Parallel landing at SFO
 

How does this work?

https://youtu.be/LEE35V5m98Y

Edit: Notice the split scimitar winglets!

I think they take advantage of the fact that parallel lines never meet.

It's known as a PRM approach. Google will help you out.

Somewhat doubt it..but anyway when I've been involved in these specifically at SFO one, or more usually both the aircraft involved have been on a visual approach with no magenta line/ILS/breakout frequencies required....

It's not rocket science, it's a use of basic pilot s***, sadly often long forgotten in the rush to codify everything and label it with an acronym. In short ATC say "fella, it's a nice day, look out the window, fly your aircraft accurately and land on your assigned runway, keeping an eye on the guy on your left/right". Simples.....

The slightly more complex answer is as DR has said, down to parallel lines... Usually how it works at SFO if they are landing to the west is that one aircraft flies a right hand traffic pattern, e.g. flying over San Francisco Bay bay for right turns to a visual approach onto 28 Right, the other traffic will fly a left hand traffic pattern coming in from the south for 28 Left (Google earth might help you visualise this if you are not familiar with the geography).

ATC "caution" you about the other traffic then let you get on with it..it's quite entertaining when you are pointing at each other on base leg....above all the really big thing to remember is not to fly through your centreline...:ooh:

Almost proper flying and it can make for a fun end to a long haul day out....

Never been to SFO, but it happens quite frequently at other airports like DEN and ATL. The runways at SFO do seem to be a bit closer together though. No special briefing required, other than "don't overshoot the turn to final".

Sounds fun! Where do I sign up? :)

What do you do with the TCAS in that situation? Put it in TA?

Now I've watched the video...the lead landed long! :}

Folks,
Funnily enough, parallel simultaneous approaches have been the norm at KSFO since the place was built --- that is a long time ago.
Separation is fundamentally handled by the LOTW system, apparently unknown to many Australian pilots.

As you do (SOPs -- aircraft/equipment/airline operator) in any area of high density traffic in the approach/departure area.

Funnily enough, some regard it as normal operations to cooperate with ATC, and arrange their operations to vacate the runway in minimum time. When you have 10,000+ to play with, and it can safely be accommodated, a "normal" touchdown at the threshold is not necessary, aiming to a displaced threshold is not unknown.

That was indeed an Ops manual requirement when we first got TCAS, but that was subsequently amended out and we leave it in RA. It's a while since i've done a close parallel visual there but we didn't get any TCAS alerts/warnings last time. Improved software?

Thanks Wiggy.

Slow news day in Australia, Leddie? Trawling the international forums looking for an opportunity to rip in to Aussie pilots, I see...
I'd rather a practising pilot at SFO like Wiggy answer, thanks all the same for your blindingly obvious non-answer. :rolleyes:

Private joke that you wouldn't understand, Leddee... :rolleyes:

I apologise to the wider audience for the apparent vitriol; what are quite reasonable questions are often answered by LedSled in the manner above on the Aussie forums. Disappointing it spills over into Techlog. Spoils the whole Prune thing, really...

In SFO they separate you by 1000ft until you report your traffic for the other runway in sight. Then you get the clearance for a visual approach with the remark:"Do not overtake" (if you are the follower).

We leave TCAS in RA.

Folks,
I note the nasty little tail in Bloggs last post. If I said black was black, he would argue it was white ---- this is a matter of long history.

I rather suspect that if he actually ever operated in US, he would blow a foofle valve, having long battled against any introduction of the US approach to Australian aviation, particularly US airspace and traffic management. He "knows" it won't work !! The fact that it does demonstrably work, and work well, at much greater traffic levels than Australia, is no more than a trifling and inconvenient fact.

Unlike him, I have operated through KSFO (and many other places in US) since long before TCAS was even invented, needless to say, including parallel approaches at KSFO, as P1 in aircraft varying in gross weight from 1600kg through to 398,000 kg.

As to RA v. TA, for many years my then employer, a major international carrier, recommended as per the manufacturer (in my case, Boeing) and the avionics manufacturer, TA in terminal areas, but left the final decision up to the Captain of the aircraft.

In the current operations, in which I have some involvement, we follow the same practice, leave the final decision up to the suitably informed and experienced Captain.

As I said... :rolleyes:

Thanks LW20. That looks like it would be huge fun. Oops! Wash mouth out CB... :ok:

There's a new wrinkle - the Airbus Autopilot/Flight Director TCAS RA mode. If AP is engaged, and an RA occurs, the AP automatically performs whatever maneuver is directed by TCAS. So for places where "unwanted RA's" might occur, the only option to prevent unwanted disruption of the terminal area operation is for the pilot to select TA-only beforehand. Already approved on A380, and soon, if not already on A350 and as an option on A320 series.

At our company, the Captain may select TA when operating on closely spaced, non PRM approaches, when noted by company produced airport information pages, unit malfunction or directed by checklist.

When operating in TA (at least on our aircraft) the ND will only display nearby aircraft when a TA is generated, for the period of time the TA is active, after which it returns to not displaying any nearby aircraft.

Is this the experience of others reading this thread?

Sorry, I understand how CSPR works, but the runways are only 750 feet apart, so it seems the ac should not be parallel..

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/wp-c...5/Untitled.jpg

any these pairs? just seems too close...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/...42_634x358.jpg

test message to see if the admins delete it (again). Be careful what you post here. If the admins don't like it, expect it to vanish.

The two aircraft pictures in your post #16 likely are in exactly the positions your diagram shows. Diagonally separated, not side-by-side.

Look at your diagram. Extend the |----1.5----| lines down and to the left about 15 lengths. That's about where the planespotter was when he made the picture, with a massive telephoto/telecopic lens from a ~45° angle**, that compressed the actual separation.

** note you can see both the front of the wings and sides of the fuselages - thus the picture was not taken directly from the side nor from directly ahead, but from 45° to the flight paths.

When SFO is VMC, they do parallel visual approaches all the time. They will even turn in a 747 from left base to 28L to parallel a 777 straight-in to 28R.

I see the Goooogle Earth pic of SFO has an A380 up the clacker of a tiddler, deliberately I assume.