A320 CDFA LNAV NAV/FPA
Good day fellow A320 pilots, I have my type rating only for a short while, during training we did early stabilized approaches for NPA’s. Hence I would be level at the FDP altitude configure then at 1NM from FDP I’d set the FPA required and at 0.3NM from the FDP I’d pull FPA. My airline recommends we do CDFA and decelerated approaches. So I usually descend in vertical speed to the FAP then for an ILS or fully managed NPA with FINAL APPROACH I’d arm the approach mode when cleared. However with a NAV FPA approach descending with vertical speed to FDP at what distance would I turn FPV on and select the FPA for the approach. Regards |
Laterally managed and vertically selected requires TRK-FPA ON only after FAF. Before that you may use v/s at your convenience.
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Originally Posted by iggy
(Post 10399162)
Laterally managed and vertically selected requires TRK-FPA ON only after FAF. Before that you may use v/s at your convenience.
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Originally Posted by migueloliv
(Post 10398972)
Good day fellow A320 pilots, I have my type rating only for a short while, during training we did early stabilized approaches for NPA’s. Hence I would be level at the FDP altitude configure then at 1NM from FDP I’d set the FPA required and at 0.3NM from the FDP I’d pull FPA. My airline recommends we do CDFA and decelerated approaches. So I usually descend in vertical speed to the FAP then for an ILS or fully managed NPA with FINAL APPROACH I’d arm the approach mode when cleared. However with a NAV FPA approach descending with vertical speed to FDP at what distance would I turn FPV on and select the FPA for the approach. Regards do not confuse a CDFA with a constant descent with no intermediate level offs. A CDFA stands for Continuous Descent Final Approach and, as the name suggests, it starts at the FAF and it means that You will fly down to the minima with a constant angle and no level offs in between (that is the opposite, for example, of flying the so called "dive and drive" where You plunge to the minima straight from the FAF and wait for the MAPt), which is basically what You always do in both managed and selected approaches. If You are making Your way down to the FAF in V/S just switch to TRK/FPA 1 NM before it so that You will be fine to pull Your FPA 0.3 NM before. Consider also that in those circumstances leading You to fly a NPA in NAV/FPA, You may well allow Yourself to fly levelled a couple of miles before the FAF in order to grant the early stabilisation (that is SOPs for example for several operators). |
Originally Posted by migueloliv
(Post 10398972)
Good day fellow A320 pilots, I have my type rating only for a short while, during training we did early stabilized approaches for NPA’s. Hence I would be level at the FDP altitude configure then at 1NM from FDP I’d set the FPA required and at 0.3NM from the FDP I’d pull FPA. My airline recommends we do CDFA and decelerated approaches. So I usually descend in vertical speed to the FAP then for an ILS or fully managed NPA with FINAL APPROACH I’d arm the approach mode when cleared. However with a NAV FPA approach descending with vertical speed to FDP at what distance would I turn FPV on and select the FPA for the approach. Regards |
Originally Posted by sonicbum
(Post 10399242)
Hi,
do not confuse a CDFA with a constant descent with no intermediate level offs. A CDFA stands for Continuous Descent Final Approach and, as the name suggests, it starts at the FAF and it means that You will fly down to the minima with a constant angle and no level offs in between (that is the opposite, for example, of flying the so called "dive and drive" where You plunge to the minima straight from the FAF and wait for the MAPt), which is basically what You always do in both managed and selected approaches. If You are making Your way down to the FAF in V/S just switch to TRK/FPA 1 NM before it so that You will be fine to pull Your FPA 0.3 NM before. Consider also that in those circumstances leading You to fly a NPA in NAV/FPA, You may well allow Yourself to fly levelled a couple of miles before the FAF in order to grant the early stabilisation (that is SOPs for example for several operators). |
Originally Posted by Black Pudding
(Post 10399270)
If you’re planning doing a fully managed approach, you would not need to set from v/s to fpa, there is no need, just arm the approach. |
migueloliv There are no guidelines for your case, you just need to try.
