|
777 FLCH getting stall protection
Along with some other modes.....
Older planes in fleet...... Note: The autothrottle will not automatically activate to support stall protection when the pitch mode is FLCH SPD or TO/GA. Note: The autothrottle will not support stall protection when the A/T mode is HOLD. Note: During a descent in VNAV SPD with the autothrottle armed and not active, the autothrottle can automatically activate in HOLD mode and will not advance thrust levers to support stall protection. Newer planes in fleet..... If the pitch mode is FLCH SPD, VNAV SPD, or VNAV PTH and A/T is in HOLD or THR mode, and speed decreases into the amber band, the A/T will change from HOLD to THR mode. Thrust will increase proportional to amount speed has decreased into the amber band. If the pitch mode is TOGA during takeoff, and the A/T is in HOLD mode, and thrust has been manually set below the TO thrust reference, and a low speed condition is encountered, then the A/T mode will change from HOLD to THR REF and will advance thrust towards the selected TO thrust reference while airspeed is within 10 kts of stick shaker speed. Note: During a descent in VNAV SPD or FLCH SPD with the autothrottle armed and not active, the autothrottle automatically activates in THR mode and advances thrust to a throttle position corresponding to the relative distance speed has decreased into the amber band so that if speed continues to decrease, thrust will reach the CLB thrust limit as stick shaker is activated. |
So is this a Boeing admission that this feature contributed to accidents or incidents ? A positive view is ‘well done’ Boeing for improving a weak system to enhance safety. The tacit recognition of the difficulties arising from human factors and the need to change system design opposed to ‘retrain’ pilots. |
A positive view is ‘well done’ Boeing for improving a weak system to enhance safety. |
Originally Posted by PEI_3721
(Post 10459729)
So is this a Boeing admission that this feature contributed to accidents or incidents ? A positive view is ‘well done’ Boeing for improving a weak system to enhance safety. The tacit recognition of the difficulties arising from human factors and the need to change system design opposed to ‘retrain’ pilots. |
Check Airman, ? Specifics ? So how are the risks with the existing inservice 777 systems to be managed. Reliance on the fallible human and hope for the best. |
The tacit recognition of the difficulties arising from human factors and the need to change system design opposed to ‘retrain’ pilots. Maui, suck it up! :} |
Now if only Airbus would follow... |
Originally Posted by dctPub
(Post 10460291)
What are you talking about. The VNAV descents are miles ahead on the 777 than the 330/320 with their ridiculous level segments.
|
10+ years Boeing 9+ years Airbus I can say that the Boeing was way simpler and easier..... |
Originally Posted by dctPub
(Post 10460291)
What are you talking about. The VNAV descents are miles ahead on the 777 than the 330/320 with their ridiculous level segments.
|
Any one of you actually flown a 787 VNAV descent? (I admit not having flown a 777, maybe that is better than the 787). The 787 one is ****e probably because it's a straight port of the 777 one. I.e. Boeing, in what now appears to be a habit, has failed to update the logic which tells VNAV that the 787 is a much more slippery aircraft. This is basic, absolute BASIC QA and in over 5 years of operation, Boeing have not dealt with the issue despite it being reported by numerous airlines. Says a lot really.
|
Originally Posted by vilas
(Post 10460267)
Check Airman what exactly you feel airbus should change to? Alfa floor is available in all modes.
As to the FINAL APP logic, yes, it's stupid with the level segments. I read on the Honeywell or Thales site that the A330 fmc has an update where it will fly a constant descent using the geometric path used for the rest of the descent. They don't seem to be interested in putting that in the 320 though. |
Originally Posted by Smooth Airperator
(Post 10460515)
Any one of you actually flown a 787 VNAV descent? (I admit not having flown a 777, maybe that is better than the 787). The 787 one is ****e probably because it's a straight port of the 777 one. I.e. Boeing, in what now appears to be a habit, has failed to update the logic which tells VNAV that the 787 is a much more slippery aircraft.
|
Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret
(Post 10460598)
^^yes. What he said. 787 VNAV descent = "DRAG REQUIRED".
|
I have taken to starting the stopwatch at top of drop and accepting bets on how long before we get the drag required message. Often it’s less than two minutes. Some clever F/Os I fly with alter the anti-ice on altitude in the descent winds page of the FMC which allegedly helps but I haven’t worked out how that actually works. Sorry for he thread drift |
PROF is King! ;):ok:
|
Originally Posted by vilas
(Post 10460267)
Check Airman what exactly you feel airbus should change to? Alfa floor is available in all modes.
|
Originally Posted by Check Airman
(Post 10460534)
As to the FINAL APP logic, yes, it's stupid with the level segments. I read on the Honeywell or Thales site that the A330 fmc has an update where it will fly a constant descent using the geometric path used for the rest of the descent. They don't seem to be interested in putting that in the 320 though.
|
Originally Posted by Denti
(Post 10472784)
It is a customer option for the A320 as well. As so much these days is. There are some of those options that not many airlines choose, like this one, or FLS for example.
|
Options Must Be Standard!
Originally Posted by Check Airman
(Post 10460534)
Not speaking specifically about stall protection. Airbus does a pretty good job at that. As much as I like the plane, I still feel that the uncoupled sidesticks and stationary thrust levers are design flaws. Granted, that's harder to fix than the FLCH logic on the 777. Unfortunately, if they didn't admit that after AF447, they probably never will.
As to the FINAL APP logic, yes, it's stupid with the level segments. I read on the Honeywell or Thales site that the A330 fmc has an update where it will fly a constant descent using the geometric path used for the rest of the descent. They don't seem to be interested in putting that in the 320 though. I am sure that airlines and manufacturers in the wake of the Max tragedies will rethink their "Profits Foremost, Savings First, Safety Last" policy. It is an absolute scandal that contrived "options" are tantamount to safety being optional. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 19:10. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.