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Position/Navigation lights usage
I just get back flying (in Indonesia) and everyone seems have their navigation lights on during broad daylight. I've always known that nav lights are to be used during sunset to sunrise in most regulations even ICAO annex 2.
Are there any changes to this requirements in term of regulation? (Apart from airline policy) |
It might be different in Indonesia but as far as I’m aware, your definition is correct.
I fly for a major Euro carrier. I tend to leave them on because it’s easy to forget to switch them on (E.g. you might do the walkaround in broad daylight and fly into the night). I suppose if I cared a lot, I could switch them off and save the bulbs! |
Several airlines leave position lights on continuously, based on:
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Our SOP is to leave them on at all times.
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Navigation lights are obviously mandatory by night. During the day they aren’t mandatory. How the former is ensured/complied with is up to the aircraft operator and the crew. Simple enough.
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Originally Posted by awair
(Post 11317283)
Obviously, if we’re talking about GA aircraft that have a full power down after flight, this wouldn’t apply.
At all the GA flight schools/rental FBOs I encountered, the SOP (at any time of day) was: nav lights on if the battery was on. To indicate to the outside world, "This aircraft is occupied and 'hot,' and engine start and movement may be imminent." Progressing to: beacon(s) - "engine starting right now!" and optionally, taxi light(s) - "movement starting right now!" And yes, we also flew with the nav lights on, even in daylight. Every little bit helps others "see and avoid." Now it's just habit. I figure the regs are usually just the bare minimum, and it doesn't hurt to over-deliver (except for the really bright lights - strobes and landing lights). |
Easy way to remember lights. Nav lights aways on, all other lights are optional
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NAV lights on when the APU is running or the aircraft is otherwise under electrical power.
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Thank you for the replies guys. Totally understand that there will be many reasons behind different operator's "policies", but I was curious if this nav light on during daylight is a regulatory requirements in any part of the world.
I'm fine when people have their nav lights on during the day, but I was queried by an engineer in Indonesia when I had mine off during the day despite Indonesian CASR clearly says nav light on during sunset to sunrise, which further confuses me. I'm flying the A320, if its powered on by APU, you will hear the APU, no need nav light to tell you. If it runs solely on battery the nav light will probably not be illuminated (aka shed) anyway, so I can't understand the "navlight-indicates-powered-on" argument. ✌️ |
Major Australian carrier, NAV lights only on at night.
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Please, everyone, regardless of your company's SOPs, if the aircraft has power, APU, GPU, or in the case of GA, battery 'ON', leave the Nav/Pos lights on.
It let's everyone know the aircraft is powered, it could be under maintenance, things could move, be cautious. There are numerous ground ops that require power on and its handy for all of them to look out of the office window and know they don't need to call an engineer or ground handler to get power on for cleaning, catering, refuelling etc. Also, and this is a personal bug bear, last flight of the day, you guys are off home/hotel whatever after hard days flying. The rest of us have a job to do and on the Airbus in particular, one of those tasks is checking that both Nav light systems work. So that's two walk rounds. It's really annoying when you're half way round the post flight inspection and someone switches the lights off! Thanking you all in advance. 👍 |
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
(Post 11317819)
NAV lights on at night. Makes no sense during the day as NAV lights are not that visible! But hey, there is a whole new generation out there that see things differently… including NAV lights by day. :uhoh: |
Originally Posted by TURIN
(Post 11317871)
Please, everyone,
It let's everyone know the aircraft is powered, it could be under maintenance, things could move, be cautious. There are numerous ground ops that require power on and its handy for all of them to look out of the office window and know they don't need to call an engineer or ground handler to get power on for cleaning, catering, refuelling etc. Also, and this is a personal bug bear, last flight of the day, you guys are off home/hotel whatever after hard days flying. The rest of us have a job to do and on the Airbus in particular, one of those tasks is checking that both Nav light systems work. So that's two walk rounds. It's really annoying when you're half way round the post flight inspection and someone switches the lights off! Thanking you all in advance. 👍 |
Originally Posted by ok45
(Post 11317692)
I'm flying the A320, if its powered on by APU, you will hear the APU, no need nav light to tell you. If it runs solely on battery the nav light will probably not be illuminated (aka shed) anyway, so I can't understand the "navlight-indicates-powered-on" argument. ✌️ Wearing ear protection or operating noisy machinery such as tugs and loaders: Beacon on - ready for pushback/engine start Nav lights on - aircraft under electrical power |
The FAA AIM 4-3-23 Use of Aircraft Lights (non regulatory) says:
e. Prior to commencing taxi, it is recommended to turn on navigation, position, anti*collision, and logo lights (if equipped). To signal intent to other pilots, consider turning on the taxi light when the aircraft is moving or intending to move on the ground, and turning it off when stopped or yielding to other ground traffic. Strobe lights should not be illuminated during taxi if they will adversely affect the vision of other pilots or ground personnel. f. At the discretion of the pilot*in*command, all exterior lights should be illuminated when taxiing on or across any runway. This increases the conspicuousness of the aircraft to controllers and other pilots approaching to land, taxiing, or crossing the runway. Pilots should comply with any equipment operating limitations and consider the effects of landing and strobe lights on other aircraft in their vicinity. g. When entering the departure runway for takeoff or to “line up and wait,” all lights, except for landing lights, should be illuminated to make the aircraft conspicuous to ATC and other aircraft on approach. Landing lights should be turned on when takeoff clearance is received or when commencing takeoff roll at an airport without an operating control tower. |
Thats awesome! Thank you for the reference. Didn't expect that AIM will recommend so, as FAR 91.209 states night use. Thanks!
Originally Posted by MarcK
(Post 11318098)
The FAA AIM 4-3-23 Use of Aircraft Lights (non regulatory) says:
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Originally Posted by ok45
(Post 11318157)
Thats awesome! Thank you for the reference. Didn't expect that AIM will recommend so, as FAR 91.209 states night use. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by hans brinker
(Post 11318042)
Sorry, but hard NO. Follow SOP. Don't agree with SOP, get them to change them. If that doesn't happen, maybe you're wrong. Either way, asking for people to get into trouble by not following their SOP is not the way.
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Originally Posted by TURIN
(Post 11318194)
Wait, what? You'll get into trouble for leaving Nav lights on? Really!
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My memory may be faulty, but I don't remember having a switch that would turn the nav lights on or off. It the aircraft was powered the nav lights were on. Same as the pitot heat.
I was flying the B757 and MD11. |
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