My suggestion - Tweak the V/S so that you are happy with the vertical path. Once you have a final setting that will take you to FAF: switch the bird on immediately. Personally, I never learned to use 0,8 deg FPA, 2,1 or 1,3. Even seeing the arrow does not help focus the brain, I just seem to need -1000 / -700 / -500 / -300 fpm. Enjoy the aeroplane. Judging by the choice of the question the Borg's got you. :E |
Originally Posted by migueloliv
(Post 10399276)
From what I understand what my airline wants is that we fly a constant descend to FAF from TOC using V/S to control our descent rate and never leveling off. Then a decelerated approach (so no level flight a couple of miles before). If I’m descending in V/S and press the FPV won’t the aircraft revert to a equivalent FPA of my current V/S? In that case would I still turn on the FPV 1 mile before then at 0.3 id just turn the FPA knob? it is perfectly normal that Your operator wants You to fly a constant descent to Your FAF and the procedure thereafter. In the vast majority of circumstances You will fly NPAs "ILS alike", meaning with FINAL APP guidance. In those other situations where NAV-FPA or TRK-FPA is required, You will also need to fly an early stabilised approach, meaning that You will need to be fully configured by the FAF. The combination of selected vertical guidance and the aircraft configuration "usually" suggests to have a small level segment, but of course it is not mandatory as per Your Operator policies. In that case, as mentioned by another poster, it is basically up to you on when You will switch to TRK/FPA guidance as long as You're ready to "pull" by the .3 NM. |
Originally Posted by sonicbum
(Post 10399377)
Hi miguel,
it is perfectly normal that Your operator wants You to fly a constant descent to Your FAF and the procedure thereafter. In the vast majority of circumstances You will fly NPAs "ILS alike", meaning with FINAL APP guidance. In those other situations where NAV-FPA or TRK-FPA is required, You will also need to fly an early stabilised approach, meaning that You will need to be fully configured by the FAF. The combination of selected vertical guidance and the aircraft configuration "usually" suggests to have a small level segment, but of course it is not mandatory as per Your Operator policies. In that case, as mentioned by another poster, it is basically up to you on when You will switch to TRK/FPA guidance as long as You're ready to "pull" by the .3 NM. |
Originally Posted by sonicbum
(Post 10399377)
You're ready to "pull" by the .3 NM.
Because in Miguel's scenario he's already in an active vertical mode, the advice above does not apply. You can change the reference to FPA any time, even at 10000 or higher. My personal technique for the profile they demand is in the previous message. What is also perfectly doable, is to keep V/S even a little longer, past the FAF. No benefit at all in doing so but no harm done either. @migueloliv:As long as you know which trajectory you want and where the aircraft is, you will be fine. Take any reference you need to keep the task as easy as possible - that is correct use of automation and cockpit resources (evaluation item). Inevitably, at one point you want FPA instead of V/S. The guidance to do 1 / 0.3 NM, from your type rating course - assumes you are closing to FAF in ALT mode - has a technical reasons behind each of the values. Neither of which applies for your question. |
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
(Post 10399686)
The advance pull is required to exit ALT mode to FPA or V/S timely enough so that through inertia and automation lag the aircraft wouldn't start descending late - the actual trajectory.
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Originally Posted by Cak
(Post 10399562)
There is absolutely no requirement from Airbus to fly an early stabilized approach for those approaches. It's only recommendation :) |
Originally Posted by sonicbum
(Post 10399752)
That is why I have written "pull" in inverted commas.
For your second question on decellerated 2D approaches: within strict and limited RoE: absolutely yes. |
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
(Post 10400029)
You got me confused either way then - the gentleman already has a active selected vertical mode, he does not need to “pull anything?
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
(Post 10400029)
For your second question on decellerated 2D approaches: within strict and limited RoE: absolutely yes. |
I am glad you asked what those rules of engagement are.
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I should know better than to argue about this one on the internet, but here goes: You want to fly a temperature corrected NPA in NAV-FPA. The FDP is at 2000’ (2100’ temp corrected) at 4.7NM from threshold. Elevation 900’ . You are at 15NM at 5760’ descending -400fpm. Please explain to me how you can intercept and maintain the 3.1 deg path without ever leveling off,while decelerating and configuring at the same time. |
Originally Posted by migueloliv
(Post 10399294)
The question I made was based on flying an LNAV in NAV/FPA. For example in case of temperature corrections I wouldn’t be able to arm approach mode and fly a VNAV below the chart compensated temperature. |
Originally Posted by Radu Poenaru
(Post 10400174)
Please explain to me how you can intercept and maintain the 3.1 deg path without ever leveling off,while decelerating and configuring at the same time. second in the FCOM it talked about the 75ft on the V/DEV if you are below you have to go around. For LNAV I can’t find any vertical limits. So is it again 75ft(3/4 dot) or something else? |
Originally Posted by migueloliv
(Post 10400464)
[…]I find it impossible to intercept the path perfectly while descending, decelerating and configuring at the same time. How much more elegant would it be to level off 1 NM before the FDP, calmly call “ALT” ask for flaps 3 and select TRK/FPA and -3.1deg. Then when PM says “descent point” pull the FPA and ask for full flaps(or slightly before). Already on profile. Which pilot would you like to fly with? |
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