Originally Posted by Deltasierra010
(Post 10913505)
Hydrogen is not “energy dense” liquid hydrogen needs 5 times the volume to match jet fuel, moreover it needs to be compressed and refrigerated, less of a problem at 30,000 ft but critical on the ground, we are highly unlikely to see airliners fueled by hydrogen.
Biofuel (probably based on algae) is a far more viable long-term solution than H2 - with the added advantage that it would work with today's aircraft... |
Hydrogen fuels can be reformed into many different fuels, for Aviation weight and volume are critical, when land transport is fully non fossil fueled liquid fuels will still be used for Aviation, unless some yet unknown technology is discovered. Safety is a different matter, it is not possible to segregate passengers and compressed fuel in an airline, any fault would destroy the whole thing so either you accept that risk or forget it.
Limited range light aircraft have possibilities either Battery powered or Fuel Cell electric, wether that is within the price range of recreational pilots is another matter |
@tdracer, "...with a massive fuel tank in between".
Could that not be two medium-sized tanks, or even four little 'uns? Granted that you waste space between the cylinders, and you face interchangeability problems. |
Originally Posted by ericoides
(Post 10913002)
Whatever they come up with, as well as being carbon neutral, it must satisfy two criteria:
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By energy dense, I'm referring to the potential energy per kg compared to Jet A-1, this is not related to volume.
Relative energy densities |
Originally Posted by Momoe
(Post 10914277)
By energy dense, I'm referring to the potential energy per kg compared to Jet A-1, this is not related to volume.
Relative energy densities But then there would be no point, you could have used the electricity directly, or store it in batteries, current technology is moving that way, not hydrogen. We need a quantum leap in technology for hydrogen to be more efficient. |
We need a quantum leap in battery technology before any big commercial airplane can fly with electrical battery power. This view is undisputed within the industry and this is the reason why big manufacturers look elsewhere likte at hydrogen.
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Battery power is out for large long range jets, it’s going to be hydrogen based that’s for sure but not compressed gas, the technology we have now has been around for many decades we need something new, that’s for batteries as well as hydrogen
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Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 10913679)
So what you're going to end up with is a massive H2 tank in the middle of the fuselage - which needs to have fail-safe segregation from passengers and crew.
Biofuel (probably based on algae) is a far more viable long-term solution than H2 - with the added advantage that it would work with today's aircraft... |
One major advantage that hydrogen has over batteries is that you are not carrying the full weight of the reactants around with you. You carry the hydrogen (which gets consumed throughout the flight) but you don’t need to carry the oxygen as it is in the air through which you fly. A battery must carry all reactants throughout the flight and what’s more, will weigh just as much on landing.
Over a decade ago I was lectured on the exciting possibility of storing hydrogen in a “carbon sponge” which went some way to alleviating the fears of explosion of hydrogen tanks in a car accident. I haven’t since heard much on this technology! |
With a battery aircraft every landing is overweight.
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Not if you take off from a hilltop aerodrome using a ground-based battery-powered catapult, and release used batteries along the way, which then self-glide to collection points.
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix
(Post 10914920)
Not if you take off from a hilltop aerodrome using a ground-based battery-powered catapult, and release used batteries along the way, which then self-glide to collection points.
About 33 minutes into this video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_6SxcO-fHEU |
Originally Posted by TURIN
(Post 10914930)
The turbo pumps are electrically driven
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Originally Posted by flypaddy
(Post 10914893)
Over a decade ago I was lectured on the exciting possibility of storing hydrogen in a “carbon sponge” which went some way to alleviating the fears of explosion of hydrogen tanks in a car accident. I haven’t since heard much on this technology!
Something I didn't mention previously - liquid H2 has another problem: The cryogenic temperatures involved are very hard on the materials used. This means a massive maintenance burden to keep the system working properly and safely. Rocket engines and the associated hardware (pumps, etc.) only operate for minutes, then are either discarded or rebuilt before they are used again - not a practical solution for an aircraft that is expected to operate eight or more hours a day, every day, for years... |
So if you put AI and hydrogen together, which revolutionizes which?
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Originally Posted by TURIN
(Post 10912645)
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Originally Posted by Ex Cargo Clown
(Post 10916667)
Pretty sure combusting methane creates CO2
Being 'carbon neutral' doesn't have to mean moving away from hydrocarbon fuels - it just means you need to re-think how you source them. Given the inefficiencies inherent in using H2 as fuel, I remain far from convinced it's a better solution than 'manufacturing' hydrocarbon fuels. |
Whatever the fuel of the future for air transport is it wont be liquid hydrogen, far too dangerous, technically difficult and expensive. Maybe Ethanol or some other liquid synthetic fuel but that is way in the future, as land transport moves to electric there will be ample fossil fuel for aviation for at least 50 yrs and probably way into the next century.
Until there is a quantum leap in hydrogen technology it will remain the holy grail of energy. |
They may have to take out the chemtrails tanks to fit the H2 tanks.
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