Why uses RA instead of DH in ILS CAT 2 approach ?
Below is LOWW ILS 29 chart.
When shooting ILS 29 CAT 2 approach, we need to insert 97' as decision height in RADIO entry field of APPR panel in FMS, but, why don't we insert 100', which is DH, in stead of the RA 97' ? I mean what regulation (FAR, AIM, or ICAO something, whatever ) stands for that ? I've looked for it couples days but can't find it, and people just say "If there's RA, you insert RA, not DH, in the RADIO ". The RA xxx' only shows in CAT 2. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6d4f2e8584.jpg LOWW ILS 29 chart |
The CAT 2 minimum is measured by the radio altimeter. As you are typically not above concrete runway surface yet when passing through 100 ft DH your charting provider has to calculate the RA minimum considering the (possibly uneven) terrain contour in front of the runway threshold. Depending on whether it is higher/lower than the runway threshold elevation it will show a RA value lower/higher than the DH.
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And to give an extreme example have a look at the Luton (EGGW) Cat2 minima
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why don't we insert 100', which is DH, in stead of the RA 97' ? I mean what regulation (FAR, AIM, or ICAO something, whatever ) stands for that ? Edit: EASA (part SPA) "The operator shall only conduct CAT II operations if the DH is determined by means of a radio altimeter" |
Originally Posted by deltahotel
(Post 10858079)
And to give an extreme example have a look at the Luton (EGGW) Cat2 minima
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66 - I asume you accept DA(H) as OCH? In that case, in the example given for LOWW, do you set 97 RA or 100?
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"You should use RA for Cat II, so 97 ft.". But 97 is less than 100, is it not? Lost's example has RA > DA(H).
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Originally Posted by 42go
(Post 10858497)
66 - I asume you accept DA(H) as OCH? In that case, in the example given for LOWW, do you set 97 RA or 100?
At the point where you reach the DH, 97Ft RA, you will be 100Ft above the landing runway. (There is obviously a 3ft difference in the height of the ground at that point to the end of the runway, ARTE) I hope that helps |
Originally Posted by 42go
(Post 10858831)
"You should use RA for Cat II, so 97 ft.". But 97 is less than 100, is it not? Lost's example has RA > DA(H).
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Roj - "At the point where you reach the DH, 97Ft RA, you will be 100Ft above the landing runway. (There is obviously a 3ft difference in the height of the ground at that point to the end of the runway, ARTE)
I hope that helps" Not really - slightly irrelevant? It disregards the wording quoted by 66. I repeat, with emphasis: A Category 2 decision height must be identified by reference to radio altitude and must not be less than 100ft arte or the OCH What do you reckon the OCH is? |
So, your 'quoted quote' is not legally binding, then? Un-confuse me.
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Originally Posted by 42go
(Post 10859210)
Roj - "At the point where you reach the DH, 97Ft RA, you will be 100Ft above the landing runway. (There is obviously a 3ft difference in the height of the ground at that point to the end of the runway, ARTE)
I hope that helps" Not really - slightly irrelevant? It disregards the wording quoted by 66. I repeat, with emphasis: A Category 2 decision height must be identified by reference to radio altitude and must not be less than 100ft arte or the OCH What do you reckon the OCH is? |
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Thanks, Sepp - at least you understood.
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Baro. alt. has a greater variation in true altitude, compared to rad. alt. The closer proximity to the ground for Cat II compared to Cat I means the approach design is predicated on the more accurate vertical positioning provided by rad. alt.
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Many thanks all replies above !!
but my question just derives from the EASA regulation: "The operator shall only conduct CAT II operations if the DH is determined by means of a radio altimeter" Same words are in CAT 3 (as below), so the words can't solve my question. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....870c99927e.jpg CAT 3 regulations in EASA According to the LOWW ILS 29 chart, there are 3 numbers depicted in CAT 2: 1. RA 97' 2. DA 700' 3. DH 100' We know how the RA 97' comes from ( just as mentioned above), and DA 700' is advisory only which is applicable in some exceptional cases, but, how about the DH100' ? Why can't we setup 100' in FMS radio altitude field then rely on radio altimeter callout ? If I do that, do I violate any regulation, expectation or something? fail in checkride ? <-- This is my real question. Initially I thought it is about provider's legend, because there's no mention about RA 97' in LOWW's officially chart. https://eaip.austrocontrol.at/lo/200..._24-6-4_en.pdf https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a5d02a7851.jpg LOWW 29 profile and minimums ( It also shows another question about the OCH for Category C in CAT 2 is 91' some guy mentions above. ) So I check the JEPPESEN's legend, but only get the words "Radio Altimeter height, associated with CAT 2 precision approaches". That's all, no mention about what I'm looking for like "RA numbers are prior to DH numbers" or "DH numbers in the chart is nothing if RA numbers are published" at all. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c3cd906d8d.jpg Jeppesen's label about DA(H) and RA Then I google it, and find the story why RA numbers depicted in CAT 2 approach chart. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....95b6b5760f.jpg FAA recommendation document 1/2 https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....03295e45c0.jpg FAA recommendation document 2/2 ==== I summarize my finding and question: In old time, CAT 2 approach uses radio altimeter and the associated DH depicted in the chart, but since the format is easy to confuse pilot to use DA, men in FAA suggest to change CAT 2 minima depiction to what we see now, a RA XX' been added. Here is my question: The DH is still depicted in the chart, not been erased, so if no regulation mentions which has priority, or DH is advisory only, or something like that, how can we say RA is prior to DH to been used ? EASA regulation says only DH, never RA. PS. My company's manuals quote the words "DH is determined by radio altimeter" only, no mention about RA. But some peaky checkman could ask me this question someday. |
According to the LOWW ILS 29 chart, there are 3 numbers for CAT 2: 1. RA 97' 2. DA 700' 3. DH 100' My company's manuals quote the words "DH is determined by radio altimeter" only, no mention about RA. |
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