TCAS, but must be almost all of them.

mini-jumbo 10th April 2008 20:57

Sorry, I actually meant aircraft type. The ADIRU(s) and associated interface with the TCAS Computer will be dependant on the type of aircraft.

Without knowing which type(s) of aircraft it's difficult to answer.

I would hazard a guess however, that the TCAS Computer is set-up in such a way that it receives inputs from ADIRU #1 and thus if ADIRU #1 was to fail, the TCAS would also fail.

ppppilot 10th April 2008 21:44

The type is irrelevant. What the TCAS uses the Inertial Reference inputs for? Is it for the RA (to know the actual ROC or ROD) either for the intruder position calculation or both?

Admiral346 10th April 2008 21:48

delete delete

Wodrick 10th April 2008 22:24

A320 series, ADIRU input from ADIRU #1 is Mag HDG, Pitch and Roll

mini-jumbo 11th April 2008 07:09


The type is irrelevant


I disagree. Not all aircraft that are fitted with TCAS have an Inertial Reference System.

Also, I imagine, although I don't have any data to hand, that the set-up of a Boeing's Avionics and an Airbus' are miles apart and where TCAS takes the inputs from will differ.

It would seem from the post above regarding the A320, that TCAS takes inputs from ADIRU #1. It would be interesting to know if there is any redundancy where TCAS is concerned. I.e. If ADIRU #1 fails, is the system capable of supplying data to the TCAS Computer from another ADIRU?


If not, then as I said in my previous post, the TCAS system will fail.

ppppilot 11th April 2008 11:45

Thanks MIN-JUMBO.
Everything you said is correct.:ok:
The second part of the question is “Does all the TCAS II needs hdg pitch and roll inputs?”
Pitch, makes sense to me, because when you are in an RA, the pitch input is used to know your vertical status, and compare it with the ROC/ROD proposed to solve the situation. Therefore you can receive a “Climb/Descend”, “Increase rate of descend/climb”, etc. msg.
Hdg and roll seems to be useful in order to know if there is a real risk of collision. In other words, TCAS must know where are you flying to calculate which of the traffics around you, are potential risks.
Not only that. If the IRU doesn’t work then it makes sense that it can not be displayed anything because PFD and ND associated are not working, as far as you don’t change the source of information (IRU).
The source for the hdg, pitch and roll, can vary between ADIRU, HSI, ADC, etc. It is not important to the question till here.
But now going into Airbus and ADIRUs. A318/A319/A320/A321 ATA 3.02.34 page 7. A330/A340 same ATA, page 4A or 5. Abnormal Procedures-Navigation-NAV IR FAULT. There is a note saying “In case of an IR1 fault, the TCAS may be inoperative, depending on the TCAS manufacturer”
In case it were only be affected the RA it should concrete on that fail, but it says all the TCAS and that includes also the traffics display and the TA.
Do that means that many of the TCAS needs hdg, pitch and roll to calculate the position of the traffics?
I thought that position was calculated by means of time of the radio signal to return-àdistance, mode c altitude report-àvertical separation, and directional sensing antenna-à bearing. Then you could have at least the presentation of the sensed traffics in case of not hdg, pitch and roll inputs
ADMIRAL, sorry if I :8was not clear enough.
Tailwinds

Golden Rivet 11th April 2008 14:17

737NG ADIRU supplies pitch/roll attitude and mag heading to the TCAS processor, but it is not currently used.

757/767 IRU's supply mag heading, and again it's not used.

I can only assume the TCAS processor is programmed to look for this data, and if missing, will fail itself.

ppppilot 14th April 2008 18:20

I found this
http://www.halldale.com/Assets/Files...dowski%202.pdf
It is not the answer, but a good aproximation.
Edit to say:
Oooops:8
The correct link is this:
http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/gallery/content/public/documents/ACAS_training_ver20.pdf
The first is interesting like this other one:
http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/public/standard_page/ACAS_Overview.html
ppp


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