Yes, that is what tends to happen..Thank you for correcting.
Also now the stars align proper once again. Close call! |
Heels should be on the floor for take off and on landing until initiating manual braking If (and it’s a really big if!) that means you go off the side of the runway on a low speed abort at 30 or 40 knots, that’s totally survivable. On the other hand, inadvertent (differential?) braking at higher speed is a very different scenario. Where do the greater adverse consequences lie? Does any manufacturer recommend ‘feet up’ for take off? I’ve flown five different jet liners from three major manufacturers and I can’t recall it? Or is this just a ‘bright idea’? |
Originally Posted by stilton
(Post 10962124)
Heels should be on the floor for take off and on landing until initiating manual braking
Airbus has a clear opinion of it. Proper modern pedals can be designed for a safe feet up takeoffs. |
Originally Posted by stilton
(Post 10962124)
This again,
Are there any operators out there who encourage this dubious practice ? Heels should be on the floor for take off and on landing until initiating manual braking |
Does any manufacturer recommend ‘feet up’ for take off? I’ve flown five different jet liners from three major manufacturers and I can’t recall it? Or is this just a ‘bright idea’? I have also flown five airliners and three of them wide bodies including 747 but that doesn't mean anything. Everyone has his comfort blanket. FAA document Pilot Guide to Take off Safety in para 3.2.6.5 says the following: "The pilot’s foot position relative to the rudder pedal can also have an effect on the achievement off full brake pressure. It was noted during a study conducted by the Training Aid Working Group that foot position during the takeoff roll tends to be an individual preference. Some pilots prefer to have their feet "up on the pedals” to be ready to apply full brakes if required. Pilots who prefer this technique also noted that their toes are“curled back” to avoid unwanted brake applications when applying rudder. The other technique is to rest the heels on the floor during the takeoff roll, and then raise them to be on the pedal to apply full braking. No problems were noted with either technique." on a slippery runway in 747 classic where nose wheel is not connected to the rudder if outer engine fails you cannot stop excursion unless rudder and differential braking is simultaneously applied. If you can do it with feet on ground then good for you. as far as landing is concerned if you are an Airbus pilot then listen to Airbus Win APPROACH AND LANDING PROCEDURES AND TRAINING RECOMMENDATIONS. At about 7:47 he categorically stated "steer with heels and brake with toe." |
How many 747 classics are still in operation worldwide? A non steerable nose wheel sounds about as relevant to this discussion as a non steerable tailwheel?
inadvertant (and unwanted) brake operation is not possible with heels on the floor. That’s where the greater consequences lie as the aircraft accelerates and/or up to full rudder may be required. (AFTER landing is of course a totally different situation!) However we are all trained to apply our own braking during a rejected take-off at speeds below activation of RTO auto brake function. It’s not difficult to slide your feet up at low speed. Thank you for confirming no manufacturer or regulator recommends your personally favoured technique for take off. I believe there is a difference here between Boeing and Airbus? I have flown both products, though more B than A. |
Thank you for confirming no manufacturer or regulator recommends your personally favoured technique for take off. |
I’m surprised to have to admit, I can’t find anywhere that ‘recommends’ heels on the floor! 😳
I’m also scratching my head to recall what I did during my 6 years on A319/320/321? The more I think about it, maybe I did fly those take offs with feet up??? But I’m absolutely certain I never did that in the many years spent on any of the three Boeing types I’ve flown! Nor on the other jetliner I flew. Maybe the difference is purely down to pedal design? Though even Airbus themselves express no specific recommendation. However in general, my personal preference would be heels down, as I believe the greater consequence is inadvertent (differential?) braking at high speed, or inadvertent disabling of RTO autobrake extending the reject distance. (Both of which I have seen.) Presumably purely to combat a possible low speed runway excursion. All of the above being hypothetical of course. I see this is a discussion you have been involved in previously. As I said. My opinion only. Clearly not yours. |
Originally Posted by 4468
(Post 10962592)
I’m surprised to have to admit, I can’t find anywhere that ‘recommends’ heels on the floor! 😳
I’m also scratching my head to recall what I did during my 6 years on A319/320/321? The more I think about it, maybe I did fly those take offs with feet up??? But I’m absolutely certain I never did that in the many years spent on any of the three Boeing types I’ve flown! Nor on the other jetliner I flew. Maybe the difference is purely down to pedal design? Though even Airbus themselves express no specific recommendation. However in general, my personal preference would be heels down, as I believe the greater consequence is inadvertent (differential?) braking at high speed, or inadvertent disabling of RTO autobrake extending the reject distance. (Both of which I have seen.) Purely to combat a low speed runway excursion. All of the above being hypothetical of course. I see this is a discussion you have been involved in previously. |
4468 : I did the A330 course with Airbus at Toulouse in 1994 and then the instructors were of "the heels on the floor" method.
|
This
I’m surprised to have to admit, I can’t find anywhere that ‘recommends’ heels on the floor! Thank you for confirming no manufacturer or regulator recommends your personally favoured technique for take off. |
Boeing Chief Pilot of special projects Jerry Whites and Vmcg tests on the 747 Dreamlifter at 27:27. Interesting life test pilots, first time he stalled a 777 ended up inverted.
|
Originally Posted by 4468
(Post 10962592)
I’m surprised to have to admit, I can’t find anywhere that ‘recommends’ heels on the floor! 😳
I’m also scratching my head to recall what I did during my 6 years on A319/320/321? The more I think about it, maybe I did fly those take offs with feet up??? But I’m absolutely certain I never did that in the many years spent on any of the three Boeing types I’ve flown! Nor on the other jetliner I flew. Maybe the difference is purely down to pedal design? Though even Airbus themselves express no specific recommendation. However in general, my personal preference would be heels down, as I believe the greater consequence is inadvertent (differential?) braking at high speed, or inadvertent disabling of RTO autobrake extending the reject distance. (Both of which I have seen.) Presumably purely to combat a possible low speed runway excursion. All of the above being hypothetical of course. I see this is a discussion you have been involved in previously. As I said. My opinion only. Clearly not yours. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 18:19. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.