How is that relevant to being able to see the 15m centerline lights before accelerating past 60kts? Which is what Rudderthing was using to justify not needing to meet the legal lighting requirements for a LVTO.

Once you've rejected a take off you're not taking off anymore, are you?!

Spandex,

My problem is you saying you have to taxi down a runway first to see a centre line light before you commence takeoff.

A blazing set of Cat3 touchdown lights is superior to just 15m centre lights. We need the 15m centre lights because for some part of the takeoff you will use them. That's why they are needed as a basic minimum. Let me put it another way. Where in EU-OPS does it say you must commence the takeoff from the first 15m centre light ? It says you commence takeoff when you have established a visual cue of 90 m

Do you always use the legally required red stop end lights on a every night takeoff ? No. but must you have them because its a legal requirement yes. Do you always use the standby power system for the ILS ? No. but must you have it because its a legal requirement yes.

You base your performance on a formally declared TODA which is based on particular published holding points. In many cases that has nothing to do with the beginning of the runway threshold hence you would bust your performance with no way to recalculate.

You know when people jump in halfway through a conversation and make an arse of themselves...

Well dear Rudderthing wasn't talking about a rejected take off was he. Which is why I said, and I quote, "your 60kts thing".

You understand the difference between accelerating to 60kts and decelerating to 60kts I hope.

8
Hang on, where are the touch down lights in relation to the displaced threshold? You need the 15m lights and the 90m visual segment and etc.. Not just one, or two or whatever you feel like. Where in EUOPS does it say you only need the 90m segment?

It's called EFB. Runway shortening XXXm from the beginning or the end. Calculate.

Just quoting this post as it's easier than cut and paste.

Where does it say you only need to meet one of these requirements?

John, go and read the thread again paying particular attention to Rudderthings posts. That is the 60kts thing I am referring to. We are NOT talking about RTOs.

Never mind, I'll quote it for you and highlight the relevant bit.

Thanks for your contribution though:ok:

Touchdown lights continue up to 3000 ft after the threshold on a cat2/3 runway !

Yes you have to have 15m lights on the runway and working. Where does it say you have to establish the 90m visual only with the use of 15m centre line lighting ?

At what point did I suggest removing any of those requirements ?

So now you are going to manually adjust your EFB outside the declared holding point distances in LVP's are you.

Seriously John, thanks.

So Rudderthing, doesn't have relevant RVRs OR the legal lighting requirements if he's starting from the beginning of the threshold as there are no RVRs reported until the TDZ. :=

Yep, the displaced threshold. If you're starting your roll from the beginning of the Tarmac then you haven't even got touch down lights have you?

It doesn't say that. It says that you need both.

Not sure what you mean by outside? Obviously we use the worst case.

and you do have both for the 4th time !

15m centre line lights plus a 90m segment. They don't turn the centre line lights off because I used the touchdown lights to ascertain the 90m visual do they ?.

Cat2/3 approach lights on a displaced threshold are also set at 30m barretts. So no difference is there

You only have both by the time you've gone 400m, in the case of 08R at least. You think it's acceptable to be charging off for quarter of a mile without relevant RVRs AND lighting when you can only see 90m? And you can't tell me you can see the correct lights through 400m of fog either, how'd you know they're even working?!

Barrett's aren't centerline lights though are they?

Well even if you do your strange taxi how do you know there working at the midpoint or stop end ?

barretts are an acceptable means of establishing a 90 m visual segment. You need to see 3 of them. There lights just like your centre line lights. Used for runway navigation. Are you aware of the famous cases of aircraft lining up on the runway edge lights thinking they were the centre lights. Never happened when visual with the approach/touchdown lights. You stick to your legal minimum philosophy and I'll stick to mine.

and when did I say you you could go without relevant RVR's

I think it's safe to assume that if you can see that the lights are working then they're working.

Yes you can measure 90m with Barrett's but they still don't meet the 15m spacing requirement do they?

Where are the the RVRs reported? TDZ, MID, STOPEND. Wheres your RVR report for the displaced threshold?

Are you for real ?

How is 3 x 30 different to 6 x 15. Either you have 90m or you don't.

Touchdown RVR is catered for by the specific LVP holding points approved by the authority for LVP departures irrespective of displaced threshold. If that threshold was to be a problem the affected holding point wouldn't have been approved for runway line up in the first place.