Computers need to know what they are doing
Computers know how to do things but don't know what they are doing.
If you want the computer to know what is happening then it seems to me that all it really needs to be able to do is to run a simulation in real time with current conditions and look ahead to see what is going to happen so it can take the appropriate action. I think Google self-driving cars do exactly that. (As do our own brains) No it will not be omniscient. No it will not be infallible. No it will not replace the pilot. But it will be much smarter. Anybody that thinks that smarter computers is a bad thing has rocks in their head. Some of the recent airplane crashes would have been prevented if the computer had simply been able to look ahead and see what was going to happen Google patent: https://www.google.com/patents/US9248834 |
What would a computer have done on the IGS approach to kai tak?
What would a computer do when the spacing on final gets tight? What would a computer do at 200ft if it gets a report of possible windshear? What would a computer do if low on fuel and an aircraft crossed the hold short line, but was not actually on the runway surface? There are lots of examples in day-to-day operations where the default computer response, or airline SOP would be the less safe course of action. You can't program for everything. What you're talking about is artificial intelligence. We're quite a bit away from that in an airplane. A car can pull over to the side if something doesn't compute. We don't have that luxury. |
All of those are perfect examples of why the computer needs to be able to run a simulation in real time with current conditions and look ahead to see what is going to happen so it can take the appropriate action.
And if it cant do anything else then it can at the very least alert the pilot Do you really think the computer can't figure out that if it only has enough gas for one last attempt at Landing that it must land no matter what? I should think that would be very easy for it to figure out |
There are lots of examples in day-to-day operations where the default computer response, or airline SOP would be the less safe course of action. You can't program for everything. |
The key is for the computer to be able to run a simulation and see not just what is happening but also what is about to happen and what actions can be taken to steer events in a desirable direction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_processing_unit |
Read what the patent is all about: Detecting motion and assessing possible outcomes based on likely scenarios. The computer can only choose from scenarios that are programmed into it.
There are several examples of such computer behavior in airplanes today: TCAS, EGPWS, Predictive WindShear. In all of these, however, the final step - actually taking the corrective action - is left to the pilot. Adding an interface to the autopilot and autothrottles would be a straightforward step IF the regulators wanted to place that much trust in the computer algorithms. |
The computer can only choose from scenarios that are programmed into it. See: https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20010207-0 edit. "The cause of the accident was the activation of the angle of attack protection system which, under a particular combination of vertical gusts and windshear and the simultaneous actions of both crew members on the sidesticks, not considered in the design, prevented the aeroplane from pitching up and flaring during the landing." Airbus FBY Normal Law computers don't allow the pilot to over ride them. (B777 & B787 FBY computers do permit the pilot to over ride them) |
There are several examples of such computer behavior in airplanes today: TCAS, EGPWS, Predictive WindShear. Compute what the probable state of the airplane will be every 100 meters down the length of the runway. Determine if any of those states are problematic. Determine what actions need to be taken to avoid any difficult situation. The human pilot will always be better than the computer at certain tasks. But the computer will always be better than the human pilot at certain other tasks |
The human pilot will always be better than the computer at certain tasks. But the computer will always be better than the human pilot at certain other tasks Ever had the EGPWS go off in cruise at FL350? How about a defective radio altimeter triggering a configuration warning on approach? What would your computer do? |
Computers, as we know them today are great at doing repetitive tasks and monitoring. Decision-making, no so much.
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not to beat a dead horse but that's exactly why they need to know what they are doing and that's why it needs to be able to run a simulation in real time with current conditions and look ahead to see what is going to happen so it can take the appropriate action.
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Neither approach - human pilot nor computer pilot - will ever be 100% reliable. However, humans can think and react to situations that the computer programmers never thought of or allowed for.
I think the question we need to ask is why do you want computers to fly our aircraft? Well humans cause crashes you might reply. Well sometimes, (but so do badly programmed computers or computers that have lost their power supply when the fuse/CB trips). The real problem is that us pilots:- Are working longer and longer duties. Are receiving less and less basic handling instruction and practice. Are working earlier or later in the day/night. Are working in high stress phases of flight during the WOCL.* Are flying in busier and busier airspace with fewer and fewer ATCOs. Are more stressed because of the downward pressure on salaries and the effects that has on our family life. Are seeing worse terms and conditions year on year. Why is all this happening? To save money. Oh right - so are we all getting better and better salaries, year on year then? No, quite the reverse. Meanwhile somebody somewhere is making big profits out of us, but it is not us, and pilots and passengers alike are suffering because of it. I love technology, but I am first and foremost a pilot. I like having computers to help me fly and manage the flight (FMGC, automatic cabin pressurisation, fuel trimming, efficiency predictions, Autolands etc) but I don't think it would be safe or sensible to replace pilots with computers. Give us better training, more handling practice, and remove the unecessary daily stressors in modern flying, even if that means adding £10 to every ticket. * Window of circadian low: 0200-0559 hours local time. |
I am not suggesting that the computer should replace the pilot. I am suggesting that the computer should be smarter. Maybe replace the first officer. Then again maybe not.
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Originally Posted by Check Airman
(Post 9475192)
That's why we build computers with only so much authority now, and the ability to turn them off if necessary. With TCAS, EGPWS etc, they advise the pilot, and it's left to him to take final action.
Nope. EASA certifies new "Autopilot/Flight Director" TCAS mode for A380 | Airbus Press release
Originally Posted by Check Airman
(Post 9475192)
Ever had the EGPWS go off in cruise at FL350?
Problem solved. Next? |
1. I'm aware of that option. It's imperfect. My company management explained why they decided against the option after a company aircraft was involved in an incident. Having an automatic AP RA would have caused a collision. In any event, the re button is still there.
2. How do you account for mountainous terrain above 20,000ft, incorrect altimeter setting or a defective altimeter? |
I am not suggesting that the computer should replace the pilot. I am suggesting that the computer should be smarter. Maybe replace the first officer. Then again maybe not. Why do you want to only have one pilot? There can be only one reason - to save money. Why do you want to save money? Will you receive the extra profits or get cheaper air travel? Is that sensible? |
Yes there are two pilots but only one is flying the plane at any given time
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Originally Posted by em3ry
(Post 9474989)
Computers know how to do things but don't know what they are doing.
If you want the computer to know what is happening then it seems to me that all it really needs to be able to do is to run a simulation and look ahead to see what is going to happen. I think Google self-driving cars do exactly that. (As do our own brains) Some of the recent airplane crashes would have been prevented if the computer had simply been able to look ahead and see what was going to happen Google patent: https://www.google.com/patents/US9248834 In research, aircraft have been able to forecast their touchdown time at destination to within 5 seconds at the time weight came off wheels for a 2 hour flight 'knowing' their trajectory for the entire flight.. The more complex the requirement the more extended the development of the computer system required and the more exhaustive the testing. The more safety related the computer function, say dealing with common and less common failure modes. the more certification testing is required. All these are expensive. So it is has been easier for the system and software development project to assume that as there is always a qualified pilot, each time the computation becomes difficult for whatever reason - sound an alarm and "you have control" Now it is being found that 'qualified pilot' may on occasion be an overstatement for many even 'routine' contingencies. At the same time computers are getting significantly more powerful and for that matter analyst/programmers much better. As with all things aviation whether we like it or not the arbiter is cost. As soon as wetware pilots are more expensive than the automation that appears just as capable, they will be replaced by automation. |
Just wonderful, em3ry.
Simulation? The rules, algorithms, and such will be written by humans. The computer will operate on signals provided by remote instrumentation. The output will go to a screen that we hope has not gone blue. You want redundancy? Go for 2 or 3 independent parallel systems; they can then out-vote the human pilot. This is a metaphor for central planning, is it not? |
Originally Posted by Check Airman
(Post 9475197)
Computers, as we know them today are great at doing repetitive tasks and monitoring. Decision-making, no so much.
These days, fr'instance, some 75% or so of trading of financial instruments on the major financial exchanges (USA, UK, Japan, Germany, etc) is done by "computers" (automated trading systems) and their "decision-making". And, interestingly enough, no calls from anyone to get rid of the computers and bring back the jackets, the shouting and the paper pads. One aviation example that I've worked on is lost-contact recovery in ASW, where the system ("computer") does indeed project forward in time to see what might happen and then make a "decision" based on future possible outcomes. Now, there is the occasional operator whose skill and intuition is "better" at times, but the system will - for the greatest part - outperform the human. And when it's not just one system, but cooperative systems with serious informational flows, the humans just cannot compete. . |
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